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Leo_the_Rat wrote: Another question that I thought that I'd ask here before going to YMtC. If I summon a unit of daemons do they benefit from my Legion's rule?
For example: If I had a Red Corsairs detachment and summoned a unit of bloodletters would they be allowed to advance and then charge without resorting to any rule other than the Legion rule?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Another question that I thought that I'd ask here before going to YMtC. If I summon a unit of daemons do they benefit from my Legion's rule?
For example: If I had a Red Corsairs detachment and summoned a unit of bloodletters would they be allowed to advance and then charge without resorting to any rule other than the Legion rule?
Not even in the slightest. They get no Subfaction traits, as they're not part of any detachment.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Are there any competitive builds making the rounds that go very Tzeentch heavy? Not a mono-God army, but at least 1-2 detachments of Tzeentch as its core?
I am trying to wrap my head around how Daemonic Ritual works. I understand the basics: You roll up to three dice and can summon a unit with a power level equal to or less than the total rolled.
What I don't understand is how reinforcement points work in conjunction with power level.
Let's say I roll a 8 with two dice and want to summon a unit of Plaguebearers. Can I then choose a number between 1-20 Plaguebearers depending on the amount of reinforcement points i have avaliable?
I am trying to wrap my head around how Daemonic Ritual works. I understand the basics: You roll up to three dice and can summon a unit with a power level equal to or less than the total rolled.
What I don't understand is how reinforcement points work in conjunction with power level.
Let's say I roll a 8 with two dice and want to summon a unit of Plaguebearers. Can I then choose a number between 1-20 Plaguebearers depending on the amount of reinforcement points i have avaliable?
No. You would be able to summon a unit up to power level 8. 10 Plaguebearers is 5PL, and 20 Plaguebearers is 10PL.
Let's say you have 135 Reinforcement Points and attempt to summon. You roll an 11. You can then summon a unit of up to 20 Plaguebearers (10PL). However, you must pay actual points for the unit you summon. You can thus summon 15 Plaguebearers OR 13 Plaguebearers with an icon, or 13 with a musician, or 12 with both icon and musician. You have then spent those 135 Reinforcement Points (or 133, or whatever, depending on actual choice) and cannot spend those Reinforcement Points on anything else.
If you had chosen to summon only 10 Plaguebearers with no options, that would cost 90 Reinforcement Points and you would have 45 remaining (which could be spent on say, a Beast of Nurgle, but that's about it that comes in units that cost 45 points or less)
To sum it up: PL determines how large of a unit you can summon, Reinforcement Points determines the actual size of the unit + any options.
I have two more questions regarding the stratagems in the Engine War Book.
Nurgling Infestation - Say I have a unit of 5 nurglings. 4 die to shooting. I use this strat and return two.
In the morale phase, I now have three nurglings left. Would I be at -2 or -4 for the morale test?
Acidic Slobber - Exactly when can I use this strat. Can i use it after I have made my hit rolls since that is the fight phase?
I have two more questions regarding the stratagems in the Engine War Book.
Nurgling Infestation - Say I have a unit of 5 nurglings. 4 die to shooting. I use this strat and return two.
In the morale phase, I now have three nurglings left. Would I be at -2 or -4 for the morale test?
Acidic Slobber - Exactly when can I use this strat. Can i use it after I have made my hit rolls since that is the fight phase?
Nurgling Infestation = -4, because you lost 4 bases from that unit this turn.
Acidic Slobber = Huh, yes, I suppose you can use it at any time during the Fight Phase. You could also theoretically do it after you've made your wound rolls I guess? Roll a bunch of 6s and go, "oh, I use Acidic Slobber!". Maybe that wouldn't work, because you'd have to at least use the Stratagem before making the wound rolls? Poorly worded.
4++, -1 to wound vs ranged attacks, -1 to be hit period, cannot re-roll to hit against him.
+4s -4ap D3+3 with ignore invuln saves on the sword, and an alternate weaker sweep attack.
hopefully he will stop shutting off loci for taking him.
He is looking pretty beastly. I am wondering if Belakor is going to get a special rule kind of like "dynastic agents" for necrons that allow him to be included in any chaos army without breaking army rules up. He really should be allowed.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Need to see his other stats and whether he is classed as a supreme commander or superheavy before deciding how he would fit in a list. But yeah I agree, he is looking very nifty right now. And of course, he is also an awesome looking model too. A very good centerpiece model to have.
Sigh, I am sad that I have khorne, tzeenth and nurgle daemons, but the one set of daemons I do not have is slanaash and yet, they are the best daemons to have right now... lol
Okay so ended up buying(well will buy) whole bunch of tzeentch daemons for AOS. Have some(very few) khorne and slaanesh daemons. Anyway started thinking this might be getting me close to fielding daemon army for 40k as well...
So how are tzeentch daemons? Would I be walking carpet with tzeentch daemons? (well that would be ironic. In AOS tzeentch is likely best chaos faction).
I will have about this:
about 110 Horrors Pink 54/ blue 26 /brim 30
Kairos
6 kpl screamers
2 herald
Changeling
9 flamers
3 exalted flamers
3 burning chariot with regular flamers
Ahriman(wonder what I'll be using this for...)
2 daemon princes, soul grinder, skulltaker, about 20 bloodletters, 3 or 6 bloodcrushers, masque, 20 daemonettes, 5 seekers for rest of daemons what I have. Oh and old be'lakor.
tneva82 wrote: Okay so ended up buying(well will buy) whole bunch of tzeentch daemons for AOS. Have some(very few) khorne and slaanesh daemons. Anyway started thinking this might be getting me close to fielding daemon army for 40k as well...
So how are tzeentch daemons? Would I be walking carpet with tzeentch daemons? (well that would be ironic. In AOS tzeentch is likely best chaos faction).
I will have about this:
about 110 Horrors Pink 54/ blue 26 /brim 30
Kairos
6 kpl screamers
2 herald
Changeling
9 flamers
3 exalted flamers
3 burning chariot with regular flamers
Ahriman(wonder what I'll be using this for...)
2 daemon princes, soul grinder, skulltaker, about 20 bloodletters, 3 or 6 bloodcrushers, masque, 20 daemonettes, 5 seekers for rest of daemons what I have. Oh and old be'lakor.
How close to 2k force this leads me to?
How close to 2k force this leads me to? A pretty decent demon backbone army if you ask me...
Demons right now aren't in a good place for mono-factions, except if you want to go hog wild with mono-slaanesh.
As for troops, in 9th I really like nurglings but my "1b" favorite is Horrors due to the shear firepower of a large blob and split opportunities.
'letter bombs with banner+ DS are still good.
20 demonettes with slaanesh hareld is good.
Another good unit that I've had surprising good success in 9th is Tz herald + flamers deepstriking. herald gives flamers +1 STR and casts flickering flames on flamers for +1 wound. Then, there's a CP in shooting phase that gives flamers mortal wounds on unmodified 6s. 9D6 STR5, +1 wound and 1 mortal on natural 6s is nothing to sneeze against. Surprisingly, it's a decent unit to choose for that "While We Stand" secondary.
Karios is decent, but probably better to proxy him for an Exalted LOC (choose the FNP exalted power! Because if you make a FNP, you GAIN wounds at the end of phase for each saved wound) with impossible rob for 3++.
As for Ahriman and the 2 DP, that's a good option for a CSM or (my preference) Thousand Sons detachment. Easy spammed smite, Death Hex and Prescience are really powerful in a majority Demon list. (Demon loci isn't all that great, outside of mono-Slaanesh imo).
Exalted Flamers are needed if you need the lascannon punch.
I'm not a fan of the Chariots though.
New be'lakor seems appealing, but I want to see his entire rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/17 15:19:00
So let's say you're running that Slaanesh Daemons list, you've got your 4 Keepers of Secrets and your Contorted Epitome but what is best to fill out the rest with?
I know the winning list went 3 min squads of Daemonettes and 3 squads of 5 fiends but then you miss out on the 3rd cool Slaanesh character. If you went 6 squads of min Daemonettes, 2 squads of 2 fiends and 1 squad of 1 fiend in order to fit Syll'Esske in, are you gonna miss those 10 fiends that much? You've got 3 more units of obsec and a really awesome extra character but would the fiends dying easier be something that'll come to bite you in the ass?
I'm talking proper competitive lists here because I'm 100% gonna take this meatgrinder of a model in casual games (even if he is as tough as paper).
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
astro_nomicon wrote: If you want Syl’eske I’d probably skip on shelaxi and go with more Daemonettes, fiends, and maybe even some seekers to threaten a first turn charge.
Don't Keepers of Secrets already threaten 1st turn charges? Especially with the Keeper with the guaranteed 1st turn charge.
Unless you reckon the massed fiends is essential in this kind of list to keep stuff locked down, though I'm still not sold on more daemonettes: I'm not a fan of running big Daemon troops units unless I'm taking several (too many points) or I'm deep striking them (not enough CP).
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
My understanding of Chaos Daemons is that they dont really perform that well atm in general, at the very least not khorne. But i was considering starting a Chaos Daemon army.
Am i misunderstanding that its often a good idea to run two patrols, one maybe mixed between nurgle/tzeentch and another is either dedicated fully to khorne or slannesh due to their good Loci?
Also if i were to start a Chaos Daemons army, what would be your tips for me, the new commer? Which units sohuld i focus on getting first? etc. Also is Chaos Daemons allowed to play along side regular chaos space marines in a patrol? what would the loss of doing so be?
So far i have an ork army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/07 20:33:57
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Has the final rules for Be'lakor come out yet? I know we have seen some abilities and stats, but we still don't know all of his rules or his psyker powers correct? Also we still don't know if he is supreme commander yet either right? I am curious as if he can be a supreme commander it would be interesting to use him as the leader of my Tzeentch daemon force as he adds a lot of CC hitting power just based on what we do know.
I was thinking about this and would appreciate some input. Are Daemonic Icons a trap? They cost 15 points (which is 2 daemonettes with a point left over) and 1/6 of the time can return 3.5 models back to the unit (giving back ~17.5 pts). Now how often are you making morale checks for a unit before it is blown off the table?Overall I just don't see them being worth the cost. I think I'd rather have the extra models on the board to start with and go from there.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I was thinking about this and would appreciate some input. Are Daemonic Icons a trap? They cost 15 points (which is 2 daemonettes with a point left over) and 1/6 of the time can return 3.5 models back to the unit (giving back ~17.5 pts). Now how often are you making morale checks for a unit before it is blown off the table?Overall I just don't see them being worth the cost. I think I'd rather have the extra models on the board to start with and go from there.
Comments?
Only if playing Syll'eske daemonette horde (also a remind that you always roll for morale even if only one model dies, therefore giving you good odds for 1 via rerolls)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 16:52:20
I can't imagine too many attacks that would only kill 1 model and with a Ld score of 7 you can only afford to lose 1 model without risking losing more models. If you have a greater daemon or something else that raises the daemonettes' LD it might be worth taking an Icon but you'd have to be able to keep the unit within 6" of the booster at all times and even then...
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I was thinking about this and would appreciate some input. Are Daemonic Icons a trap? They cost 15 points (which is 2 daemonettes with a point left over) and 1/6 of the time can return 3.5 models back to the unit (giving back ~17.5 pts). Now how often are you making morale checks for a unit before it is blown off the table?Overall I just don't see them being worth the cost. I think I'd rather have the extra models on the board to start with and go from there.
Comments?
I agree, I think they are a trap in 9th. The one exception might be Pink Horrors. If you use splitting and ensure a Brimstone Horror stays around, then you can sacrifice it in your psychic phase so that you can roll another morale check. Of course, that's even more points invested (I'm still upset about 5pt Brimstones).
I think your second list will do better - there are more big units to overwhelm the enemies anti-tank/monster. In terms of the KoS, I recommend using whips over the hands. I just don't find the hands come into play often enough, and being able to soften up units with the whips helps. Whips also give you an additional way to deal with enemy fliers.