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now, I had always been giving 4+ cover from shooting through terrain and ruins. But in the terrain and cover save rules it says that you must be WITHIN ruins to gain a 4+ cover, and that the base save is a 5+. does this mean you only get a 5+ cover no matter what is being shot through as nothing states you get a 4+ cover other than being within ruins.

Some cover saves are based on being "in" terrain (to use the old terminology, 'area terrain'), whilst others refer to being "in cover behind".
The first sort give cover saves regardless of whether the model is obscured. To receive the second kind, the model must be at least 25% obscured.
This means a model outside of ruins, but obscured by it will only receive a 5+ save, whilst a model obscured by a Defense Line will receive a 4+ save.
Refer to each individual terrain Dataslate / debris type for a more comprehensive list.

There's no rule iirc that states shooting through terrain gives a cover save. At that point you would use TLOS to determine cover saves. There's no set number, except the 25% rule.

Lungpickle wrote:
There's no rule iirc that states shooting through terrain gives a cover save. At that point you would use TLOS to determine cover saves. There's no set number, except the 25% rule.

This.

Only 25% obscured would be granting a 5+ Cover save, as per the Cover saves Rules in the Shooting phase section.

I agree with most content here except saying that it is definitely a 5+ save if you are 25% obscured but outside ruins.

The description of "Barricades and walls" says anything in cover behind them gets a 4+ cover save. If the obscuring terrain is a wall in the ruin (as opposed to say rubble or debris) then I would give a 4+.

fiftyvolts wrote:
I agree with most content here except saying that it is definitely a 5+ save if you are 25% obscured but outside ruins.

The description of "Barricades and walls" says anything in cover behind them gets a 4+ cover save. If the obscuring terrain is a wall in the ruin (as opposed to say rubble or debris) then I would give a 4+.

Barricades and Walls are a terrain type. Ruins are an entirely different terrain type. You cannot conflate the two. If you are in cover behind ruins you are in cover behind ruins, if you are in cover behind a "barricade and/or Wall" then. Once piece of terrain does not give you both types of cover.

I don't see anywhere that it says that a piece of terrain can only have one description. There are also examples of terrain having multiple components. Also there is some separation between ruins (in the terrain types section) and walls (in the battlefield debris section following it).

If you want to say that ruins are some how not made of walls and rubble and are something different then that's how you'd play it (which is fine with me if you are clear about it before the game starts).

Personally I look at ruins as a description of pieces that are in a single footprint. Each component might be it's own piece of battlefield debris as well. You have to make a "data sheet" for any custom terrain anyway so it seems reasonable that something that looks like a wall acts like wall terrain even when it is also in a ruins foot print.

Also I need to correct my statement above. Rubble also gives a 4+ cover.

Chanceafs and Fiftyvolts,
The only correct answer to which cover save is granted by being obscured behind the terrain in question is always 'what does the Datasheet state?' Should the Terrains Datasheet contain a Rule stating that the gain a 4+ Cover for being behind the terrain in question, then the terrain in question will grant a 4+ Cover Save. If the Terrain Datasheet in question is completely silent on the matter then it does not meet the 'unless otherwise stated' clause in the original Determining Cover Save rule. This would mean that the cover save is 5+ at that time, regardless if it states there is something different for being 'in' because that is always noted separate for the bonus for being 'behind.'