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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/01 22:05:02
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Ive been juggling around a lot of the Forge World options for tau for a long while now, things like HH varients, special characters, suits, etc. One though, I had never really considered until I sat down and really thought about what the unit offers. And that unit, if the title wasn't a give away, is Rha'varna riptides...*ahem* I mean Remora drone stealth fighters.
I had heard enough discussions about them on alternative forums to write them off at first glance. 90 pts for a 2 HP 10/10/10 vehicle seems VERY steep and unpractical. But being my analytical self, I decided to take another look.
For 90 pts you get:
-2HP
-10/10/10
-BS3
(standard piranha statline, with 1 less armor in front.)
I was suprised that something that is drawn from the drone section of the tau arsenal would be BS3, but I wont argue with it.
-The vehicle is a flyer, with hover (this we will get into in a sec)
-can be in units of up to 5
-has shrouded...  THIS was the first big holy crap moment. 2+ jink?! Yes please! Not to mention, that with hover, this unit can plant itself in ruins, and collect a permanant 2+ cover save (since they have a very low profile, it isnt hard to acquire 25% coverage) or once again jink at any time to maintain a 2+ cover save. Suddenly that 10/10/10 2HP statline isn't SUCH a problem anymore, and in large units, this squadron is actually impressively difficult to remove.
-Deep strike: This... is stupendous. This applies to the immense flexibility of this unit, you can put it exactly where you need to. More of this to come.
So its survivability is actually quite impressive, but how about its damage output?
Well for those 90 points you get:
-twin linked long barreled burst cannon (36" range S5 ap5 heavy 6, not too shabby)
-2 stock seeker missiles
-NETWORKED marker light
Holy crap, a super burst cannon that is twin linked, 2 stock seeker missiles AND a networked marker light? The damage output and flexibility of this unit is incredible. Not only do you have a fairly long range anti-infantry/ light vehicle weapon, but you also have 2 anti-tank/ MC shots, and a markerlight to boost the unit or boost another unit. As a flyer, it can fire all of its weapons in 1 turn! One cannot argue the flexibility of this unit, it has the ability to take on just about anything, perhaps not prolonged combat against High AV vehicles, but enough of a 1 off to put a good dent in one. Another source of markerlights is absolutely welcomed, and applying the markerlights to the unit itself turns this unit from a nuisance to SCARY.
A full unit of 5 is 450 points, expensive but not CRAZY for 10 HP, 2+ jink, 30 TL S5 shots, 10 seeker missiles and 5 markerlights. I would never take them in non-maxed units, as this gives them the flexibilty, the footprint and the firepower to threaten just about anything on the board. Pesky monstrous creature in cover? markerlight it, strip its cover and waste it, all from one unit. Need to hit backfield rear armor? Deep strike them behind enemy lines, they are smaller than piranhas so not too large a footprint for it to not be done. Need objectives? Hover and suddenly they become scarier and more adaptable piranhas
All in all this unit impresses the hell out of me, and exemplifies everything that is tau, mainly tactical flexibility.
Things this unit has been useful against (in my experience)includes, but is not limited to:
-Flying monstrous creatures
-Regular monstrous creatures, including wraithknights: 10 possibly BS5 or cover ignoring krak missiles is nothing to scoff at
-cover entrenched hordes: like imperial guard blobs, ork hordes, etc
-Low AV tanks
-low rear AV tanks: deepstriking behind plasma russes is hilarious!
-deeply entrenched artillery platforms and tanks: once again, as a flyer with deep strike, you should be able to on the turn they arrive, get within 36" of anything on the board
-fast high defense units: like Jinking jetbikes, regular bikes, etc.
-deathstars: ( IC sitting in front tanking all the shots? Deep strike or outmaneuver around him and waste the rest of the unit)
- MSU armies: I know they can only engage one unit per turn, but there is very little more frustrating than leaving one guy alive in like a 5 man marine squad with objective secured.
-Flyers: not necessarily their best application unless you can hit rear armor, but 10 krak missiles will still put a dent in just about anything.
Oh and I forgot to mention, they occupy the most unused Force Organization slot in the tau codex, FAST ATTACK!
Give 'em a try sometime!
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/01 22:34:34
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Nice overview! All I think of is how much fun it would be to crush them in combat - I would hope that they would be DS into the heart of my swarm! Lol... seems like a pretty fun unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/01 22:45:44
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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I disagree with the non-maxed unit. 450p is a LOT of points (most than any Knight). I'd rather go 3 models (less than 300p) that are suffice to do their job. 3 ML at BS3 will score 2 - giving them BS 5 for the burst cannons or 2 seeker missiles ignoring cover and LoS (or all seekers at BS5).
Besides, DSing 5 Remoras is dangerous (they're large).
That aside, I like the unit (I rather Barracudas, though). It's better than both codex flyers.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/01 23:12:24
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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I do agree it is a lot of points, no argument there. 3 Will only score 1.5 marker lights, not 2, so you will either hit 2 OR 1 on average. I would say 4 min is required, for 2 average markerlights, and the general ability to engage most targets.
Barracudas are good for sure, no doubt there!
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 02:52:17
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Actually I would say Fast Attack is the most frequently used slot in the Tau codex; Pathfinders, ML Drones, Piranhas, Gundrone squads, SunShark and that is just in the codex, Forgeworld adds even more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 07:41:08
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Eh... Elites, and HS surely?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 08:44:17
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Executing Exarch
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Just to be sure you are clear on the rules. As the remora drone is a flyer it must start in reserve and so cannot start on the board and shoot turn 1.
I actually really like the remora drones. Small units to DS behind the opponent's flyers and waveserpents are my favorite though. The turn they DS in they usually shoot everything into side or rear armour using the markerlights to buff the seeker missile shots and possibly gain ignore cover. This way they can actually make a mess of even waveserpents. They usually get shot at after that and so the rest of the game they zoom around snap firing the TL S5 guns into targets and gaining a very decent cover save. (average 2 hits per drone btw, not bad).
IMO the network markerlights combined with seeker missiles and DS are the secret sauce that complements the shrouded + TL main gun combo that lets them do work throughout a game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 09:05:28
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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ansacs wrote:Just to be sure you are clear on the rules. As the remora drone is a flyer it must start in reserve and so cannot start on the board and shoot turn 1.
Oh for sure, I am sorry if I said something somewhere that put that into question. In general, they have just been remarkably useful. Flyers have phased out somewhat in my meta (save for wolves and occasional other ones), but fmc are still plentiful. I have yet to have a bad game with them, they have been late a few times, but everytime they have come in they have done remarkably well.
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 11:26:58
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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gameandwatch wrote:I do agree it is a lot of points, no argument there. 3 Will only score 1.5 marker lights, not 2, so you will either hit 2 OR 1 on average. I would say 4 min is required, for 2 average markerlights, and the general ability to engage most targets.
Barracudas are good for sure, no doubt there!
WEll, TL BS4 is good still. 4 Remoras in 1 squad is too many in my view. I'd use 2x2.
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:54:55
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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True story salesman, BS4 TL is very good. I just personally think that 2 is just too few, a bit of a nuisance but no real threat. My own opinion, but ymmv.
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 17:57:10
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 18:06:17
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Mavnas wrote:I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
OH yeah, if hovering, cover ignoring stuff like serpents, and if somehow something with skyfire has ignores cover, then yes, very problematic.
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/15 11:15:12
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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gameandwatch wrote:Mavnas wrote:I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
OH yeah, if hovering, cover ignoring stuff like serpents, and if somehow something with skyfire has ignores cover, then yes, very problematic.
Once you're forced to jink, you won't be doing much other than a few S5 hits a turn.
But even with that, I would take them.
2x2 means that you have to make twice the futile effort to quite them.
They pack just enough firepower where you don't want to ignore them.
Unit of 5 is problematic, as once they jink, you are no longer acting like a 450 point unit.
You want to maximize your opponent making you jink. He's trading a lot more firepower than your giving up.
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/02 20:24:52
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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gameandwatch wrote:Mavnas wrote:I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
OH yeah, if hovering, cover ignoring stuff like serpents, and if somehow something with skyfire has ignores cover, then yes, very problematic.
Yeah, I was just thinking if only there were some sort of thing with networked marker lights that was a flyer so that at it could sky fire and ignore cover...
Remoras, their own hard counter lol.
(Also guardsmen on a quad gun who can get the right order.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 00:10:03
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mavnas wrote: gameandwatch wrote:Mavnas wrote:I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
OH yeah, if hovering, cover ignoring stuff like serpents, and if somehow something with skyfire has ignores cover, then yes, very problematic.
Yeah, I was just thinking if only there were some sort of thing with networked marker lights that was a flyer so that at it could sky fire and ignore cover...
Remoras, their own hard counter lol.
(Also guardsmen on a quad gun who can get the right order.)
And several Tau flyers (maybe all of them) and a Skyray
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 00:41:00
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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HawaiiMatt wrote: gameandwatch wrote:Mavnas wrote:I feel like these might be really strong until you run into cover ignoring fire, at which point they will melt.
OH yeah, if hovering, cover ignoring stuff like serpents, and if somehow something with skyfire has ignores cover, then yes, very problematic.
Once you're forced to jink, you won't be doing much other than a few S5 hits a turn.
But even with that, I would take them.
2x2 means that you have to make twice the futile effort to quite them.
They pack just enough firepower where you don't want to ignore them.
Unit of 5 is problematic, as once they jink, you are no longer acting like a 450 point unit.
You want to maximize your opponent making you jink. He's trading a lot more firepower than your giving up.
-Matt
Yeah, this is true for most, but I pack a lot of ablative lights in silly units like sniper drones and such, so I am throwing lights all over the place! hahaha
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 06:33:01
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Douglas Bader
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HawaiiMatt wrote:Once you're forced to jink, you won't be doing much other than a few S5 hits a turn.
That's why you jink for a 2+ and then fly off the table to set up a better shot next turn. With flyers you just have to accept that you'll often be using them every other turn, and make sure that on the turns when they do come on you have a good target for them.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 08:20:09
Subject: Re:Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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The problem with Remora is simple.
A singular Remora is though to kill for its price, but not very threatening.
Their damage output is initially low, but thanks to the networked markerlights they are an exponential unit-each team member makes each other team member stronger.
This means the big teams are getting quite lethal actually-but than they lose the maneuverability and durability edge of the smaller teams-as jink becomes far more crippling.
In my opinion Remora are "go big or go home", even a pair is not much of a threat and are outdone by other tau flyers. its the quad-penta teams that are true powerhouses.
So run them as 4-5 to have that powerful initial barrage, than when remoras start falling shift tactics to the low/pair of survivor hovercraft that is more trouble to remove than its worth.
As for why its a drone with BS3-its a big drone. it has a bigger computer?
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 09:49:16
Subject: Re:Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Rampaging Carnifex
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BoomWolf wrote:As for why its a drone with BS3-its a big drone. it has a bigger computer?
Your logic is sound.
As for the escalation in threat level per model theory, I also agree with you. That has definitely been my experience, and I will continue to stick with them in groups of four to five. As per them compared to other tau flyers, I was never arguing that they are the BEST or BETTER than just that they suprised me as ro just how good they are. And lets be real here, not counting super heavies, when " other tau flyers" are mentioned, you mean the barracuda, cause the codex ones are poopy. The barracuda is an excellent boat, a little flimsy, but brings the pain if allowed to persist
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Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 11:29:15
Subject: Re:Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Well, the razor has his good points as well actually (being the only flyer I know of with a 360" firing arc on a S7 multi-shot gun makes him a good rear armor hunter)
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 20:55:53
Subject: Re:Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Douglas Bader
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BoomWolf wrote:Well, the razor has his good points as well actually (being the only flyer I know of with a 360" firing arc on a S7 multi-shot gun makes him a good rear armor hunter)
Now do the math and compare it to the Barracuda. Even if the Barracuda can only use its 360* turret burst cannons it inflicts more HP damage against AV 10 (the most common rear armor) than the quad ion gun. To beat it with the codex flyer you need markerlight support, which brings the point cost up even more. And of course if the Barracuda can use its ion cannon and missile pods this comparison isn't even close.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/03 22:10:08
Subject: Tau remora drone fighters are pretty darn great.
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Executing Exarch
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Actually the remora drones have their largest damage dealing capacity when they first come on the board. This is when they have not been forced to jink, still have their full payloard of seeker missiles, and so can fire 2 BS5 seeker missiles each. After this they are likely to end up jinking every turn they are on the board (thus peregrines suggestion to fly off and back on is very good). Everytime they have to snap fire the markerlights become almost negligible and each remora will average ~2 Str 5 hits.
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