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I'm a relative newcomer to the world of miniature wargames. I really like 40k and my local meta heavily favors 40k. I hear so many positive things about Fanstasy that I'm wondering if I should shift my focus. I have a Skaven army that I'm starting and I was just wondering if I should push Fantasy in my meta. What makes Fanstasy better?

How many players in your area regularly play fantasy?

As for how I personally feel about fantasy is that yes it is a better game. 40k for me is more of a short game with some unbalanced aspects but its still fun to play.

Fantasy is much more enjoyable for me because there are many competitive builds for most armies (tomb kings, beastmen aside). I feel movement requires more thinking and planning ahead. Magic phase is fun and plays a large role it can be pretty annoying tho sometimes when there are a ton of wizards on the field.
Overall I feel that it is just a more tactical game and is more enjoyable to try all the many possible builds for each army and learning your own army.

People will say fantasy costs more because of higher model count but at the same time 40k has more large models that cost more so I personally believe that cost is very comparable.

Personally I switched from 40k to fan6tasy & couldn't be happier.

Every new 40k dex is more "streamlined" read: bland and sections off content for supplements and dataslates at a rate that rivals EA.

Where as every new fantasy book brings new units / characters and while yes we have lost a lot of unique magic items (the BRB still has plenty), we haven't seen a new book drop that literally gives us LESS than the previous *cough* Dark Eldar *cough*.

Fantasy feels more balanced, I can't point at any one hardcover book & scream "trash" or "cheese". While true TK may need an experienced general to play right & nurgle daemons with khorne cannons can pretty much push forward there are counters & a good player can turn a battle easily because HOW you use is more important than WHAT you use.

One of my local players put it best "40k is pizza & pop. Fantasy is beer & pretzels." Take that however you want I hope my insight helps.

Median Trace wrote:What makes Fanstasy better?

The players.

WHFB attracts an older audience and it really shows. Go to the 40k forums and watch the trolls feast on each other's flesh. Meanwhile, go to the WHFB forums and watch people crating "is X viable?" or "what are the army tiers in WHFB?" threads and see how quickly the OP gets booed off stage so that everyone else can talk about something more worthwhile.

I think the "beer and pretzels vs. coke and pizza" analogy might well come from the fact that a large minority of 40k players aren't yet old enough to buy a beer. Sometimes it's nice not to have to deal with quite so spastic people all the time.

I'm looking to get into Fantasy as well, only concered about the update rotations and it seems no one plays it!

If you're playing skaven no doubt you bought Island Of Blood.

Paint up the High Elves and invite your best gaming buddy round and play a little narrative campaign using the models.

See if you have more fun or not than you do with 40K.

If you both do then the switch to WHFB will occur naturally

I personally play both. Though I will say I tend to like fantasy better because I have a good group of people to play with who are super laid back.

Each game has its own merits. Personally, I prefer fantasy as it's got a tighter ruleset, more tactics involved and, most importantly, still fun. It also helps that I'm a big fan of the Fantasy genre as a whole too. That's not to say I don't enjoy 40k, because I do. 40k can get a bit overboard sometimes and I'm fairly sure GW puts less thought into it, but, with the right people, you can still have some great, balanced games.

WHFB's main shortcoming is its playerbase, which is simply not as large as 40k's, at least on a worldwide scale. If there are plenty of fantasy players in your area, I see no reason for you not to start it up but, on the other hand, if you're going to struggle to find a game, it's sadly not worth it, no matter how much you think you'll enjoy it.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

I play both 40k and Fantasy and enjoy fantasy much more than 40k.
Getting people to play fantasy is really difficult.
In my area that has mostly do with the style of games. Fantasy imo is more about tactics than list building.and in my area people want the big win button.

If fantasy is what you really want, go for it.
If it is really what you want the efforts to get people to play will be worth it.
Make the initial investment, buy the Island of Blood box and let others use the models to try it and see if you can hook them.

 Throt wrote:
I play both 40k and Fantasy and enjoy fantasy much more than 40k.
Getting people to play fantasy is really difficult.
In my area that has mostly do with the style of games. Fantasy imo is more about tactics than list building.and in my area people want the big win button.

If fantasy is what you really want, go for it.
If it is really what you want the efforts to get people to play will be worth it.
Make the initial investment, buy the Island of Blood box and let others use the models to try it and see if you can hook them.

Another big thing, at least for me, is freedom of movement for the armys. In 40k you can pose models anyway you want and spread them out.... you cannot in most WHFB formations if they are to fit on the trays.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Throt wrote:
I play both 40k and Fantasy and enjoy fantasy much more than 40k.
Getting people to play fantasy is really difficult.
In my area that has mostly do with the style of games. Fantasy imo is more about tactics than list building.and in my area people want the big win button.

If fantasy is what you really want, go for it.
If it is really what you want the efforts to get people to play will be worth it.
Make the initial investment, buy the Island of Blood box and let others use the models to try it and see if you can hook them.

Another big thing, at least for me, is freedom of movement for the armys. In 40k you can pose models anyway you want and spread them out.... you cannot in most WHFB formations if they are to fit on the trays.

Most of the newer kits are actually pretty good about ranking up properly. I think Daemons are probably the worst army right now for not ranking up, as Horrors & Bloodletters are all but impossible, (Horrors especially), while Daemonettes can be a pain if you're not really paying attention.

But seriously, Pink Horrors are on the same level of "never, ever going to rank up!" as the old 6th ed 'monkey rats' Skaven were. Ranking-up with those arms are literally like learning to play Tetris by starting at Lv99!


VC Ghouls are pretty awful as well, and Orc players tend to say terrible things about ranking up their Black Orcs...

I too am from 40k to fantasy and liking it more, most everything can be used in an army without being shunned or said to be overly useless, its like a cool breeze.

Personally just started up some High Elves while the girlfriend has gone Ogre Kingdoms and we both are digging it right now, with The End Times revving up and more and more (hopefully playful and nice) people coming to fantasy I can see it only getting better.

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
I too am from 40k to fantasy and liking it more, most everything can be used in an army without being shunned or said to be overly useless, its like a cool breeze.

Personally just started up some High Elves while the girlfriend has gone Ogre Kingdoms and we both are digging it right now, with The End Times revving up and more and more (hopefully playful and nice) people coming to fantasy I can see it only getting better.

Disagree...doomflayer is useless in every way lol

But in general most things can be used it just depends how competitive you want to get. There are some armies the require extremely specific builds to even stand a chance (see beastmen) but then again those are older books

I think people will get into fantasy more now with end times because we are getting new kits that have awesome models new books with good rules and overall it hopefully will boost the popularity (not that I play at my gaming store often, just with friends in most cases)

In general, Fantasy has a more tactical movement. Most games, regardless of chance, are decided in the movement phase. Placement of units during deployment, planning ahead, and risk management are all huge.

In general, the magic phase is more enjoyable and interactive for both players than the psyker phase in 40k.

Though some armies do shooting very well, typically the game is won or lost in close combat. Most games in 40k are shooting based with movement and assault taking a backseat to simple target priority and luck.

Larger army diversity in general. Different armies have massively different statlines for troops, magical lores, viable strategies. Not saying it doesn't exist in 40k but fantasy runs a much wider gamut.

And of course, the new army books aren't complete garbage. Although I have heard very good things about the Dark Eldar book.

With End Times going on and generally decent balance between the army books, there's never been a more exciting time to start Fantasy IMO.

I like both games. There are different reasons to play each game. I get less of an opportunity to play Fantasy because my besties play 40k exclusively. I have a hard time getting a game anyways, because my work hours are the opposite of a regular human's. I mostly build and paint, which is something you should definitely consider in your decision.

While of course you have to play the game with other people, there is a great deal of solitary, individual effort put into. The huge majority of the time you will spend on the hobby is on getting your army ready for the table, unless you want shabby gray plastic legion.

40k I love because all of my work on individual models can be seen, because they give each other breathing room and space. In Fantasy your front rank get the most attention and you could get away with not even painting the pants and boots of the back ranks. A cool thing I have been seeing lately is unit fillers, which is where you put little dioramas and groups of troops together in bigger bases. This helps alleviate some ranking stress and adds character.

It's also about what army you dig. I'll never give up 40k completely because Space Wolves. I get my Ork fix with a K these days, but I started Fantasy with Orcs with a C. I've had Beastmen, currently play Empire, and will have a Warriors of Chaos army once I get some core to go with my plethora of Lords.

Also, as far as Fantasy goes: End Times. 'Nuff said.

i like a bit of both. they both have very different play styles. 40k is more forgiving in that you can usually cover for the odd mistake.

fantasy you really need to have the right strategy from the start. so is less forgiving if you mess up, that to me is a positive.

You'll find lots of people play fantasy, but don't have it with them or don't bring their models because it's not as popular as it is with 40k.

Games-mechanics wise, I like Fantasy a lot better.

You will have a harder time finding people to play with, but that's true of almost anything that's not 40k.

It is a little frustrating to keep hearing that 9th edition is around the corner, and that they're contemplating a rather dramatic overhaul when maybe a few tweaks would do.

ComTrav wrote:
You'll find lots of people play fantasy, but don't have it with them or don't bring their models because it's not as popular as it is with 40k.

Games-mechanics wise, I like Fantasy a lot better.

You will have a harder time finding people to play with, but that's true of almost anything that's not 40k.

It is a little frustrating to keep hearing that 9th edition is around the corner, and that they're contemplating a rather dramatic overhaul when maybe a few tweaks would do.

Any idea when this will happen? i dont want to drop a nice chunk of change on the rulebook just to have it update a week later.

Too much of 40K is determined during list building before the first die is ever rolled....

Experiment 626 wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Throt wrote:
I play both 40k and Fantasy and enjoy fantasy much more than 40k.
Getting people to play fantasy is really difficult.
In my area that has mostly do with the style of games. Fantasy imo is more about tactics than list building.and in my area people want the big win button.

If fantasy is what you really want, go for it.
If it is really what you want the efforts to get people to play will be worth it.
Make the initial investment, buy the Island of Blood box and let others use the models to try it and see if you can hook them.

Another big thing, at least for me, is freedom of movement for the armys. In 40k you can pose models anyway you want and spread them out.... you cannot in most WHFB formations if they are to fit on the trays.

Most of the newer kits are actually pretty good about ranking up properly. I think Daemons are probably the worst army right now for not ranking up, as Horrors & Bloodletters are all but impossible, (Horrors especially), while Daemonettes can be a pain if you're not really paying attention.

But seriously, Pink Horrors are on the same level of "never, ever going to rank up!" as the old 6th ed 'monkey rats' Skaven were. Ranking-up with those arms are literally like learning to play Tetris by starting at Lv99!


VC Ghouls are pretty awful as well, and Orc players tend to say terrible things about ranking up their Black Orcs...

I feel the pain. Make unit fillers to help with the particularily difficult times.
I have made great use of unit fillers for my horrors which solves the ranking problem and looks great. It still can be a little difficult because of the spindly fingers, but its much easier.
I'll use giant rats to fill in the difficult spots with Stormvermin.
I have just started adding Bloodletters and learning the pains. I will have to come up with a creative filler.
All said and done the blocks of infantry look great all together imo.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

Any idea when this will happen? i dont want to drop a nice chunk of change on the rulebook just to have it update a week later.

You really won't know until about a week before. The book itself is gorgeous and full of good stuff besides rules. If you want Skaven or High Elves get Island of Blood and minis justify cost.

The End Times books seem to be slowly rewriting the rulebook.

I play both systems, mainly because I loved Tomb Kings and just couldn't help but learn the game and start collecting the models. Though, in my area, it is hard to find games. I've almost finished painting my Nagash and haven't been able to play him at all since I got him.

But in comparison, Fantasy seems a lot more balanced, especially since, as Tomb Kings, I can make several builds/lists and with the right strategy, can make it work. There isn't a "bad" unit in the book, you just have to know how to use it. In 40k, it's become an Arms Race. Who has the biggest guns, the most special rules, and there you go. It's less about strategy, and more "point-n-click" for your victory. Fantasy is not that.

Romour mill says:



Book 2 with Chaos in October.

Book 3 with Skaven in January.

Book 4 with other Forces in March.

Short after this the 9th Edition comes. The Rulebook comes at the same time like 40k 7th in 2014.

 chiefbigredman wrote:


Disagree...doomflayer is useless in every way lol

But in general most things can be used it just depends how competitive you want to get. There are some armies the require extremely specific builds to even stand a chance (see beastmen) but then again those are older books

I think people will get into fantasy more now with end times because we are getting new kits that have awesome models new books with good rules and overall it hopefully will boost the popularity (not that I play at my gaming store often, just with friends in most cases)

I cheerfully disagree. Doomflayers have uses.

d3 impact hits and 2-10 s4 auto hits gives you 3-13 pottential with a -2 save is decent. Provided no misfire of course, but that is the skaven curse.
Would you charge a unit of stormvermin into the flank of a unit?
Why not have the doomflayer do it. for a fraction of the cost?
The small base limits the return attacks and gives it great mobility so its easier to hit the flank than with a block.
4+ ward from shooting
3+ save in combat helps keep it around.
I have no complaints with them even though many do.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Romour mill says:



Book 2 with Chaos in October.

Book 3 with Skaven in January.

Book 4 with other Forces in March.

Short after this the 9th Edition comes. The Rulebook comes at the same time like 40k 7th in 2014.

January has to come faster......Skaven....I just want mooooore Skaven.
I want plastic vermin lord and plastic jezzails (jezzails won't happen) but if this is true then this will probably be one of the things I actually preorder. I never preorder stuff but I have never experienced a Skaven release before so pretty stoked about it....but January is so far away....boohoo


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 Throt wrote:


I cheerfully disagree. Doomflayers have uses.

d3 impact hits and 2-10 s4 auto hits gives you 3-13 pottential with a -2 save is decent. Provided no misfire of course, but that is the skaven curse.
Would you charge a unit of stormvermin into the flank of a unit?
Why not have the doomflayer do it. for a fraction of the cost?
The small base limits the return attacks and gives it great mobility so its easier to hit the flank than with a block.
4+ ward from shooting
3+ save in combat helps keep it around.
I have no complaints with them even though many do.

I agree that it seems fairly good but I just don't like two things about it.
Initiative 3
Wounds 1

This restricts the uses of it for me anyways. If you get it into a situation against I3 units then it hits at the same time and it will die first combat most likely.

I mean its not horrible but not my favourite at all lol 3+ armour save is nice tho compared to the other weapon teams


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P.s sorry for taking this off track a bit