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This army is primarily for battling vs an Ultramarines gunline.. usually consisting of a standard Land Raider, possibly a Crusader as well, a Vindicator, 2 Las Razorbacks, 2 or 3 tactical squads split into 5s, with a las cannon, melta or flamer, and powerfist, Marneus Calgar at the lead, and possibly Assault terminators with storm shields and thunderhammers.

1500 points Casual

350 Be'lakor
110 Warpsmith

140 5 CSM, CCW, Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Rhino
140 5 CSM, CCW, Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Rhino

110 3 Terminators, 3x Combi-Melta
230 Land Raider

140 2 Obliterators
140 2 Obliterators
140 Predator, Tri Las

Kind of a lean army.. only 21 models in total, that's the only thing I'm really concerned about, but I was told this was a relatively decent list vs gunlines so id like to give it a shot xD

I don't own much more than this (as far as new models go).. some plague marines, berserkers, a defiler, 2 more obliterators, 2 daemon princes, a sorcerer, could possibly swing 10 cultists.. that's about it.

EDIT: Btw, is 1850 points considered the tournament standard these days, in the US? Or is there not really a standard?

Looks like a pretty fun casual list. A couple things to consider. The first is that warpsmiths are not good. Play him a couple of times and I think you will find that he does pretty much nothing. It's a shame to waste a slot (and points) on him when two of the best units in the codex (game?) are the chaos lord and chaos sorcerer. The next thing to consider is investing in some cultists. They're not badasses by any stretch of the imagination but for their points, they are a far superior choice to the mediocre chaos marines. Plague marines, which you mentioned you had, are far superior to CSMs, and can be unlocked as troops I you take a lord with MoN.

As far a the standard tourney points value, they are usually 1850, less commonly 1750, and occasionally branch out to 1500 or 2000. If you are waltzing into a store looking for a game, 1850 is your safest bet.

At 1750pts, drop the warpsmith
at 2000, add another squad of csm for 140 and give the champions from each a melta bomb

I guess I've got a few questions...

1) What's the Warpsmith doing there?

2) What's Belakor going to do? I'm guessing you want to cast Invisibility on the Land Raider, which begs the question...

3) Are you putting the Terminators in the Land Raider? They're geared up like a suicide squad but presumably transported like an assault unit. You might want to throw something in there a little bit more effective in H2H.

4) The Predator seems kind of shoe-horned in there.

5) MoN is too good to pass up on Obliterators. 2W at T4 isn't really so great...at T5 it's a game changa.


7th edition favors speed, and one of CSM's major strongpoints is fast units. T6 Spawn and Bikes, Maulerfiends, even Deep-Striking Helbrutes (a la Mayhem Pack) do a good job of bringing the fight to the opponent.

I'm not saying it's *bad* only that it seems like a bunch of reasonably good units aggregated into a list. I'm not really seeing the synergy. Your opponent runs a gunline, and you're responding by bringing a gunline? CSM gunlines are almost certainly going to disappoint.



Not sure how many Berzerkers you've got, but something you might try is:

HQ 510

Belakor: 350
Proxy Kharn the Betrayer (w/ Sorcerer?): 160

Troops: 456

9 Berzerkers, Power Fist on the Champion: 206

5 CSM, 1 Plasma Gun in a Rhino: 125
5 CSM, 1 Plasma Gun in a Rhino: 125



Heavy Support: 534

Land Raider: 230

2 Nurgle Obliterators: 152
2 Nurgle Obliterators: 152



## Play it like Belakor casts Invisibility on the Land Raider and hides behind it. Rhinos roll along the side of the Land Raider protecting Belakor from shots from the side. Full speed ahead at the enemy. Obliterators will likely be unmolested as your opponent has a whole bunch of hate bearing down on him.

T1, LR goes flat out and the Rhinos move up to objectives and pop smoke.
T2, Belakor casts Invisibility on the Berzerkers and they tag-team assault the crap out of something.
T3, profit?

It's not the best list, but you've got decent objective-grabbing capability. I'd rather see a Biker lord and some Spawn tearassing around but it'll probably do OK. Trying to shoot it out with Vanilla Marines probably won't end well...

My apologies, I forgot to mention that the Warpsmith is likely the only unit in this entire list that is non-negotiable. I simply love the model and concept entirely too much ;P

Plus, and not to sound rude, I've been told by quite a few sources that the Warpsmith, if used correctly, is actually a pretty good pick. Good utility, and a jack of all trades.. bordering on very (assault) shooty as well with a Brand (which I plan to field him with in 1850). Will be learning the hard way if this simply is not the case...



As far as the rest of my army goes.. it was originally intended to break my friend's gunline, and nothing more. But this has already been done apparently, as he's changed his army.

So looks like I'll be rewriting my list, with something (hopefully) a bit more well rounded. Will just repost it, since the concept and list will be fairly different...

Thanks for the responses.