Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thinking about trying this unit out in an up coming game

Draigo
10x purifiers 4x psycannon

This would go with 20interceptors 2 dk And deepstriking terminators+librarian.

I feel this would add that little something extra in the alpha strike while keeping it pure grey knights. Draigo adds a lot to the board presence and brings mobility to a slow unit.

If I wanted a little extra fun, I could add
Ordo malleus inq w/ terminator armor and psycannon 3 servo skulls (still really fluffy) and could even give him a liber heresius and then attach to the purifiers. Hatred draigo/purifiers

This would also make draigo and purifiers a bit more accurate in the teleport and bring moar psycannons!

Thoughts?

I like it. I've been toying with having Draigo tank for Purifiers as well. It's a great assault unit that also has access to good anti-infantry shooting via Cleansing Flame and Incinerators.

Yeah i do something similar too but i combat sqaud my purifiers and put my lib with the other squad and port both of them in and now i have extra cleansing flames. And instead of psycannons i use flamers so they can still be an assult threat and im not wasting draigo just as a goi guy.

Kyck24 wrote:
Yeah i do something similar too but i combat sqaud my purifiers and put my lib with the other squad and port both of them in and now i have extra cleansing flames. And instead of psycannons i use flamers so they can still be an assult threat and im not wasting draigo just as a goi guy.

Here is the thing though, Draigo doesn't hurt their assault potential, he strengthens it. Draigo is a beast in Close Combat, and the changes to his Titan Sword make it even more so. Gate of Infinity also helps to strengthen getting around the Purifiers into assault range for those of us who do not wish to SW to get access to Drop Pods to stick out Purifiers in.

You do basically touch on something I was planning as well. I too don't like the thought of sticking all my Purifiers into one squad. It allows an opponent to focus fire a squad to death and Draigo's tanking skills can only last for so long. How I was thinking was similar to yours in that you combat squad the group having Draigo go with one element and the Librarian go with the other...IF the Librarian gets Gate of Infinity otherwise you do what the original poster did sticking them all in one group of 10 and sending the Librarian with the Terminators. Taking the relic book hopefully would greater guarantee Gate of Infinity but dice can be fickle sometimes. But if the Libby would get Gate, that allows 3 dangerous squads in the back field with one tougher squad because of Draigo tanking things.

Yah thats exactly what i do. And the reason i take purfiers with flamers so they can shoot and assult.

I thought the changes to psycannons made them terrible on non terminators? Why not just run around with terminators / paladins?

1 I still have purifiers modeled with them.
2 the draigo/librarian will get them into range turn 1 over coming the issue. I always run an inquisitor in every list I make so always have servo skulls too for small scatter.
3 my list needed some nova love in it for those hordes.

 Goldphish wrote:
I thought the changes to psycannons made them terrible on non terminators? Why not just run around with terminators / paladins?

I think this is a misnomer. The problem is staying within 12" but for Interceptors, I think putting Psycannons on them is just fine seeing as they have a 12" movement and I had no problem keeping them where they needed to be to fire the Psycannon. Purifiers and GKSS are bit more of a problem but I don't think it is too touch as long as you have a delivery method and if they are objective sitting, which is mostly what I use GKSS for anyway, than the changes don't effect it as well. It is all in how you look at it.

Envihon you know that you can't assault if you shoot salvo weapons, right?

It's not a big deal to some people. I often have a squad or two that, in spite of having amazing force weapons and a pretty decent armor save (and being able to sweep!) I just want to keep back, camp objectives, or simply shoot. The purifiers the OP is talking about won't be able to charge on the turn they use Gate of Infinity anyway but they'll have to forgo their psycannon shooting the following turn(s) if they want to assault, and that's what's bumming people out.

The Ivory Disaster wrote:
Envihon you know that you can't assault if you shoot salvo weapons, right?

It's not a big deal to some people. I often have a squad or two that, in spite of having amazing force weapons and a pretty decent armor save (and being able to sweep!) I just want to keep back, camp objectives, or simply shoot. The purifiers the OP is talking about won't be able to charge on the turn they use Gate of Infinity anyway but they'll have to forgo their psycannon shooting the following turn(s) if they want to assault, and that's what's bumming people out.

I did not know that although thankfully, I didn't abuse that rule at all seeing as my psycannons either took out the squad I was going after or they charged me first when I was using my Interceptors. Guess that means I will be changing over to the Incinerator full time then.

THIS...is why I love an endurance libby in my GKs.

As opposed to many allies, it just makes them feel more GK-like.

And with my Sentinels Libby he is really used for giving more charges to the army as a whole.

 ductvader wrote:
THIS...is why I love an endurance libby in my GKs.

As opposed to many allies, it just makes them feel more GK-like.

And with my Sentinels Libby he is really used for giving more charges to the army as a whole.

I still like Sanctic for GK, it is a Discipline like no other with plenty of defensive and offensive power with ultility.

And you use Bones of Osrak don't you?

Yup

 ductvader wrote:
Yup

Bones of Osrak are soooo good. It is what helps make Imperial Fists, specifically Sentinels of Terra such good allies to the Grey Knights and that makes me happy since I love the Imperial Fists almost as much as I love the Grey Knights. To me Sentinels help make the DraigoCenturionStar even more deadly by putting that Librarian with Draigo to cast Prescience on the Grav Cents and then if you get Forewarning to get the 4++ and then have a GK Libby in there too to make a 3++ and Draigo a 2++...it is a difficult unit to kill. Almost as good as Invisibility with so much more utility.

In larger lists I use a Draigo death star deep striking turn one into the back field while my purifier squads churn up the field in rhinos. sort of like a hammer and anvil thing The reason for this is with enough 2+ distraction in a vital area the metal boxes make it at least close to where they need to go. I honestly think the role of non deep striking gk's in this codex are to provide a combined arms assault. If you deep strike shield less terminators into the back field they will die by turn 3 if the opponent focuses his army on them, but if you have 2 squads of purifiers rolling up, flame novaing stuff they will have to at least split their focus. Again this is just how i play, and i have been moderately successful with that build.

Disclaimer: The following rant is just my opinion, and as such should be taken not as an indictment of other players, but as an observation about the nature of us as players and this hobby we all share.

On an unrelated note, I understand it is competitive but i honestly think it is a travesty to ally space wolves and grey knights just for drop pod access. In all honesty the idea of allying anything other than two codex space marine chapters and using each other's vehicles is just flat out wrong. The armies are designed in codex to do specific things, and exploiting the abilities of another codex in the form of allies specifically for things that your army cannot do in my opinion takes a lot away from the game. specifically allying in another faction to take advantage of specific vehicles or abilities intended to be used by the original force, not the army the vehicles or abilities belong to is abuse of the highest order. If you want to play grey knights but like bike marines then ally in some white scars. That is great because that is what the ally rules are intended for. But to ally in a minimum group of wolves to take FA drop pods for your GK purifiers is wrong. It is like hanging out with someone just to use them for their possessions. if you want to go play with drop pods and PAMEQ deep strike rules, go play vanilla marines. if you want terminators, force sword wielding PAMEQ's and more psykers you can shake a custodes spear at play grey knights.

 GKTiberius wrote:
In larger lists I use a Draigo death star deep striking turn one into the back field while my purifier squads churn up the field in rhinos. sort of like a hammer and anvil thing The reason for this is with enough 2+ distraction in a vital area the metal boxes make it at least close to where they need to go. I honestly think the role of non deep striking gk's in this codex are to provide a combined arms assault. If you deep strike shield less terminators into the back field they will die by turn 3 if the opponent focuses his army on them, but if you have 2 squads of purifiers rolling up, flame novaing stuff they will have to at least split their focus. Again this is just how i play, and i have been moderately successful with that build.

Disclaimer: The following rant is just my opinion, and as such should be taken not as an indictment of other players, but as an observation about the nature of us as players and this hobby we all share.

On an unrelated note, I understand it is competitive but i honestly think it is a travesty to ally space wolves and grey knights just for drop pod access. In all honesty the idea of allying anything other than two codex space marine chapters and using each other's vehicles is just flat out wrong. The armies are designed in codex to do specific things, and exploiting the abilities of another codex in the form of allies specifically for things that your army cannot do in my opinion takes a lot away from the game. specifically allying in another faction to take advantage of specific vehicles or abilities intended to be used by the original force, not the army the vehicles or abilities belong to is abuse of the highest order. If you want to play grey knights but like bike marines then ally in some white scars. That is great because that is what the ally rules are intended for. But to ally in a minimum group of wolves to take FA drop pods for your GK purifiers is wrong. It is like hanging out with someone just to use them for their possessions. if you want to go play with drop pods and PAMEQ deep strike rules, go play vanilla marines. if you want terminators, force sword wielding PAMEQ's and more psykers you can shake a custodes spear at play grey knights.

I actually feel the same way and I honestly feel guilty sometimes about doing the sticking Draigo in a squad of Grav Centurions to Gate them around the board. In my defense, I had already allied with Imperial Fists to take care of the anti-armor that the GK lack. It was on a whim that I decided to place my 2 Libbys (The Imperial Fist Libby went with the Centurions anyway) and placed Draigo with them as well since I had the model and hadn't used him since 5th so I wanted to try him and pairing him with the Grav Centurions was like a light bulb. I later discovered that the internet was already 10 steps ahead of me but I couldn't deny how good it was. I already loved the synergy between my GKs and Imperial Fists but that combination was just icing on the cake, and I have become addicted to it despite knowing that I do it mostly because of how awesome it performs. With needing to take allies for GKs to cover all their bases, it seems like these situations will continue to pop up. Look at the DE and Eldar discussions going on right now and a similar thing is happening. I guess I am just happy to have Battle Brothers at all anymore and that I can merge my two favorite factions together without having to pick and choose who I want to play.

It makes no sense for Grey Knights to not have access to one of the most efficient and well used means of getting troops to the battlefield (drop pod). It also doesn't make sense for Purifiers to not have the same equipment as their brothers (strikers) to get to the battlefield (our regular troops can deep strike but our elite are going to have to hoof it... no spare teleporters for them!). My ideal Purifier list is to have Crowe and purifiers in drop pods with some Dreadknights. The only way to accomplish this is to go unbound. But if I did it, would you say that I'm breaking fluff or breaking the game by not doing what the game intended?

It makes no sense for Grey Knights to not have access to one of the most efficient and well used means of getting troops to the battlefield (drop pod).

Actually it does for both fluff and crunch reasons.

Fluff: If they grey knights are not supposed to leave a trace behind because they officially don't exist then they wouldn't use drop pods, which they would have to leave behind. The regular troops, which are supposed to be like everyone else's elites, deep strike because of the fact that terminator armor deep strikes. purifiers wear power armor which cannot survive deep strike teleportation. Also purifiers, in the fluff, are elite warriors meant to support the main force, that is why they are separate and not part of any of the 8 brotherhoods.

Crunch: Dropping purifiers from drop pod is really broken. You deep strike without mishap unless you land off the table, and on the turn it comes in the squad could potentially have 2 cleansing flames (average of 14 hits) plus 20 storm bolter shots that is like having a 10 man vanguard squad drop pod in that also i can have the fire power of a 5 man heavy bolter dev squad. each of the stern guard would have power weapons, except vanguard cant take bolters and purifiers come stock with storm bolters. so that is. IF there were rules in vanillas space marines to put a squad together that could do what purifiers do it would cost 475 points (10 vanguard vets, 10 power weapons, 10 storm bolters, 5 heavy bolters, and a drop pod) and a bland purifier squad in a drop pod costs 285, and that is without heavy weapons. I play Grey knights and have since started playing 40k and I would even say that for what they can do for their points cost they are broken if delivered using a drop pod. Pulling this off with Draigo is much more difficult and has an appropriate amount of risk attached for the power of the unit. Also with Draigo you can deep strike only 1 purifier unit. Bringing 3 10 man purifier squads by drop pod is just flat out broken. if purifiers were meant to be taken with drop pods then we would have them in the codex.

Fluff: They don't leave Wrecked Rhinos behind? In the fluff, any Imperial that witnessed the fight must be killed or brain-wiped. Then I imagine a clean-up team of some sort picks up the bodies and wrecked vehicles. Drop Pods are just as easy to recover as a wrecked Rhino or Storm Raven. Strike Squads wear power armor too and yet than have a means to teleport into battle. I don't see why they wouldn't use teleporters on Purifiers or Purgations if the rest of the force does it too. Why have vehicles at all if they risk giving up the identity of the Grey Knights?

Crunch: You're right, in game it is a very strong unit to be allowed to Drop Pod. I wouldn't consider it more OP than other drop podding forces though. Once on the field they can still be out-maneuvered and lacking Objective Secured is a big weakness compared to other Drop Pod armies. It wouldn't be an unkillable force and might actually put us on the same level as Eldar.

Fluff: GKs don't use rhinos...or razorbacks...they actually don't use anything but land raiders, ravens, and thunderhawks as far as I've seen.

As for pods...GKs always teleport...even purgators should be able...but purifiers aren't going to touch the warp.

 ductvader wrote:
but purifiers aren't going to touch the warp.

Except when they cast powers? XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not asking for anyone to justify GW's inconsistent fluff. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be scorned when someone chooses to make do with the tools given by taking Drop Pods. If it were possible for me to houserule at a tournament to allow Purifiers to Deep Strike like Strike Squads with the rest of the army then I would.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As it is, the only competitive way I can see to use Purifiers is to take a lot of them with Rhinos (5 to 6 combat squads in Rhinos plus Rhinos from the Fast Attack slot). Draigo teleporting them around is a neat trick but you might as well just take a Librarian and roll for Cleansing Flame with him.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go the allied Space Wolf drop pod route (maybe two, if the tournament allows). I will probably create my own 'teleport pods' instead of using Drop Pods, however, to make it a bit more GK oriented. Full squad of purifiers with incinerators that combat squad on disembarking for double cleansing flames. Not sure what I'll do with the two SW HQs, however, since they can't ride along. Any suggestions?

DoW

Model/paint them up as Inquisitor observers? They're there for intelligence and to report back to the Inquisitions on the Grey Knight's progress.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forge dat narrative!

I think he means playstyle...could be wrong.

You're going to either need a small purifier squad, a purgation squad, a big walking purifier squad, or to put them in terminator armor.

 GKTiberius wrote:

It makes no sense for Grey Knights to not have access to one of the most efficient and well used means of getting troops to the battlefield (drop pod).

Fluff: If they grey knights are not supposed to leave a trace behind because they officially don't exist then they wouldn't use drop pods, which they would have to leave behind. The regular troops, which are supposed to be like everyone else's elites, deep strike because of the fact that terminator armor deep strikes. purifiers wear power armor which cannot survive deep strike teleportation. Also purifiers, in the fluff, are elite warriors meant to support the main force, that is why they are separate and not part of any of the 8 brotherhoods.

Strike Squads and Interceptors all who wear regular power armor, can and do Deep Strike but for some reason Purgators and Purifiers loose this ability. It seems kind of wrong especially since they say that they actually have to wait to wear regular power armor and teleport because the amount of will power that it takes to do this. Purifiers being the best of the best when it comes to corruption had to go through the process of being a Terminator, then moving on to GKSS or Interceptors like everyone else and in fact have the best willpower than anyone else in the Chapter. They are the purest of the pure so really, they should be deep striking masters, not be the ones who can't do it.

To be fair, Strikers are sitting in a giant Teleportation room in a ship for the purposes of coming down, it has nothing to do with the armor...just GK perceived battlefield roles.

If you're going to just show up...Strike, Intercept, Terminate.

If you're going to Purify...Land Raiders and Ravens.

(I hate Rhino Chassis...they are so anti GK it isn't even funny)

I apologize. I was not aware that strike squads could deeps strike. that is really dumb that strike squads can and purifiers cant. this kind of invalidates everything i said earlier.

 ductvader wrote:
To be fair, Strikers are sitting in a giant Teleportation room in a ship for the purposes of coming down, it has nothing to do with the armor...just GK perceived battlefield roles.

If you're going to just show up...Strike, Intercept, Terminate.

If you're going to Purify...Land Raiders and Ravens.

(I hate Rhino Chassis...they are so anti GK it isn't even funny)

It has everything to do with their armor, the codex even points it out. The reason why other Space Marines only teleport using Terminator armor is because of the better protection it provides as the wearer travels through the warp before they arrive at their destination. GKs are the only ones who do it in power armor because the power that they wield with their minds acts as a personal geller field. Normally for non-psychics, the Terminator armor acts as a geller field and it even talks about how new GKs are put in Terminator armor until they can show that they are strong enough in mind to teleport in regular power armor and then once that happens, they have to get of even stronger in the mind so that they get the personal teleporter pack that the Interceptors have that allow them to do the shunt and move 12" because Interceptors aren't walking across the battle field, they are teleporting across the battlefield. With this in mind, why do all of a sudden, Purifiers and Purgators loose the ability to Deep Strike? With how pure the Purifiers are, they should be the experts in teleporting because they have the strongest minds to protect against the warp but nope, they have to find a vehicle to get or go with some that can Gate of Infinity them around which is more than likely Draigo unless you like to gamble with a Librarian.

Purifiers are really awesome within 9"... Really outside of that that they are just expensive purgation squads. And the strength of the gk army right now is to be a fast moving jump around the board force... And purifiers do not jive well at all. purifiers really only work well with... Purifiers and armor lists
This is why people are trying to bring allies to get around this drawback of theirs.

I feel that with Draigo and a Librarian though it gives some independence for the GK even with using Purifiers. It gives us a way to attempt to not to have to use allies but it still isn't as efficient or a sure strategy that taking allies provides.