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Like the title reads, I am interested in opinions concerning which of these takes the cake. I am more interested in having one of these to round out my Marines. I like the Forgeworld models much better so there is always that, but I am wondering which one rules wise brings the most.

For me I am hung up a bit because I love that the standard IK's have heavy stubbers allowing them to shoot one thing and charge another, problem is their primary weapons are hit or miss and I am thinking you want to run more often then shoot, am I wrong here? The Cerastus knights can run 3d6 which meand you in their deployment zone turn one.

Another criteria I am looking at is ironically is how effective they are against other knights. The old arms race conundrum. I like that the lancer gets +1 I on the charge and its shield confers a 5++ and -1 to hit it if it's a superheavy or gargantuan MC. Has anyone had much luck with one of these?

Then there is the infantry issue, the castigator obviously wins here, I just think it auto loses against other knights in assault. So why bother I guess?

Thoughts? I have no experience with these other then trying to kill them

What is its role? To hunt other shvs? Bully tanks? Fight hordes/large blobs? Shoot marines with templates?

 Crazyterran wrote:
What is its role? To hunt other shvs? Bully tanks? Fight hordes/large blobs? Shoot marines with templates?

Fair questions, my list is being revamped but I generally run a good number of tacs in tanks, thunderfires, shield bikemaster, a storm talon and then whatever toys I can fit. My biggest concern in the list is killing AV14 and other knights. I can play around and avoid knights easily enough, but certain senarios can really take advantage to that weakness.

The Castigator is better at melee than the other knights due to its special rules(despite only being Str10 instead of D)

Its also the only knight capable of attacking aircraft reliably. The Lancer can as well, but its not as good in melee and it has less shots.

The Lancer is good at taking on other super heavy walkers in melee and its got anti-tank shooting.

The Paladin and Errant are basic all rounders that are also cheaper.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Castigator is better at melee than the other knights due to its special rules(despite only being Str10 instead of D)

Its also the only knight capable of attacking aircraft reliably. The Lancer can as well, but its not as good in melee and it has less shots.

The Lancer is good at taking on other super heavy walkers in melee and its got anti-tank shooting.

The Paladin and Errant are basic all rounders that are also cheaper.

The biggest perk to running one knight in a marine army IMHO is defence against other knights. The castigator dies hopelessly to any other imperial knight, while inflicting minimal damage. I think its amazing in a knight army or in adamantium lance, but I just don't see it providing the protection it should for my army.

Sadly I think the bog standard IK is probably my best option. Being able to engage multiple enemies a turn while deterring other knights is big. I just love the speed and durability of the lancer I guess, not to mention the model

if your needing heavy tank fire, why not the errant? that huge melta cannon can help out quite a bit against av14.


or the paladin with it's rapid-fire template.

FYI the forgeworld knights have to be taken as LoW if you just want to take 1 knight. So I am assuming you are playing with a LoW slot open?

Honestly I think that they each fulfill their roles in the correct army. If you were playing a melta heavy salamander army, etc. then the castigator would be great.

It sounds like you need something to face down other knights? The lancer is great in an army that pushes forward aggressively as the lancer is useless outside the lances range. The lancer is actually a little less survivable overall than the standard knight as it cannot shift the shield so as to defend against DS melta, etc.

The standard knight is the most flexible and tends to make the best TAC lists. It can stand back if needed and score an objective as it shoots the rapid fire battle cannon or push forward and take an objective. There are very few things that can survive in melee range of a standard imperial knight and those you can always focus on with the rest of the army.

All three models are very nice looking but the forgeworld ones are just incredible.

The Errant is the best IK currently available, with the best weapons load for its role.

Paladins are a bit unfocused in comparison to the Errant, in that Paladins have longer range which encourages avoiding CC, more shots which encourages staying at range for more CC avoidance, and no real ranged Anti-Tank which means it has to get into CC on a platform that avoids CC. And it costs more than the Errant.

Lancers introduce an Anti-Superheavy role and weapons load that acts as a more focused Errant, at the expense of secondary weaponry that allows Errants and Paladins to maximize their weapons by shooting at multiple targets before charging one; Lancers can only charge the one unit they shot at, which limits its effectiveness despite being better at CC. Yet, Lancers can shoot at Flyers with an expectation to at least strip 1 HP off or force a grounding test.

Castigators brings an awesomely awkward set of rules for CC that makes them better at killing hordes and monsters then a Lancer, with a better range weapon than a Lancer, yet still no secondary weapon(s) like the Lancer, and no D-Weapon beyond its Death-Kaboom, all for just over the cost of a Paladin. Not too bad, not too good, probably somewhere in the middle.

If only we could mix and match weapon options on our standard IKs!!!!!!!

So, in conclusion, if you have a specific role in mind, select for that role. If you do not have a specific role in mind, the Errant is both the best and the cheapest, with Grenatius an Uber-Errant for those time you just want to dominate a table side with complete disregard to your opponents attempts to wrestle control back.

SJ

So which Knight would you guys field in a Grey Knight army? As I see it, my areas of weakness are as follows...

1. Terminator equivalents: Lack of AP2 in volume is rough for GK against the wrong list.

2. High AV (AV14 cracking): Just not enough shots to do the work at length, meaning lots of hammers and such need to get up close to do their work.

3. Anti-Air. I almost feel I have to take a Storm Raven every time I play. It serves this roll well enough, and helps a bit with #2 as well, but it feels like a mandatory include, as is my SOLE option which sucks if my opponent fields 2-3 flyers of their own.

I am thinking the Errant is the best for my TAC Grey Knights, and is even another durable body to help with objectives, but have to say the Castigator having some anti-air alone makes him tempting.

I like the paladin as a TAC knight unit. He is probably the least specialized of all the knights, which actually makes him the most flexible to use as well.

However, if your concern is in using him against other knights, then I'd go with the Lancer.

Do you actually need anti-air? Just because the enemy brings a flyer doesn't mean you have to try to bring it down.

Mavnas wrote:Do you actually need anti-air? Just because the enemy brings a flyer doesn't mean you have to try to bring it down.

IMO some effort at AA is necessary if you want to win 5+ games in a row. You can win without it against even complete air cav but being able to kill even 1 of the 6 night scythes your opponent has can be the difference in winning or loosing. Dedicated AA is however often unnecessary as TL high RoF weapons are often good enough. The lancer and castigator also benefits from being able to get in behind the flyer for rear armour and some TL love helps too.

jy2 wrote:I like the paladin as a TAC knight unit. He is probably the least specialized of all the knights, which actually makes him the most flexible to use as well.

However, if your concern is in using him against other knights, then I'd go with the Lancer.

I totally agree the flexibility of the paladin is great for a TAC list. Sometimes you want to sit back for 2-3 turns before you commit and get into melee range.

The errant is very good anti tank and anti Sv2+ however to be effective anti tank (the most common need) it needs to close within 18"...that is usually where the melta equipped fire dragons are

The lancer is definitely the anti super heavy boss. He will lay a pimp slapping almost as bad you do when Frankie asks you for a game

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:So which Knight would you guys field in a Grey Knight army? As I see it, my areas of weakness are as follows...

1. Terminator equivalents: Lack of AP2 in volume is rough for GK against the wrong list.

2. High AV (AV14 cracking): Just not enough shots to do the work at length, meaning lots of hammers and such need to get up close to do their work.

3. Anti-Air. I almost feel I have to take a Storm Raven every time I play. It serves this roll well enough, and helps a bit with #2 as well, but it feels like a mandatory include, as is my SOLE option which sucks if my opponent fields 2-3 flyers of their own.

I am thinking the Errant is the best for my TAC Grey Knights, and is even another durable body to help with objectives, but have to say the Castigator having some anti-air alone makes him tempting.

Errant would be a good fit as the stormraven is a pretty decent addition to a GK list. A lancer could also be really good in a GK list as you are likely dropping your entire army in the opponent's face turn 1 anyways so the lancer will have plenty of support. It would also look awesome with his little dreadknight brothers acting as hunting dogs roaming the table.

Well for me I want a solution for other knights. they are getting extremely popular and the two solutions are ignore them, which I have and can do except it gets boring. Or you need a way to muscle through them, for me taking one and praying it at the very least kills theirs when it does is a crap shoot IMHO. I like that the lancer can easily dominate another knight, as well as having swift stride. I think people over look the mobility a bit. Running on 3 dice is an 11" on average added to its 12" move and max deployment and he is in their face turn one.

I also like that lancer can take on multiple knights. Its not easy by any stretch but you'd be hard pressed fitiing in a solution to 2-3 knights in a TAC list with only 400 points.

I think I will proxy out a few rounds, I have a scratch built IK but have my eye on the lancer. Seriously awesome model!

I don't feel that GKs actually have as much trouble with Knights as other codices.

With a couple Hammers in each squad you can easily destroy Knights in melee. And Sanctuary makes the Melta cannon bounce off.

Or you can roll Telepathy with your Lvl3 Librarian and lol as you put out Invisibility.

I'm running Gerantius right now in my 2000pt list. Haven't played with him all that often, but he seems like he is pretty good on paper. An Imperial Knight that can challenge out characters and stomp whatever is left? With a 3++ and IWND? And also has the +1 BS And WS? (The ability to reroll 1s on the stomp table is also worth noting, and the ability to run and shoot)

It's essentially paying 130 extra points to ally in a Knight Errant Warlord who got 6 on the IK table + extra goodies.

Are rules for the castigator avaible yet?