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French feminists are petitioning for the removal of the 25-foot sculpture of the famous Times Square VJ Day kiss dubbed “Unconditional Surrender” from outside the Caen Memorial Museum in Normandy. According to them, it has to be torn down as it portrays “a sexual attack”.
Earlier reports have stated that the said statue based on an iconic WWII image is on a one-year loan to the Caen Memorial Museum for the 70th-year anniversary of the end of the Second World War. The said museum is located in Normandy, the site of the famous D-Day Landings.
The sculpture Unconditional Surrender, however, is under fire as French feminists have criticized it, saying that the said statue shows and glorifies an assault against a woman. The French feminist group Osez Le Feminisme complains that Unconditional Surrender, which shows a sailor and a nurse kissing with one of the sailor’s arm around her waist and the other supporting her neck, embodies a ‘sexual attack’ against the woman since the kiss was ‘forced’ upon her by the serviceman.
They further pointed out that even the photographer who took the picture from where the sculpture was based from, Alfred Eisenstaedt, said that the said sailor in the picture and the statue had grabbed and attempted to kiss all the women around him before he took the shot.
A spokesperson for the feminist group issued a very strong statement saying that they cannot accept how the Caen Memorial Museum has accepted and erected the sculpture Unconditional Surrender which epitomizes sexual assault as a figure for peace. The spokesperson further added that the sailor could have just hugged, laughed or asked the women around if he could kiss them. Instead, he chose to grab them and with firm hands, kissed them. That act was an assault.
Furthermore, Osez Le Feminisme has started a petition calling for the removal of the said sculpture from the memorial museum. As to date, the plea has attracted over 700 signatures.
Nevertheless, the director of the Caen Memorial Museum, Stephanie Grimaldi, said that the woman in the photo where Unconditional Surrender was based upon had always maintained that she was happy with the kiss and never once did feel assaulted by it.
In contrast, the feminist group argued that Greta Zimmer Friedman from Austria, the woman officially identified as the nurse in the iconic photo, had stated in her interview way back in 2012 that she was unable to escape from the kiss. But despite that recollection, Friedman did not issue any complaints about it.
The iconic black-and-white photo was taken on VJ Day [Victory over Japan Day] in August 14, 1945 by LIFE photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt. It was, then, published in the LIFE magazine where it gained fame, a symbol of America’s joy that the Second World War had finally come to an end.
tl;dr: Some French women are desperately looking for attention and claim that the Unconditional Surrender statue portrays and glorifies a "sexual assault" and needs to be taken down.
Not going to say much about this, I'll let someone else speak for myself:
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
- Einstein
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/14 13:36:18
Don't you mean "tl;dr: Famous picture has different backstory to that expected by most people, and people are objecting to it based on the fact that it is indeed a sexual assault?"
I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
IIRC, we still don't know who the sailor, or the nurse in the photograph are... As such how could anyone have asked her how she felt?? Perhaps she had seen the same things as the photographer (of a sailor, just home from hell, wanting a kiss), and decided to place herself where she would be seen/grabbed by the sailor (as in, "I want to kiss that sailor, but I don't want to be TOO forward about it" NOT the typical dakka "Blame the Victim!!").
Hang on.... Nevertheless, the director of the Caen Memorial Museum, Stephanie Grimaldi, said that the woman in the photo where Unconditional Surrender was based upon had always maintained that she was happy with the kiss and never once did feel assaulted by it.
But....In contrast, the feminist group argued that Greta Zimmer Friedman from Austria, the woman officially identified as the nurse in the iconic photo, had stated in her interview way back in 2012 that she was unable to escape from the kiss. But despite that recollection, Friedman did not issue any complaints about it.
Yeah, the critics aren't wrong, really. Irrespective of the actual event, however, I'd argue that contemporary takeaway isn't what they they are assigning to it; much as how I imagine nearly no Americans see the "Hollywood sign" and think of the Hollywoodland real estate development.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/10 14:40:11
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
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I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
IIRC, we still don't know who the sailor, or the nurse in the photograph are... As such how could anyone have asked her how she felt?? Perhaps she had seen the same things as the photographer (of a sailor, just home from hell, wanting a kiss), and decided to place herself where she would be seen/grabbed by the sailor (as in, "I want to kiss that sailor, but I don't want to be TOO forward about it" NOT the typical dakka "Blame the Victim!!").
In the article there are two accounts; one from a director of a museum of some sort that the woman involved was fine with it, and the feminist group's account giving the name of the woman in the photo, and stating that she had said that she couldn't escape in an interview.
Goliath wrote: Don't you mean "tl;dr: Famous picture has different backstory to that expected by most people, and people are objecting to it based on the fact that it is indeed a sexual assault?"
I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
Apparently, she was fine with it.
Edith Shain wrote to Eisenstaedt in the late 1970s claiming to be the woman in the picture.[6] In August 1945, Shain was working at Doctor's Hospital in New York City as a nurse when she and a friend heard on the radio that World War II had ended. They went to Times Square where all the celebrating was and as soon as she arrived on the street from the subway, the sailor grabbed her in an embrace and kissed her. She related that at the time she thought she might as well let him kiss her since he fought for her in the war. Shain did not claim that she was the woman in the white dress until many years later when she wrote to Eisenstaedt. He notified the magazine that he had received her letter claiming to be the subject.
Still probably inappropriate though.
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I thought we had multiple people claiming that's "them" in the picture and that no one was 100% identified...
As to being inappropriate? Sure... but, I'd understand at the same time.... the julibation/party afterwards must of been epic.
(with the "baby boom" following the war. )
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Now I'm really confused because in the linked article it says that the nurse in question was called Greta Zimmer Friedman, not Edith Shain....
It's...strange. From what I understand, it started off with "V-J Day in Times Square" by Alfred Eisenstaedt.
It was then reenacted by Victor Jorgensen. That version by Victor was the one that was made into a statue.
Now, it could be that Friedman was in Jorgensen's version, but there is the issue that no one really knows who the kissers were; the photographer didn't take names.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/10 15:00:29
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Now I'm really confused because in the linked article it says that the nurse in question was called Greta Zimmer Friedman, not Edith Shain....
No one knows for sure who the nurse is. (from the original picture.) There have been a few people who said they were over the years.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/10 15:04:38
I agree with this entirely. It's a Bad Thing. The most appalling thing is that the feminists are being short sighted in targeting just this.
In the same vein, I push for not stopping here. We should also purge the following for portraying sexual assault:
Ayn Rand books, or at least the Fountainhead
Medieval history accounts
Historical Christian records and literature
Historical Islamic records and literature
Historical Judaic records and literature
Vampires
Accounts of world war II
Straw Dogs
Romance Novels
That's a good start for today.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/10 15:13:20
daedalus wrote: Ayn Rand books, or at least the Fountainhead
Well, yeah, but sexual assault is the LEAST of the reasons that we should purge Ayn Rand books.
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Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
whembly wrote: Have you guys honestly read that book? Or, just read the cliffnotes and other punditry's analysis?
I read it willingly back in college. Really gave me a different outlook on things. The thing that keeps me a dirty liberal is my complete unwillingness to extend the message of the book to people beyond me.
Or as Randal Munroe said, much more succinctly: "I had a hard time with Ayn Rand because I found myself enthusiastically agreeing with the first 90% of every sentence, but getting lost at 'therefore, be a huge donkey-cave to everyone.'"
whembly wrote: Have you guys honestly read that book? Or, just read the cliffnotes and other punditry's analysis?
I read it willingly back in college. Really gave me a different outlook on things. The thing that keeps me a dirty liberal is my complete unwillingness to extend the message of the book to people beyond me.
Or as Randal Munroe said, much more succinctly: "I had a hard time with Ayn Rand because I found myself enthusiastically agreeing with the first 90% of every sentence, but getting lost at 'therefore, be a huge donkey-cave to everyone.'"
I read it too... and didn't like it.
It wasn't the message that bothered me. But, baned worthy? Nah.
Although, that last 10%... be a dick if you want, but don't complain for suffering the consequences.
I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
This issue portrays a major problem with attention seekers: they claim feminism but in fact only strife to shove their opinion and personal view down other people's throats. Let alone the historical significance of the entire scene, the "victim" never even claimed that she was not okay with it. Somehow, though, those "people" claim that she did. They literally twist her own words for their "cause".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/10 15:58:24
I mean, it's all well and good saying "Those durn feminists" but when the person that took the photo, and the woman being kissed both state that he forced her to kiss him (she was unable to escape) then it's pretty cut and dry that it's not exactly a good thing.
This issue portrays a major problem with attention seekers: they claim feminism but in fact only strife to shove their opinion and personal view down other people's throats. Let alone the historical significance of the entire scene, the "victim" never even claimed that she was not okay with it. Somehow, though, those "people" claim that she did. They literally twist her own words for their "cause".
A) Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they're not people, please stop putting it in inverted commas.
B) They're not claiming that she had an issue with it. They're saying that even if she didn't have an issue with it, it's still a sexual assault. There is a difference
B) They're not claiming that she had an issue with it. They're saying that even if she didn't have an issue with it, it's still a sexual assault. There is a difference
She is ok with it...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/10 16:14:50
B) They're not claiming that she had an issue with it. They're saying that even if she didn't have an issue with it, it's still a sexual assault. There is a difference
She was ok with it...
Well, she didn't issue any complaints about it. That doesn't necessarily mean she was okay with it.
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