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That's right, its an idea I have been tinkering with. Since the Praetorian guard hail from a planet based on Britannia during the age of colonization, AND the fact that they are located near Bakka, an Imperial Naval Base, I think it stands to reason that the Praetorian population would send a chink of their young men and women to serve on the naval ships.
Now my idea is that when a Praetorian Guard officer finds himself in need of reinforcements and there isn't any backup coming from other areas of a conflict, he might requisition the Naval Captain or admiral for a detatchment of Imperial Marines to assist in combat.
For the models I was thinking of using straight up anglo-zulu war British troopers painted with blue jackets and white trousers, as well as a white or khaki pith helmet. And to accompany the INM into battle I am gonna include a squad or two of Valkyrie born kilted badasses to assist.

The IG has no authority to requisition anything from the Imperial Navy. They are two entirely separate, distinct organizations. The Navy moves the IG from planet to planet and, as an entirely separate function, provides space-to-ground and air support. They also provide the Imperium's military might in space.

However, since the time of the Heresy, they have been kept separate. This means that a rebelling Guard Regiment(s) are trapped on the planet they're sitting on, which makes it easier for the punitive expedition to dispose of them.

So, fluff-wise, I suppose the guy could ask, but it's not likely that the Navy will respond to the request. Naval forces are not intended for ground deployment (and, in fact, lack most of the equipment they would need to do so) and are under no compunction to give a Guard Commander troops.

Remember that the security forces on most IN vessels are ratings armed with flamers and shotguns. On some ships, they wear heavy boarding armor that offers a lot of protection on the front, and almost nothing on the back. Their weapons are designed for fighting in the hallways of a space-ship, so they use weapons with low-penetration, area-of-effect profiles. Obviously, you don't want to shoot out a window while you're in space.

Something tells me they don't have too many "windows" on a spacecraft that aren't made of something of similar durability to the rest of the hull. After all, whatever viewing ports a spacecraft has have to retain the same internal pressure. The Shuttle Orbiter, for example, had triple paned "windows" each designed for a different purpose (heat absorption on the outermost, pressure differential on the innermost). Despite the movies often showing them "blown out", that was Hollywood depicting viewer expectations, because they were one of the more durable parts of the orbiter. Anything that boarders, or defenders, were firing that would punch out a "window" is probably going to punch holes in the bulkheads too.

I'm guessing they use a lot of "screens" as opposed to actual viewports anyway since they are military vessels and having unarmored weak points seems foolish.

But yeah, there's no way a Guard Commander tells a Naval Commander what to do. He's cargo.

Something tells me they don't have too many "windows" on a spacecraft that aren't made of something of similar durability to the rest of the hull. After all, whatever viewing ports a spacecraft has have to retain the same internal pressure. The Shuttle Orbiter, for example, had triple paned "windows" each designed for a different purpose (heat absorption on the outermost, pressure differential on the innermost). Despite the movies often showing them "blown out", that was Hollywood depicting viewer expectations, because they were one of the more durable parts of the orbiter. Anything that boarders, or defenders, were firing that would punch out a "window" is probably going to punch holes in the bulkheads too.

Pretty sure those giant stained-glass windows in the ship's chapel wouldn't stand up to, say, a krak missile or a lascannon too well.

Also, we're talking about ships that are potentially thousands of years old. In the Imperium. While Im sure there's a lot of viewscreens on the bridge, they still haul the cannons to the gun-ports by hand (or, rather, by hundreds of dudes pulling on ropes and chains), so I'm not so sure that they *don't* have a pressurized glass window on the outside.

Also important, you don't want to fire a lascannon through an interior bulkhead and hit those massive plasma-pipes on the other side of the wall.

So, let me see if I get what your telling me: Shut the f up and do some more homework on the matter?
Honestly, I was just trying to mix it up a bit by trying to explain why Praetorian guardsmen would be wearing blue coats and white trousers instead of the blazing red and blue, so I went and investigated into the anglo-zulu war (Which is what the majority of the Praetorian fluff is based LOOSELY on) and found hey, Royal Navy Detatchments, that could be cool in 40k, some IN ground forces. I have a hard time believing that the Imperial navy doesn't have some form of space to ground force, who's purpose is to retake spaceports if they arrive at a planet under siege or something


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Also, It's nice to hear neither of you complain about the idea of kilted troopers droping out of a valkryie, which is what I was more worried people would chew me out about



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I have a solution: MAYBE my guys are on the ground defending IN assets: Ammo dumps/refueling posts for atmospheric flyers, comms stations, even an LZ for picking up and delivering supplies

Also, maybe they had to make an emergency landing, OR they were the first guys on the scene and where to only ones who could do anything to help out
Do any of these sound likely, or am I looking to get another put down about trying to make IN ground forces?

Well, this is the Background forum, where things are generally discussed from a perspective of what does and doesn't match the fluff.

They're your models, paint them however the feth you want.

They might wear Blue and White because, why the feth not?

have a hard time believing that the Imperial navy doesn't have some form of space to ground force, who's purpose is to retake spaceports if they arrive at a planet under siege or something

The Imperial Guard.

Naval Security Teams... I could see them being deployed to bodyguard a ground spotter, which the Navy have been known to use.

Being British, I love any British influences in 40K, I intend to set up a Napoleonic British Infantry themed IG force sometime myself - when I find the time and money

I have to say, in the few British styled 40k armies I have seen, I have no idea why everybody leans towards the Highland regiments as their 'elite' troops? (Being a Northerner, I have a solemn duty to say something disparaging about those 'skirt wearing Jocks' anyway, but I'm glad they're with us! ) I'm not saying they aren't elite or incredibly proficient soldiers (They really are!), but I just question why people always go for them in particular. Most of our regular regiments have unique traditions going back well over 300 years. Historically, the Highland Regiments have gained a reputation for being formidable fighters and are some of the best soldiers we have, but there are other English, Welsh and Irish regiments that have just as impressive records and have accrued many honours over the centuries.

Just a suggestion, but I'd abandon the idea of any Highland Theme - from any historical sense, it really doesn't fit with the 'Navy' theme. I'd compose your force mainly of 'armsmen' in a colour of your choice (Blue would probably fit with the Royal Navy aspect of this) and then use a Royal Marine theme for your elites (Red Jackets, Black Headgear, White trousers etc.) My reason for this suggestion (Don't feel you must go down this route!) is that the Naval Brigade (Informal temporary term - not an official unit) was largely composed of naval ratings and officers - the actual crews of the ships. However they were supplemented by the Royal Marines who were the only men onboard specifically trained to fight. Originally, they specialised in Ship-to-Ship actions such as boarding enemy ships, repelling enemy boarders and cutting out operations (Assaulting an enemy ship in port, subduing the crew and either stealing or destroying said ship), but by the Napoleonic Wars they had diversified into providing support for amphibious operations, assaulting coastal defenses and seizing islands alongside the British Army in in whatever theatre they were serving (A large portion of this was going on in the Caribbean - pretty much the first implementation of the 'Island Hopping' tactic). I'd say the Royal Marines would be exactly what you're looking for as inspiration for your main body of troops (Naval troops that frequently deploy on the ground). Once again though, this is purely a suggestion.

Should you want a little more inspiration, whether you take the 'marine' idea forward or not, why not try taking a look at some of the other British Regiments. The Guards Regiments, Fusiliers, Rifles, Grenadier Companies, Light Infantry Regiments - there's a vast array of traditions and dress distinctions to provide inspiration.

 don.mcclain wrote:
So, let me see if I get what your telling me: Shut the f up and do some more homework on the matter?
Honestly, I was just trying to mix it up a bit by trying to explain why Praetorian guardsmen would be wearing blue coats and white trousers instead of the blazing red and blue, so I went and investigated into the anglo-zulu war (Which is what the majority of the Praetorian fluff is based LOOSELY on) and found hey, Royal Navy Detatchments, that could be cool in 40k, some IN ground forces. I have a hard time believing that the Imperial navy doesn't have some form of space to ground force, who's purpose is to retake spaceports if they arrive at a planet under siege or something


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Also, It's nice to hear neither of you complain about the idea of kilted troopers droping out of a valkryie, which is what I was more worried people would chew me out about



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I have a solution: MAYBE my guys are on the ground defending IN assets: Ammo dumps/refueling posts for atmospheric flyers, comms stations, even an LZ for picking up and delivering supplies

Also, maybe they had to make an emergency landing, OR they were the first guys on the scene and where to only ones who could do anything to help out
Do any of these sound likely, or am I looking to get another put down about trying to make IN ground forces?

The red and white is a singular Praetorian regiment. I assume there are many different colours of uniforms for the Praetorians, including white and blue.

Also, please don't complain about people informing you of the background when you're posting in the Background forum, it's unbecoming.

Alright, I do apologize for complaining.
I do have a question though, were the FECK am I supposed to post this concept stuff?


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Oh, now that I think about it, this goes in general discussion right? sorry

Don, you need to ratchet down the defensiveness by about 100. It's kind of ridiculous, and these kinds of meltdowns do nothing to the people who want to help you with your fluff.

Alright, here's an idea, any positive feedback on my concept?

 don.mcclain wrote:
Alright, I do apologize for complaining.
I do have a question though, were the FECK am I supposed to post this concept stuff?


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Oh, now that I think about it, this goes in general discussion right? sorry

No, this goes in Background. You are posting the Background for your proposed Praetorians, people have provided their opinions, a conclusion has been reached. Thread over.

Sorry for the earlier outbursts, truly, I am, but the fact that my idea was almost instantly shot to shims was rather frustrating, though I do realize I did probably post in the wrong area



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And the conclusion is thus: I should shut the feckity feck up and think of some different fluff

But throwing a tantrum doesn't help you.

You made a mistake about the 40k fluff, that's all. You are not a bad person, you made a mistake. Now instead of throwing out the anger, why not ask the folks who have the information for help? Your ego can handle it.

CAN IT?!?! JK
Well, I am happy that I didn't post my page Concepts, Plans, or "The Mad idea's of don.mcclain in the background section, like I had planned to, because THAT might have been a bloodbath of wordy proportions

 don.mcclain wrote:
I have a hard time believing that the Imperial navy doesn't have some form of space to ground force, who's purpose is to retake spaceports if they arrive at a planet under siege or something

Imperial Landing Parties. Used for various reasons including: assistance to planetary governors, Ratings and Tech-Priests to provide extra armed forces or technical and engineering expertise, to protect the crew when they need to resupply (foods, materials, more crew et cetera) and the most useful thing they can do, particularly on remote worlds, is to provide an obvious display of Imperial power and presence, often being the only contact some planets will have had with the Imperium. (Source, White Dwarf 240, pgs 96-7).

It's also interesting to note that Landing Parties might also be wearing armoured pressure suits, described as 'all but impervious to primitive weapons' and they have various weapons and equipment, such as shotguns, shock-mauls and solid round weapons for ranged combat (las-weapons are restricted to officers due to the danger they pose aboard ship) and in hand-to-hand they might have las-cutters, phase field generators and fusion torches and they can even use dismounted ship weapons as emplacements if necessary such as plasma projectors and las-nets not to mention direct gunfire from the ship itself.

Hmm, that wasn't exactly what I ment, but I see that that is the best I will probably get... oh well, Praetorian guard in blue it is. *Sigh*
I had been hoping to just do a concept where my troops were sent from ship to planet without ridiculously epic gear, mostly to save on customizing it to the point of nolonger being usable in other games
That is the true reason for this venture, making multi-purpose units that allow me to explain away the fact that my guard are oddly smaller then cadians,



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Also, seems my scots got hit after all, but you know what, I plan to do them anyway, cuz the idea of a heretic looking up as a Valkyrie passes by and seeing up the kilts of highlanders is just to much to let pass

I really wouldn't worry about the size of the models or even what weaponry you equip them with; if you want to make a Praetorian army just go for it, no need for fancy stories to justify anything (of course, fancy stories for army background are always to be encouraged but only because you want to and not to justify using older models).

That said, there is no reason why Naval ships, whose crew and officers are Praetorian would not render assistance to their fellows in the Guard (within reason) and might well carry on traditions (kilts as part of a uniform) et cetera. Then of course you have the Merchant Fleet, Civil Fleet and Rogue Traders, any of whom might well have reasons to help out an Imperial Guard regiment if say, the Colonel just happened to by the cousin of the Rogue Trader or some such.

Sounds like a cool idea. I wouldnt worry to much about the fluff. What GW gives us is only a tiny snapshot of whats out there considering there is millions upons millions of different worlds and regiments, more than even terra actually knows of.

It's the beauty of 40k that it is reasonably open for much customisation.

If the marines can emulate a prey mantis than guard can dress up like clowns and use flintlocks

The idea is an interesting one and as mitch says, the fluff does have some flexibility to it.

In fact something similar has already been done - Dan Abnett's Double Eagle had Imperial Guard regiments (Phantine Air Corps - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Phantine_air_corps#.VCJpAxacyTY) operating as air wings, something which is almost always done by the Imperial Navy.

The fluff for the Elysian Drop-troops is also interesting as the Guard regiments are recruited from PDF veterans who specialize in not only drop assaults but also in boarding actions (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Elysian#.VCJpcRacyTY).

The fluff has usually been pretty dismissive of PDF and SDF forces - they're usually there to either get hammered badly enough to merit deployment of Guard/Marines or they revolt and thus provide enemies for Guard/Marines. I don't recall anything in the fluff indicating that a planetary system can't have an integrated defence force covering space- and ground- forces though. So you could have a regiment that's from a system similar to Elysia, with a strong fleet element and a need for proper on-board infantry detachments. The Imperial Navy gets to recruit the cream of the crop from this system into large shipboard infantry 'regiments', and this is tolerated because they are good at their job, there's not really that many of them, and they don't have any armour or artillery - thus limiting the damage they can do if they do turn traitor.

Alternatively you could have you guys as a regiment that was in-transit to some war zone on an important Imperial Navy ship when they got boarded and they ended up saving it and ever since then there's been an honourable tradition of that regiment serving on that ship. Or there could be an age-old deal that a world provides x many Guard regiments from it's PDF every year however the local fleet base takes y many regiments from this total and uses them as naval security, with each regiment broken up to cover several ships that serve in different sectors.

I think the important things to remember are that any such regiment would at best have the same level of equipment as the Elysians, ie no armoured or mechanised component above light vehicles. Makes sense from a practical point of view and would help allay any fears about them going rogue.

My favorite way to justify anything is just include an inquisitor. Inquisitors have the theoretical right to requisition any and all forces they deem necessary from any imperial organization, with the exception of marines. And even with marines they will often help out if asked nicely as they know it often isn't worth it to piss off an inquisitor. Now the practical ability to requisition such forces is going to largely come down to the influence the particular inquisitor can throw around, but for the purposes of the army you are proposing don, just putting an inquisitor in the force, or even just the background you write up, is enough to justify the mixing of forces from guard and Navy.

We're forgetting that the Navy could respond to the request if they wanted to. We're also forgetting that this is the Imperium, and that means that standards do not always apply. If the the Naval Armsmen of this Fleet have lasguns, that's fine. As reinforcements, they could be given access to Imperial Guard supplies (such as heavy weapons, Sentinels, etc).

If all you want is different colours, just go for it. You don't need to explain it in any way other than "my regiment is this colour". Feel free to write a backstory behind it, but you're not required to by any means. If your guys were all running about with bolters and Storm Ravens, that would require some explaining.

EDIT: If you really want a Naval theme, you could say that they're a regiment which is used as a training experience for Naval Armsmen, or something to that effect.

Have thought about a similar idea using a Scion Regiment that specializes in Ship to Ship boarding actions and Planetary assaults, would be giving them Drop Pods from the Space Wolf Codex (totally unbound army for those wondering) and use them like halo ODSTS. Who says that Imperial Naval assets are not used on ground operations from time to time?

I love the idea!