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Hello everyone. I'm fairly new to reading the WH40k novels. I have read a lot of wiki articles and such, as well as most of the codices. I read Helsreach, which was pretty good, and then I started reading the Horus Heresy books, and I am almost done with Galaxy in Flames.

Anyway, I have been a little bit confused while reading the Horus Heresy books. I thought that a lot of the more gothic elements were a result of 10,000 years without the emperor, and I was surprised for them to pop up early on.Some of them I can understand somewhat, like the use of Servitors, since they are a response to the Men of Iron. However, they seem pretty disrespectful to the human form to be allowed to be used under the Emperor.

I just have a few questions that maybe someone can help me understand.

1. Why do Chaplains wear skull helmets during the Heresy? I thought that the skull was supposed to be the visage of the emperor who, prior to the heresy, didn't have a skull face since he was still alive.
2. There are some things present prior to the heresy that seem to not jive well with the Imperial Truth. For example, Loken talks about rituals of mourning and the World Eaters are described as wearing oath scrolls. I thought that the emperor would forbid things like oaths and that these things would arise over millennias of a society worshipping the emperor, which was forbidden at that time. Oaths and rituals seem to imply a higher power that the imperium shouldn't believe in.
3. Do Space Marines worship the emperor in 41M? They are described as having times for prayer, but also as not worshipping the emperor, other than the Black Templars (or not), so I am confused. To whom do they pray, if not the Emperor?


I'm sure that I'll think of more and add them, since I've been confused in a lot of the first 3 heresy books.

Thanks

1. The Word Bearers (technically the Imperial Heralds at the time) were the first to create the classic image of a chaplain. They sent them as the first representative of their legion to a new world, to tell them of the Imperial Truth and convince them to join the Imperium. This image then got adopted by other legions, primarily to enforce the edict of Nikea, which was in effect at the time of Istvaan, but also to perform and hold to the rites and traditions of the legion's heritage. Not all legions made use of them initially. Off the top of my head, the Word Bearers, Emperor's Children, Salamanders, and Blood Angels did, but I'm sure others did as well.

2.They most certainly do not imply a higher power. Oaths and rituals may be made on ones personal honor, which among space marines is quite an important part of who they are.

3.Some chapters do but they're in the minority. Most chapters believe that the Emperor is, and always has been, a man. A very powerful man, but just a man. There are thousands upon thousands of different interpretations of the Emperor's divinity, ranging from he became a god when he was placed on the golden throne, to he was always a god and never revealed it, to he only exists as a manifestation of the combined will of humanity.

Chapters that believe in the God-Emperor as a divine being all have different reasons for doing so. The Black Templars, which is a recent ret-con but I personally believe it makes sense that they worship him, I'd say generally believe because their founder, Sigismund was influenced by the first saint of the Lectitio Divinitatus, essentially the first believers in the Emperor's divinity. By comparison, the Fire Angels, who also believe in his divinity, accept the God-Emperor as presented by the Ecclesiarchy, and all of the years of dogma that come with it. There are other chapters that believe in the God-Emperor, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Okay cool but, why the skull then? If the skull is supposed to represent the emperor, then why would a pre heresy chaplain use the skull?

There's a fair amount of 40K creep that bleeds into the Horus Heresy novels, and I'd attribute that more to author oversight than anything else.

I'm guessing the skull doesn't represent the Emperor pre heresy, and is just a skull.

Regarding the oath papers and scrolls, it's really only the Word Bearers who did this to revere the Emperor, most of the other legions have oath papers and Oaths of moment, but they were more about swearing to fight as brothers alongside the other men of the Legion.

1: Its a frightening image. Same as in 40k. Imagone fighting against Space Marines. Now imagine one of them was dressed like Death, standing in the thick of it, roaring out things like "By your right hand rip the throats from their treachery! By your left smite the enemies of man! By your gift of the Emperor's own flesh, burn them all to cinder and ash!"

2: Rituals of mourning would be a military funeral. Oaths can be taken on anything. Just the fact is that in modern day Earth there has always been deities to swear before, and so people do. In 30k Space Marines swear on their loyalty, their brothers and their honour.

The space marines DON'T worship the Emperor - not as such.

They venerate the MAN, as their progenitor, but not as a god. This is a diversion from the standard "imperial creed" but tends to be overlooked by many of those rite-bound bell-ends in the ministorum on the grounds of practicality.

"Yes, it's technically heresy - but they're OUR heretics."

There are actually a number of chapters that do worship the Emperor as a god.

jareddm wrote:
There are actually a number of chapters that do worship the Emperor as a god.

Yep. I even have a list, culled from a number of sources:

The Fire Hawks are one, prior to becoming the LotD, having been one of the first to the fight during the Age of Apostasy, in support of Sebastian Thor (and did, in fact, get awarded a Heresy-era Battle Barge by him, iirc, as Vandire had destroyed their homeworld). (IA v9, C:UM 2E, WH40K Comp, WD 99, C:Assassins 3E)

The Adulators were mentioned in a Chapter Approved article, of which it is said (according to Lexicanum) "The chapter is steeped in the ways of the Ecclesiarchy and are on close terms with their holy orders". (Chapter Approved 2001, Blood of Asaheim(BL) )

The Angels Revenant were said to be "stern supporters of the Imperial Creed". (Chapter Approved 2001, IA v12)

The White Consuls also worship the Emperor as a god, which is noted for being unusual for the Astartes. (WH40K BRB 5E, C:UM, C: EoT, DW: Rites of Battle, C: SM 6E ebook)

The Doom Eagles are "notoriously pious". (DW: Honour the Chapter, Legends of the Space Marines anthology, several BL novels/stories)

The Fire Angels (a UM Successor) are zealously dedicated to the Creed. Of them, it is said, "they do not revere their ancestral primarch (Roboute Guilliman) as most chapters do, believing this to be a form of idolatry". (IA v9)

The Red Scorpions, who developed the Helios-pattern Land Raider, are seriously in the Emp-worshipping camp. (IA v4, v6, v7, v9, WD 101, WD 105)

And then there are the Storm Wardens, from FFG's Deathwatch RPG. Not a GW Chapter, obviously, but one more for the pile.

One can make arguments for the Angels Resplendent/Angels Penitent, the Brazen Skulls, the Celebrants, the Crimson Fists, the Templars of Blood, and the Novamarines, though these Chapters are not outright said to worship the God-Emperor (but elements to what lore there is about them suggests such an arrangement)

Don't forget the Black Templar

Sorry, touchy subject.

Well, yes, but that's newer than when I compiled the above list... and was always something that many people already assumed.