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I figure this is the right part of the forums for this...


I have started a little private project that will allow me to use all my WotC Star Wars models on the tabletop, using the 40k rules.

Along the way, I thought it might be fun to do a little Design Diary of the process;

http://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/category/games-design/

Your Psychic Powers are funny. Since they are similar to several powers in the BRB, I have no problem with that. However, there is something I have to point out:

- Force Lightning is not new, it is the Sunburst power from the Pyromancy discipline, but better in everyway, since you switch S and AP.

-Force Rage. Really ? 2 WC for just Rage is simply overcosted. I suggest dropping to 1 WC or add Furious Charge, Hatred and/or Hammer of Wrath.

-Where are the point costs for Jedi and Dark Jedi ? And what battlefield role do they have ? I assume they are HQ, but better safe than sorry, right ?

-Also, I suggest separating the upgrade to Master and to Mastery level. The (Dark) Jedi may take one additional mastery level (up to mastery level 3) for 25 pts/level, since it is how much other codexs pay for. Because it seems that the Jedi can upgrade from Lv1 to Lv3 and with vastly improved stats for just 35 pts.

-Stormtroopers are undercosted, though not by much. Increasing their point cost to (maybe) 10 ppm or change the Thermal Detonator from Meltabomb to Krak grenades shoud work.

-The Stormtrooper Sergeant should have a pistol, instead of a rifle.

Force Lightning is actually already in 40k, it's called Smite and it's the Primaris power of the Biomancy discipline.

Also I'm confused as to why a lightsaber has Gets Hot!. Have you ever seen a Jedi explode himself with his own sword?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Force Lightning is actually already in 40k, it's called Smite and it's the Primaris power of the Biomancy discipline.

Also I'm confused as to why a lightsaber has Gets Hot!. Have you ever seen a Jedi explode himself with his own sword?

He was using the rule as a way to simulate an inexperienced Saber user hurting themselves. He even stated Jedi and Dark Jedi ignore the Gets Hot! rule, since they are trained to use it proper. So, he may have some way for others to use them, perhaps bounty hunters who keep Sabers as trophies and use them, but since they don't have the proper training, using them could be high risk high reward situations.

A few comments.
Dark Side powers:
Farseeing: Doesn't really seem Dark Side to me. Same with Force Shield. Both of these seem more like Light Side powers.
Change Force Grip to Force Choke.
Force Rage: Change to "The Psyker gains +D3 Strength and Initiative (roll once for both). In addition the Psyker and his unit gain the Rage special rule." Although personally I would not extend Rage to the unit.

Lightsabers: I suggest the following changes:
Range: -, Strength: User, AP:3, Type: Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon*, Unwieldy*
*Models with the Psyker special rule ignore the Specialist Weapon and Unwieldy special rules.

In addition, a Lightsber can be thrown in the shooting phase with the following profile.
Range: 12", Strength: User, AP:3, Type Assault 3, Shred

First the AP change. There are known materials that can block lightsabers (cortosis being one of the better known materials). As such, it is not unlikely that some of the stronger armours, such as Phoenix armour or Terminator armour, would be able to block it.
Gets Hot only deals with rolling to hit when shooting. As a non-force user is generally not trained in the use of Lightsabers, they would find it rather awkward (hence the Specialist and Unwieldy).

Stormtroopers: You comment that they are "BS 3, as they are not noted for their accuracy!", however, first, if I may quote Obi-Wan "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." According to the SWE, stormtroopers live in a totally disciplined, militaristic environment, and their intense dedication and training means that they cannot be bribed or blackmailed. Their marksmanship is generally very good and is sometimes superb. If you monitor their combat effectiveness in ANH, TESB, and ROTJ, you will note that they regularly score hits at ranges of more than 20 metres while shooting from the hip, which is as much as anyone can reasonably expect. One stormtrooper missed Han Solo's head by less than an inch in the ANH detention centre battle, and stormtroopers hit Leia and R2D2 with snap-shots from all the way across the clearing in ROTJ. They also inflicted heavy casualties on the Ewoks in ROTJ despite the Ewoks' advantages of surprise, terrain familiarity, large numbers of traps, small size, and camouflage colouration.

Now that criticism is done.
Other thoughts.
Long-blade lightsabers: These lightsabers are designed with a larger blade, allowing the wielder to hit harder, however, require two hands to use. Long-blade lightsabers have +2 Strength, and the Two-handed special rule,
Short-blade Lightsaber (Shoto): Shoto have a shorter blade allowing the user to attack with a flurry of blows. Shoto have the Flurry special rule. Flurry: For every successful To Hit roll made in combat with this weapon the wielder can make an additional attack. These bonus attacks do not generate extra attacks themselves.

Variable length lightsabers: Some lightsabers have been modified to have two different blade lengths. At the start of each Fight sub-phase in which the wielder is locked in combat, it must decide which profile to use (Long-blade or standard).

Jedi Armour: While most Jedi prefer the freedom that their robes provide, some realize that a good set of armour can provide better protection if caught unawares. A model with Jedi Armour has a 3+ armour save (maybe 4+?) but suffers a -1 penalty to Initiative.

Hi guys,

Many thanks for all your comments, and for taking the time to read through my ramblings. You've got good ideas and I have comments for them here - but I will reserve the Games Designer's prerogative to change my own mind at any time

 xalvissx wrote:

- Force Lightning is not new, it is the Sunburst power from the Pyromancy discipline, but better in everyway, since you switch S and AP.

I thought Force Lightning needed a bit more 'pep'.

 xalvissx wrote:
-Force Rage. Really ? 2 WC for just Rage is simply overcosted. I suggest dropping to 1 WC or add Furious Charge, Hatred and/or Hammer of Wrath.

 Happyjew wrote:
Force Rage: Change to "The Psyker gains +D3 Strength and Initiative (roll once for both). In addition the Psyker and his unit gain the Rage special rule." Although personally I would not extend Rage to the unit.

Both reasonable points. The D3 S and I idea is interesting. Will meditate on the Rage going to the rest of the unit.

 xalvissx wrote:
-Where are the point costs for Jedi and Dark Jedi ? And what battlefield role do they have ? I assume they are HQ, but better safe than sorry, right ?

Sorry, Dark Jedi 100 points, Jedi 110 points. Both HQ choices.

 xalvissx wrote:
-Also, I suggest separating the upgrade to Master and to Mastery level. The (Dark) Jedi may take one additional mastery level (up to mastery level 3) for 25 pts/level, since it is how much other codexs pay for. Because it seems that the Jedi can upgrade from Lv1 to Lv3 and with vastly improved stats for just 35 pts.

I'll make that clear.

 xalvissx wrote:
-Stormtroopers are undercosted, though not by much. Increasing their point cost to (maybe) 10 ppm or change the Thermal Detonator from Meltabomb to Krak grenades shoud work.

You know, I am worried they are overcosted The Meltabombs angle (which is what I think the thermal detonator should be, rather than Krak) is less of an issue in Star Wars as the Rebels have so few vehicles and fortifications. Also the Stormtroopers only transport is the AT-AT, so they are not bombing around DE Wych-style. Playtesting next week should sort that out.

 xalvissx wrote:
-The Stormtrooper Sergeant should have a pistol, instead of a rifle.

The model has a rifle

 Happyjew wrote:

Dark Side powers:
Farseeing: Doesn't really seem Dark Side to me. Same with Force Shield. Both of these seem more like Light Side powers.
Change Force Grip to Force Choke.

I have Farseeing as the Primaris power for both Light and Dark - it seems a general enough Force power ("everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...").

Reasonable point on Force Shield. However, I kinda rolled Force Choke in with Force Grip, considering them related powers with Choke going in at low Strength and Grip going in at high.

 Happyjew wrote:
Lightsabers: I suggest the following changes:
Range: -, Strength: User, AP:3, Type: Melee, Shred, Specialist Weapon*, Unwieldy*
*Models with the Psyker special rule ignore the Specialist Weapon and Unwieldy special rules.

In addition, a Lightsber can be thrown in the shooting phase with the following profile.
Range: 12", Strength: User, AP:3, Type Assault 3, Shred

First the AP change. There are known materials that can block lightsabers (cortosis being one of the better known materials). As such, it is not unlikely that some of the stronger armours, such as Phoenix armour or Terminator armour, would be able to block it.
Gets Hot only deals with rolling to hit when shooting. As a non-force user is generally not trained in the use of Lightsabers, they would find it rather awkward (hence the Specialist and Unwieldy).

I thought someone would suggest AP 3 My thinking here is the kind of armour you are talking about (and Dark Trooper Phase IIIs have it) handle this with an invulnerable save instead, splitting things down.

With you on the Unwieldy and Specialist, but I wanted to make them downright dangerous for non-Force users, with the possibility you can always lop your own leg off. Should put a line in about Gets Hots relating to CC in this case alone.

Shred/Fleshbane - an even toss-up at the moment. Will playtest both to see what feels right.

Throwing lightsabres - yeah, that is reasonable. However, I _may_ keep things fairly simple in these two books. I can always do a Force-based supplement later on with all sorts of options (and there are a lot for Force users - different lightsabres, breaking down the powers tables further, and so on).

 Happyjew wrote:
Stormtroopers: You comment that they are "BS 3, as they are not noted for their accuracy!", however, first, if I may quote Obi-Wan "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise."

Again, not unreasonable at all. However, I am already a bit concerned that the Empire might dominate the Rebels on the field with the armour on Stormtroopers and generally better access to heavy weapons. If there is room to do so after playtesting, I would rather bump up their BS to 4 rather than drop their points cost. Will be keeping this one in mind.

 Happyjew wrote:
Long-blade lightsabers: These lightsabers are designed with a larger blade, allowing the wielder to hit harder, however, require two hands to use. Long-blade lightsabers have +2 Strength, and the Two-handed special rule,
Short-blade Lightsaber (Shoto): Shoto have a shorter blade allowing the user to attack with a flurry of blows. Shoto have the Flurry special rule. Flurry: For every successful To Hit roll made in combat with this weapon the wielder can make an additional attack. These bonus attacks do not generate extra attacks themselves.
Variable length lightsabers: Some lightsabers have been modified to have two different blade lengths. At the start of each Fight sub-phase in which the wielder is locked in combat, it must decide which profile to use (Long-blade or standard).

My big limitation here is model selection. I can always do conversions, of course, but for now I'll stick to the standard WotC range. As before, all good material for a Force-user supplement.

 Happyjew wrote:
Jedi Armour: While most Jedi prefer the freedom that their robes provide, some realize that a good set of armour can provide better protection if caught unawares. A model with Jedi Armour has a 3+ armour save (maybe 4+?) but suffers a -1 penalty to Initiative.

I have already spotted that I have written myself into a corner on this one If a lightsabre gives 3+ Invulnerables to Masters, they don't need Jedi armour unless it grants a 2+ save, and that would be silly! Not something I need to really worry about until Codex: Clone Troopers. On the other hand, I really like the Invulnerables Lightsabres give (as stated before, I reserve the right to completely change my mind!). Maybe the Jedi Armour could do something other than a straight save...


Once again, thanks for the comments guys - I'll be doing another update later today or tomorrow.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just done another update that you should be able to get your teeth into, as there are some issues with it - the basic Rebel troopers!

http://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/category/games-design/