Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It seems like with infiltrate and scout you could place them in such a way they don't just give free first blood, but are they strong enough to annoy enemy scoring units and/or contest some objectives that I might not otherwise be able to reach?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also would the shotgun be better or the melee weapon? The bolt gun adds more range, but makes worst use of the fact that open topped transports have the assault rule.

In my Iron Hands army I have two ten man scout squads (one with bolters and one with cloaks and sniper rifles) both equipped with a landspeeder storm. It frees up a lot of points to buy other stuff and gives me six objective secured units. I ussually infiltrate all the scouts and outflank or deep strike the speeders.

The rest of my army puts preassure on the opponent and that often gives my scouts breathing room on the objectives. Mind you, they don't do a whole lot.

The landspeeder storm is also one of coolest minis out there. Paint it up nice and it's awesome! I was so pleased when they made it a DT.

But...LSS can only take FIVE scouts...

Anyway, a piece of advice many people miss when using scouts-you DONT want 10 man squads.

The Sargent is free, and superior to his fellow scouts, therefor 2 squads of 5 are out-preforming a 10 man squad.

Thinking about taking 2 of these with teleport homers for my Nemesis Strike Force. Add a ML2 Libby and now I have access to Biomancy for relentless psycannons.

LSS are fast skimmers with pretty much every deployment based trick you need. They are objective secured, and can cary another OS unit. In an objective game, particularly one where you need to re-deploy on the fly, they are priceless. Or for us, 100 points basic; a steal.

What to put in them depends a lot on your chapter tactics and what you want to do with them. Fill them full of bolters for drive-by shooting, or BP/CCW to storm out and charge something weaker then you. Shotguns are somewhere in the middle.

Their primary job is objective grabbing. Light harassment is a bonus, secondary role.

 BoomWolf wrote:
But...LSS can only take FIVE scouts...

Anyway, a piece of advice many people miss when using scouts-you DONT want 10 man squads.

The Sargent is free, and superior to his fellow scouts, therefor 2 squads of 5 are out-preforming a 10 man squad.

Yeah, that's really clever. I'm gonna start doing that too.

As for the LSS just fitting five guys, that's not a problem since they rarely ride in it and also it's big enough for a CS.

Do I want to do any upgrades? The sgt is almost certainly getting melta bombs. The ability to fly 6", disembark 6", then charge a vehicle 6-9 inches away adds to the versatility, but would something like power sword be worth it?

I now autoinclude a lanspeeder storm with 5 bolter scouts in it. If I can use infiltrate to deploy behind my opponent, i use it (usually if they split into two flanks and there's something to hide out of LoS behind), otherwise I outflank or scout into a good hiding place.

with free access to a heavy flamer, it suddenly goes from a heavy bolter that has a chance of hurting something to the bane of light infantry. the scouts inside can throw a frag or krak grenade as well, giving them some minor Anti tank and some decent anti-horde, too. The cerberus launcher is great, I've had a game in which a wraithknight was stumbling around blind for the first 3 turns. it was only him and the storm on one flank; I couldn't hurt him and he couldn't hit me!

Storms are a great one for making people waste their units. you've only got so many, and they can only kill one thing each (with the exception of assaulting passengers after destroying their transport) so having a storm on an objective means that the opponent has to commit at least 2 units to clearing said objective; one for the storm and one for the scouts. if the objective's in cover, scouts will probably need more than 1 unit to clear them off. either way, chances are it'll take more than 100 points to get them off.

meltabombs is a good idea, powersword less so, they are a fragile unit so I'd put the powersword somewhere more survivable, like vanguard vets or assault marines. if you give them any power weapon, go for an axe for the off-chance you can take out a terminator.

I wouldn't bother with anything more than a melta bomb and camo as upgrades. Storm is pretty good, especially with maelstrom missions(or something similar). Really helps make sure that they make it.

I'd go with bp + ccw scouts with a meltabomb sarge in storm. Shotguns are fine too but there's no easy winner here cause both have their goods and bads. Sometimes it's better to make 1 more shot and probably inflict 1 more casualty at range to force ld check or more chances to glance av10 before charging in with krak nades and melta bomb. Sometimes it's better to inflict an extra casualty or two in mellee to swipe the enemy more reliably. It's situational and up to you to decide, but both are decent if you use them wisely. But i'd not take bolters for scouts in storm. It wastes their mellee potential.

Are the scouts in the storm kit usable as the unit once it disembarks or do you need a separate kit for the scouts?

Mavnas wrote:
Are the scouts in the storm kit usable as the unit once it disembarks or do you need a separate kit for the scouts?

Only if you have some extra bases and if you can handle a bunch of magnets. Would look really cool though.

They provide some very nice 'bits' to include. I tend to prefer modelling the storm without them on board (it looks odd for them to still be on the speeder after the squad dismbarks), but things like the reloading arms are very nice.

And yes, the storm is very nice. It's fast and flexible. Heavy flamer/cerberus launcher is a nice one/two against infantry at short range.

I wouldn't use it as an assault transport becuase if you want to make a serious assault threat you're going to need a full-strength scout unit. 5 guys can take an objective, but they're not going to kick an enemy unit off it in the process.

I'd say shotguns and combat blades work best mixed:

If you've got a 10-man unit, I'd consider going half-and-half - veteran sarge, power weapon, and four scouts with combat blades and five scouts with shotguns.

The shotguns go at the front - they get to do the bulk of their damage in the shooting phase, then soak up overwatch casualties and high-initiative wounds from attached characters. Then, the blade-armed scouts get to do their thing in an extended melee.

I'll be honest, I'm a big fan of bolter scouts. I keep looking at the Sentinals of Terra supplement - they can easily get into rapid fire range, and lots of cheap twin-linked bolter fire hurts like hell.

If you are doing IF tactics, drive by shootings with bolter scouts become a much better option. And if you need to charge, you just snap off a shot from your bolt pistol and hope for the best.

So...I am set on getting two of these for my Nemesis Strike Force. (For the scouting teleport homers and insta OS units.

I'm thinking the MM is the way to go for GKs...I'd like to hear your opinions...

I'd also like to hear which Chapter Tactics you think would work best.

Was thinking Ravenguard, Imperial Fists and Iron Hands all have their perks.

Depends on the HQ you are going for.

Also side note. Blind works on walkers(and super heavy walkers) so that makes the storm even better lol

 Leth wrote:
Depends on the HQ you are going for.

Was thinking of a stock Terminator Libby

LSSs are BS3, so take that MM with a grain of salt: it’s going to miss half the time. I’d only take it if I was desperate for anti-tank, or playing a Vulcan list. HB or HF are probably the better options. Keep it cheep and cheerful. The HB will let you contribute from wherever you happen to be flitting about, and the HF doesn’t care about your crappy BS. It does, however, need to be pressed right up against the enemy, so I hope you have a plan for living through the next turn.

RG gives you stealth the first turn, which helps if you need to jink to avoid giving up first blood. You already scout, so don’t get the other advantages. Not worth it over the others IMHO.

IF gives you bolter drill. This boosts the scouts quite a bit, as they need the re-rolls to help their marksmanship. Does not help the LSS itself though, as most CTs don’t affect vehicles.

IH does though. IWND on the speeder can sometimes help. The problem is it’s fragile and open topped, so has some pretty good odds of just going down on the first hit. And 2 HP doesn’t give you a lot of wiggle room to heal. The 6+ FNP on the scouts can be nice to help keep them alive.

Of the three CTs you have here, the IF and IH look to bring more to the table then the RG. IF is going to be more offensive, IH more defensive. I think the boost bolter drill gives you offense is going to be more significant then the boost IH gives your defense. But the question is what role do they fill in your list, which is more important?

If you want a stock libby I would go sentinels for the +1 warp charge and re-roll dice item.

Also then twin-linked bolter scouts

 Leth wrote:
If you want a stock libby I would go sentinels for the +1 warp charge and re-roll dice item.

Also then twin-linked bolter scouts

Done and done...I like it.

 Nevelon wrote:


RG gives you stealth the first turn, which helps if you need to jink to avoid giving up first blood. You already scout, so don’t get the other advantages. Not worth it over the others IMHO.

Do i miss something or rg are now allowed to get +1 cover on all the models? Cause iirc it's written in codex that only non-vehicle models without bulky.

 koooaei wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:


RG gives you stealth the first turn, which helps if you need to jink to avoid giving up first blood. You already scout, so don’t get the other advantages. Not worth it over the others IMHO.

Do i miss something or rg are now allowed to get +1 cover on all the models? Cause iirc it's written in codex that only non-vehicle models without bulky.

You are probably right. I posted that when still on my first cup of coffee, so accuracy might be a bit off...

Yeah, Sentinels looks like the right choice for a Libby + scouts unit. I would say IH is second best as the FNP and IWND will help with perils, but if you can just reroll failed tests...

Indeed.

Close Ranged Bolter Drill > Bolter Drill because you can start the shooting phase of turn 1 in rapid fire range if you really want to.

Though bolter drill works on shotguns where close range one doesn't?

Mavnas wrote:
Though bolter drill works on shotguns where close range one doesn't?

Nope, only Bolt Pistol, Bolt Guns, The Bolt Gun part of a Combi-Bolter, Storm Bolters and Heavy Bolters.

Though this could make the Heavy Bolter and interesting option for the Drive-By-Bolter Speeder Scouts.

Mavnas wrote:
It seems like with infiltrate and scout you could place them in such a way they don't just give free first blood, but are they strong enough to annoy enemy scoring units and/or contest some objectives that I might not otherwise be able to reach?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also would the shotgun be better or the melee weapon? The bolt gun adds more range, but makes worst use of the fact that open topped transports have the assault rule.

I'd go with Shotguns and a power fist.

I think my problem is that 12" is get charged range. If I put them there, I have to be willing to be in melee with whatever just got shot, at which point you might as well charge yourself most of the time so that you're not getting shot at full BS and get the extra attack.

I think another chapter to consider would be White Scars. The scouts will probably not murder things in melee, but there are a number of units that won't kill them either and they can't be shot while engaged. Hit and Run lets you pop back out of melee and do some shooting before charging again. Here I envision something like a devastator squad camping a backfield objective. You charge them, securing the objective and denying them their shooting, then on your turn you disengage, shoot them again and get the bonus for charging again.

Get cjharged range...but wou are shooting bolters, a heavy bolter or flamer and a large blinding blast.

In conjunction, you're putting out some pretty nice and cheap anti infantry (T3) damage and should mitiagate any response...while being safe in your hovercar.

 ductvader wrote:
Get cjharged range...but wou are shooting bolters, a heavy bolter or flamer and a large blinding blast.

In conjunction, you're putting out some pretty nice and cheap anti infantry (T3) damage and should mitiagate any response...while being safe in your hovercar.

Yeah, but not charging myself gives up half the unit's possible S4 attacks. Against a weaker enemy, is not good.

I think the relic on the librarian makes the tactics useful.