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Hey guys, so after reading up, I'm trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Since the LRC has Relentless, it can either get 6 bolter shots per Hurricane bolter at 24" or 12 bolter shots at 12" range. Is that correct? Also, are there any real drawbacks to this idea? And do bolt pistols fall into this?

Side note: if this really works, I'm an idiot for not using it.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Hey guys, so after reading up, I'm trying to make sure I understand this correctly. Since the LRC has Relentless, it can either get 6 bolter shots per Hurricane bolter at 24" or 12 bolter shots at 12" range. Is that correct? Also, are there any real drawbacks to this idea? And do bolt pistols fall into this?

Side note: if this really works, I'm an idiot for not using it.

you get 12 bolter shots at 24'' range per hurricane bolter. Salvo is the first number of shots at half range if the model moved and the second number of shots at full range if the model didn't move. Relentless means they use the 2nd number at full range even when moving.

That's AWESOME. That's what I was trying to make sure of, never used Salvo weapons before

Range has no bearing on salvo weapons. First number is moved, second number is not moved. Relentless counts as not moved, therefore you always fire 4 shots/bolter at full range.

 Thairne wrote:
Range has no bearing on salvo weapons. First number is moved, second number is not moved. Relentless counts as not moved, therefore you always fire 4 shots/bolter at full range.

Incorrect - range does have bearing on Salvo weapons. If you moved, you get the first number at half range.
Since vehicles are Relentless this doesn't apply, of course, but it's better to correct an inaccuracy than let it live.

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect - range does have bearing on Salvo weapons. If you moved, you get the first number at half range.
Since vehicles are Relentless this doesn't apply, of course, but it's better to correct an inaccuracy than let it live.

Wrong. Thairne actually had it entirely correctly.

Range does not affect salvo weapons; salvo weapons affect effective range.

(if you're going to be pedantic and all...)

More importantly, a dakka banner would let your crusaders fire off the 24 twin-linked full range bolter shots and let your bike squads also fire 4 twin-linked bolter shots apiece as well.



I think if you pack in tight you can get about 30 bikes within 6" of the hull (not a good idea if your opponent has AP3 or better blasts). This would give you an impressive total of 144 twin-linked bolter shots at full range and twice that many at half range.

You'll probably never get to see this go off but it would be amazing.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
More importantly, a dakka banner would let your crusaders fire off the 24 twin-linked full range bolter shots and let your bike squads also fire 4 twin-linked bolter shots apiece as well.



I think if you pack in tight you can get about 30 bikes within 6" of the hull (not a good idea if your opponent has AP3 or better blasts). This would give you an impressive total of 144 twin-linked bolter shots at full range and twice that many at half range.

You'll probably never get to see this go off but it would be amazing.

You would not get twice as many at half range. The banner changes the boltguns from rapid fire to salvo 2/4, so the 144 shots would be the most you could get and you could fire up to full range, and if the LCR and the bikes lost relentless and moved they would only be able to fire 72 shots at up to half range.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
More importantly, a dakka banner would let your crusaders fire off the 24 twin-linked full range bolter shots and let your bike squads also fire 4 twin-linked bolter shots apiece as well.



I think if you pack in tight you can get about 30 bikes within 6" of the hull (not a good idea if your opponent has AP3 or better blasts). This would give you an impressive total of 144 twin-linked bolter shots at full range and twice that many at half range.

You'll probably never get to see this go off but it would be amazing.

Well, my plan so far is to take 6 bikes and an attack bike and run them Police escort style in front of my tank so they still get the 4+ from the PFG

Fun fact: the Dakka Banner states that any UNIT in 12" gains the effect, not model. So all you have to do is place one bike per unit in range of the Banner and the other 5 bikes are effected too, since their unit is in the bubble

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
More importantly, a dakka banner would let your crusaders fire off the 24 twin-linked full range bolter shots and let your bike squads also fire 4 twin-linked bolter shots apiece as well.



I think if you pack in tight you can get about 30 bikes within 6" of the hull (not a good idea if your opponent has AP3 or better blasts). This would give you an impressive total of 144 twin-linked bolter shots at full range and twice that many at half range.

You'll probably never get to see this go off but it would be amazing.

You would not get twice as many at half range. The banner changes the boltguns from rapid fire to salvo 2/4, so the 144 shots would be the most you could get and you could fire up to full range, and if the LCR and the bikes lost relentless and moved they would only be able to fire 72 shots at up to half range.

yeah my mistake

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
More importantly, a dakka banner would let your crusaders fire off the 24 twin-linked full range bolter shots and let your bike squads also fire 4 twin-linked bolter shots apiece as well.



I think if you pack in tight you can get about 30 bikes within 6" of the hull (not a good idea if your opponent has AP3 or better blasts). This would give you an impressive total of 144 twin-linked bolter shots at full range and twice that many at half range.

You'll probably never get to see this go off but it would be amazing.

Well, my plan so far is to take 6 bikes and an attack bike and run them Police escort style in front of my tank so they still get the 4+ from the PFG

IIRC the e-codex still has the errata that says the PFG, doesn't extend outside of a transport. The paperback version has not been updated to reflect that (it was removed in 7th edition faq). No 100% sure which takes precedence here though. I would assume the e-codex as that is more recently updated.

As the online update did not include the PFG rule, most DA players are using their PFGs inside vehicles again.

Well, that kind of answers my question I was going to ask. So, the Dakka Banner extends outside the vehicle. Is there an errata for that or is it just RAW? And yeah, unless it's been FAQ'ed, I've been normally playing PFG as not extending outside the hull.

Dakka banner has always extended outside of the vehicle. PFG used to extend, a 6th ed FAQ stopped it, then a 7th ed FAQ removed the 6th ed's changes, so now at works as before.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Well, that kind of answers my question I was going to ask. So, the Dakka Banner extends outside the vehicle. Is there an errata for that or is it just RAW? And yeah, unless it's been FAQ'ed, I've been normally playing PFG as not extending outside the hull.

Page 78 under embarking. It's raw, same as any other time you need to measure to a unit.

Actually its Pg. 80 if you have the mini BRB. But yeah, RAW it says that, and since they took out the FAQ, PFGs for everybody!

 jreilly89 wrote:
Actually its Pg. 80 if you have the mini BRB. But yeah, RAW it says that, and since they took out the FAQ, PFGs for everybody!

And yet Orks are restricted to just the vehicle on their embarked KFF. Gotta love that GW consistency. How much would it cost GW to fix all this? One $30k guy running a wiki would be more than enough if they didn't ant to crowd source it via "Answer a FAQ, get it upvoted and win $3 of plastic (MSRP $50)" or some similar mechanism. The stuff that goes on for 4 pages on dakka would get cleaned up and handed to an actual games designer to vet.

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Actually its Pg. 80 if you have the mini BRB. But yeah, RAW it says that, and since they took out the FAQ, PFGs for everybody!

And yet Orks are restricted to just the vehicle on their embarked KFF. Gotta love that GW consistency. How much would it cost GW to fix all this? One $30k guy running a wiki would be more than enough if they didn't ant to crowd source it via "Answer a FAQ, get it upvoted and win $3 of plastic (MSRP $50)" or some similar mechanism. The stuff that goes on for 4 pages on dakka would get cleaned up and handed to an actual games designer to vet.

Yep, but there's plenty of stuff they should/could clean up besides, without my PFG, why play DA when I can play the superior SM, with plenty of bullgak Chapter Tactics?

I played this list at 2k points last week which was a lot of fun. I didn't lose any of the raiders thanks to venerable and PFG, even when deepstruck by 2 tau fusion battlesuit squads (it did help that the bolters shredded all marker lights before they came down).

Belial
Techmarine - PFG

DW command squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF - Banner of devestation

DW terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF
- LRC - MM, DW vehicle

DW terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF
- LRC - MM, DW vehicle

LRC - MM, DW vehicle

All the LRC stayed together until the final turns to get a nice 72 tl bolter shots a turn, and that all important 4++ save. Objective secured landraiders are fun too.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Yep, but there's plenty of stuff they should/could clean up besides, without my PFG, why play DA when I can play the superior SM, with plenty of bullgak Chapter Tactics?

There's no good answer to this question, even with the PFG.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Spoiler:

I played this list at 2k points last week which was a lot of fun. I didn't lose any of the raiders thanks to venerable and PFG, even when deepstruck by 2 tau fusion battlesuit squads (it did help that the bolters shredded all marker lights before they came down).

Belial
Techmarine - PFG

DW command squad - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF - Banner of devestation

DW terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF
- LRC - MM, DW vehicle

DW terminators - 4x TH/SS, 1x AC/CF
- LRC - MM, DW vehicle

LRC - MM, DW vehicle

All the LRC stayed together until the final turns to get a nice 72 tl bolter shots a turn, and that all important 4++ save. Objective secured landraiders are fun too.

That sounds like a blast TBH. So I'm playing a 3V3 1000 points each this Saturday and this is what I'm thinking of bringing.

HQ
Librarian
PFG

Command Squad
Banner of Devastation

Troops
Scouts x5
Camo Cloaks
Sniper Rifles

Fast Attack
Ravenwing Bikers x6
Plasma Gun x1
Attack Bike
Multimelta

Nephilim Jetfighter
Avenger Megabolter

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader

My plan is to run the Bikes in front of the LRC for maximum dakka and invuln saves, then use the scouts to camp and harass MCs and the Flyer to harass ground troops and light/medium tanks. What do you think?

I don't like nephilim, I'd personally get more bikes. Do you only need 1 troops choice?

Well because its such a wacky game, I decided to go unbound for this game. I want to try out the Nephilim because its such a pretty model and at only 3k I don't think there'll be much AA.