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Just some things that came to mind that address the unreasonable and occasionally delusional ideas people have and to bring some comparison. Sorry Privateer Press, I love you but you´ll have to take some dirt for comparisons sake. This is not directed at any individual per say, but in Finland we have a saying:

"If you throw a brick, the dog who got hit will be the one barking." - if you catch my drift.

Sorry for the tone of the post - but some people really deserve a harsh wake up call instead of a soft lullaby. If you don´t find yourself among these cryouts I´ve listed, great. It´s not directed at you.

I don´t care if you try to dismiss me off as a troll or a white knight, just goes to show that´s the only cards you got. I am not trolling, and I merely see things as they actually are instead of being an apologist. If you see reality and looking at things from another angle as being a white knight, then it´s your view that is skewed and biased, for I fully know how GW functions, and what they have and haven´t done, and how it compares to other manufacturers. My absolute standing with them is that they are doing a lot of things wrong, but they have also made a lot of things right to become the largest wargaming company on the planet. I can understand some things they do, some I cannot. Other manufacturers have done some things better - I believe though GW has acted the same way in their early years. They started small too, but obviously being the biggest has affected the way the act, and not all in a good way. This is what I think, and I personally know my own thoughts. Call me an apologist or a fanboy, insult me all you like, my standing is still what I just said and your words or insults won´t change anything on a factual level, just in your head.


GW publishes new miniatures along with a Codex Release

You cry out that the miniatures are just a money shenanigan, and nothing more. A soulless attempt to make more money. Well, this isn´t the case. That miniature, that you are dismissing as an attempt to fish you out of your money only is designed by an individual or a team of designers who most likely are passionate about the game and the hobby. They have put hours and hours of work and their professional skills into designing said miniatures and breathing them to life - just like with other manufacturers. Just like any other professionals, they can be ambitious and proud of their creative work. And you believe you are in a position to just dismiss someones work as a simple cashgrab, just like that. Quite frankly I don´t know what gives you the right or how you even dare. Ofcourse they also want to make money with the miniatures, that is how wargaming companies do.

It´s wrong of GW to publish new models ( even if it´s just for the sake of publishing something ) but you see it perfectly fine when it´s done by other manufacturers. Privateer Press publishes 3 different versions of the same warcaster, and publishes 13 add-ons with books and new models and you are fine with it. First they publish BIG WAR ENGINES. Then BIG BEASTS AND JACKS. Then DOUBLE EPIC WARCASTERS. Totally not "something because of something" to make more money huh? It´s exactly the same thing, and you are being paradoxical if you can´t admit it, and that´s that.


GW doesn´t publish new miniatures along with a Codex Release

And you are unsatisfied by the lack of new models.


GW publishes a new a Codex

And you cry cashgrab. Meanwhile Privateer Press publishes 13 additional books next to the actual armybooks for two different compatible systems next to the rulebooks and you cry foul. Paradoxical.


You need so many books to play Warhammer 40k!'

Meanwhile Privateer Press publishes 13 additional books next to the actual armybooks for two different compatible systems next to the rulebooks and you cry foul. The only saving grace here is the stat cards, still doesn´t change the amount of books.


GW ´s new codices are "plain."

And at the same time you are whining that the rules are so complex that it causes unbalance. And when they try to fix things by simplifying army options ( maybe even the rules in the future ) you say that the codices are too plain. Paradoxical. Again.


GW should just remake the rules instead of pushing out new product.

With a community like this, what do you think would happen if they did a complete rules overhaul? An outrage. You and I both know it. Even smaller adjustments make people rage - GW simply can´t do a rules overhaul even if they wanted. It would cause whining in amounts never ever beforeseen by mankind and pose a risk so great they simply can´t take it. If there´s people threatening to quit now, it would be tenfold after a completely new set of rules, no matter how good. You know this. Also, just selling rulebooks doesn´t keep them, or any wargaming company afloat. It´s just not possible to stop creating product that brings in money when you try to run a big company.


Well if GW can´t do a complete rules overhaul then they should try to fix the rules in smaller amounts.

They are. 7th edition is them doing that. Even if it doesn´t succeed perfectly doesn´t mean it isn´t being done. Why do you forgive other manufacturers for their rules mistakes but not GW? Do you understand that the engine of 40K is over 10 years older than other miniature games and for previously mentioned reasons they just cannot do an overhaul? 7th edition has brought the game to a better balance than it has been in for years, you know this. People are quitting out of small adjustments already, to argue it wouldn´t be a disaster no matter how good the new rules is being delusional. After 20 years just a clean slate, and everyone would be happy, or even a fraction of the majority? Yeah, no, not with us/you.


GW has evil people working who just want to make money.

It´s their job to make money ( some of them. ) It´s what they do for a living to pay for things in their life or to chase their career ambitions, just like you and me. Some might be proud of their company and do anything to save it, as would employees and managers of any other company they are passionate about. It happens every day around the world. Even if they don´t do things well or perfectly it doesn´t mean they mean you harm. They might be ignorant at times or make foolish decisions- so do other manufacturers. GW is still thrice bigger than their next competitor. Running a larger company well is more difficult than a smaller company. Next to this the people at GW have a better idea of how to run a wargame/miniature company than most of us do on these forums. Fact.

Next to that there are countless people in the company who have a passion about the game, and are sincerely trying their best to improve the game, it´s mechanics and design new and exciting things for the players. If you say this isn´t the case you are detached from reality. How do you even dare and what gives you the right to call everything they do a cashgrab without no other purpose than money? I sincerely believe currently GW is trying.

PS.

Maybe these things, that I´ve actually read on these very forums among others, goes to show how any company at any given time cannot please everyone, for there is always someone else who isn´t happy about some other thing. A part of the community is being totally unreasonable. What you can do is try to see through your blind hatred goggles, that give us the following ridicilous end result when combined, and maybe figure out why you are being biased and giving leeway to every other company except the one:

"GW consists of evil moneyhungry people who don´t want to better the game or it´s mechanics, and put out new product solely for the purpose of making money, while creating plain and boring codices, while they should be balancing the game by reducing the amount of complex rules that bring unbalance, while they should be making a rules overhaul that would cause yet another doom-cycle as no one would be satisfied anyway."


In essence, do you understand that you/we will never be satisfied no matter what?

I'm not going to go through each point, but here's a brief version.
Umm....you don't actually need the army books to play Warmachine. They're completely optional. The cards that come with the models have all the rules for them.
So, right there, PP is way cheaper and thus there's nothing to forgive. GW's codexes are necessary and really friggin' expensive for what they are.
The new codices are complex without depth and lack flavor and imagination.
GW has had 7 tries to get the rules right and each time it's more of a sidewards move. Their changes are random and arbitrary and seem more about selling models than good gameplay.
You're misunderstanding most of the criticisms so its hard to take your arguments seriously.
And to say that you're "right and this is how it is" doesn't help produce a civil tone for the conversation.

Winner of a thread here. This will only end in flames or locked for being inflammatory

PS: forgot my gif foolishness:

 zedmeister wrote:
Winner of a thread here. This will only end in flames or locked for being inflammatory

Yeah, this thread practically says "I wanna start a flame war and not a proper conversation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Seriously?

You're telling us how it is?

Let me tell YOU how it is.

You're not special, every couple of weeks there's another low count poster thinks to come in, either here or elsewhere and preach to everyone how they're wrong, every thing they think is wrong and here's the super-special-secret reason why.

We've heard it all before, your arguments are poor and I've neither the time nor the energy to educate you as to the reasons why, just scroll back a couple of pages and find the last thread that was a carbon copy of this one.

This will be good...

Nah, if any one of a number of posters I know who could utterly demolish this insipid bucket of room temperature barf of an argument doesn't see it for what it is and move on without comment, or only briefly commenting, I'll be surprised.

Despite his protestations, OP obviously knows absolutely nothing about Warmachine, or probably any game that isn't Games Workshop.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Quite frankly I don´t know what gives you the right or how you even dare.

By being a consumer. Its not a damn charity

The company does have an implied attitude of malice towards. it comes oozing out of there investor reports which i always find entertaining.

No one in there right minds would be implying that the sculptors the artists or the writers would be doing there jobs with the intent of cashgrabbling.

But its the direction of the company and how they work there employees and sell there products to those who deserve it.

Oh, please save us from ourselves, Mr. RunicFIN.

You're the hero Dakka needs.

It's probably best to respond to points people have actually posted rather than hypothetical ones.