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I have got the Eldar Codex here and after some victorious games, there are units I am very proud off (but I have to accept it is the Grey Knights doing most of the work). However, there are units in the Codex I don't see any reaon why I would bring into my army. And here is the list of them, 5 Eldar units I personally don't like (HQ not included) :

5 - Dark Reapers. They are not bad, but apart from against the Dark Eldar, maybe some Flying Monstrous Creature lists, they are not very useful. 30 points, that's twice the amount of Lootas, and 2 Lootas are more likely to put out better firepower. 3+ might be good, but they are still T3 and in most cases will be deployed in cover. With the Dark Eldar allies, you can put Dark Reapers into Venom and Riaders, but even this is not helping a lot. Troll moment comes when the Helldrake put that nasty Baleflamer on them.

4 - Guardians. For 9 points/model, they are worse than Kabalite Warriors who cost only 8 points/model and Fire Warriors which also cost 9 points/model. They are better than both in assaulting, but I have my Grey Knights for that. 12" shots will probably not going to do a whole lot, even with Bladestorm. Weapons platforms are not that great, and I think they are overpriced. The Farseer with Guide/Doom can help them kill some Tyranids MC, but that's about it.

3 - Hemlock Wraith Fighter. Terrify got a huge nerf in that it does not cancel out Fearless. Re-rolling Leadership can be useless because there are many ways to make troops Ferless like Tyranid synapse, or re-rolling failed attempts like AM Commissars, and some units are just too brave (Necron will still have LD9 with Terrify). 2 D-cannon shots may sound good on paper, but you are likely to to have to jink when the enemy shoot at it because of the AV10 all around. Psychic Shriek is the only thing awesome about this guy. Other than that, mehhhh.

2 - Howling Banshee. Eldar don't have any Assault Vehicle, so these ladies are going to get shot to pieces while trying to advance. With the Dark Eldar Venoms and Raiders, another threat arises from flamers and vehicle exploding. Also, they are only S3, so don't expect to kill a lot, unless you are fighting other Eldar. Banshee Mask reduces Initiative by 5, but they will strike first against most opponents anyway. If I charge Banshees and the Dreadknight with Force into a Hive Tyrant, the Dreadknight will kill the big bug before it hits back. But what are the chances of me pulling out that?

1 - Storm Guardians. You exchange 1 range shot at S4 AP5 Bladestorm and 6" range for 1 more attack at S3 AP-. Flamers and Melta are good, but not enough to save this unit. Apart from the Autarch, Avatar and Striking Scorpions, Eldar should not fight in close combat. Ignore Storm Guardians altogether, unless you can somehow convince your opponent to field his long-forgotten Mutilators.

Do you agree with my list? Which unit in your codex do you think is the worst?

Replace Dark Reapers with Shining Spears and that's my view.

Replace Guardians with Rangers, and Reapers with Spears.

Guardians can hold a backfield objective decently, while putting potshot brightlance shots into downfield LandRaiders or whatever. And if some big bad high-T model comes close, they can at least do a wound or two.

Reapers eat bikes. And Space Marines. Give them the heavier missiles, and they eat anything AV12 and under, while ignoring Jink. They aren't the high-volume machines that Lootas are, but they do take out decently-armored infantry with ease.

Bharring wrote:
Replace Guardians with Rangers, and Reapers with Spears.

Guardians can hold a backfield objective decently, while putting potshot brightlance shots into downfield LandRaiders or whatever. And if some big bad high-T model comes close, they can at least do a wound or two.

Reapers eat bikes. And Space Marines. Give them the heavier missiles, and they eat anything AV12 and under, while ignoring Jink. They aren't the high-volume machines that Lootas are, but they do take out decently-armored infantry with ease.

I liked the reapers back in the day, but they're really not worth it in an untailored list. They ignore Jink, not cover, so bikers in ruins for the one turn it takes to close are still safe. Star shot brings them up to a 1W T3 model for 38 points as I recall, and only the exarch can buy flak missles so they suck even at AA vs spiders which are more versatile. Plus rare is the biker squad without a 2+ or 3++SS in front.

Any phoenix lord aside, the losers are banshees, storm guardians, both flyers Av10 all around means 1 dead from quad cannon via interceptor, another dead from anything else looking at it funny (lasguns aside) assuming it came in the same turn, otherwise see quad cannon. The last place toss up is probably a tie between falcon, reapers, shining spears (which I WANT to like, but couldn't for the points), etc. Oh wait no, it's the harlie's up with the storm guardians.

Of those, only the top 3 I'd consider truly bad. Guardians fit the relatively cheap scoring unit role and Dark Reapers fill their own niche, although perhaps not quite as well as some other units in the 'Dex.

So here is the top 5 worst Eldar units. Keep in mind I must really try for the bottom of this list.
1. Banshees. What needs to be said here?
2. Storm Guardians. No weapons platform. No purpose.
3. Hemlock. If it jinks it can't shoot. If it doesn't jink its dead. Only reason it isn't number 1 if because of potential psychic abilities.
4. Shining spears. Just very niche. Not a terrible unit but just only has one use. Outflank and pray.
5. Striking Scorpions It's not bad by any means. It's just they never get there. Sadly also my favorite unit.
Honorable mention.
WraithSwords. Die from AP3, slow and no grenades.
WraithLords. Blame the wraithknight for being better point wise.
Falcon. Once again a point thing. Not terrible but Prisms and Serpents are better.

So much I would reconsider in this post,

Dark Reapers: Name one unit that cock blocks 90% of space marine lists as easily as these guys. Look back this year at the latest top 10s. Most SM were running biker grav spam. You can eat a unit of bikes a turn starting turn 1. Saying that helldrakes counter them is ignoring the fact that helldrakes counter every unit in the entire codex. Their biggest fault is that they are fighting every other heavy support in this book and wave serpents do a similar job. The loss of tau also hurt them since their IC were pretty awesome.

Guardians: Are amazing for their points? For 25 more points you can get 5 more scoring bodies compared to dire avengers. There basic guns can do everything except hurt AV. I wouldn't take a weapon platform either unless I was running 20 to sit on a back objective. Lets be honest 99% of the time they are doing the same thing as dire avengers though, sitting in their transport and never on the board. Probably why no one ever runs them.

Hemlock: is kinda bad, probably at the bottom of the codex for usefulness.

Banshees: same deal its been talked to death, no assault transport, and even if they had it they would still be bad.

Storm Guardians: This is my biggest complaint. Most lists are going to run the normal 5 dire avengers in a wave serpent. For 35 more points I get 5 more bodies, same number of shuriken fire, and/or 2 flamers. For another 10 I get melta. This adds so much more utility to my list.

Others people mentioned:

Rangers: down at the bottom, 7ed ruined sniper rifles.

Shining spears: solid unit when you think of the damage they can pull off and their durability. 25 ppm is kinda high though for a unit with 1 attack each.

Falcons: should of been a dedicated transport, can't compare to wave serpents.

Crimson Hunter: great flyer if kinda high on points, not nearly as fragile as it looks.

Harlies: same problem as banshees. No grenades or transport.

So if I had made a list, it would probably go:

falcons, hemlock, elite section minus fire dragons, rangers.

People saying that Guardian Defenders are bad probably never played/faced a WS spam that instead of DAs has Guardians. Funny how in a single turn you can disembark 40 of them and unload 80 shots.

Also because Wave Serpent/Wraith Knight is super good doesn't mean that Falcon is terribad.
I'd say that Prisms are worse than Falcons. Jinking nulifies most of their shooting. Also we don't need lances that much and IMO Night Spinner is a better pie-plate-making machine.

It's funny when people complain about guardians: most armies would love for a troop with battle focus, mobile heavy weapons, and rendering guns...

As for my list (worst to ok)

Banshees
Hemlock Fighter
Falcon: When the last time you seen one?
Wraithblades: The guns are way too awesome to give up.
Wraithlords: Just because a Knight is better is so many ways.

Rangers,
Banshees,
Harlequins,
Storm guardians.

Can't think of a 5th as every single other unit would be in the top 1/4 in both my BA and CSM armies selections (not crons though).

Storm guardians aren't that bad, a lot worse now than they were before.

I'd have Harlequins on the list. Too many points (old codex pts). No delivery system.

2. How are they going to get shot to pieces when they have Jain Zar leading them?

With an average movement range of 13" per turn, these ladies will reach cc by turn 2, only giving the opponent 1 turn of shooting, where Jain Zar will tank most of the hits thanks to 2+ and EW, and pass on the low AP hits to her sisters.

Banshees - there is nothing good about them any more :( Can't get therer except in a vehicle - only vehicle option is a Cheese Serpent wihich is not an Assault Vehicle, S3 , can't even use the models with power axes as power axes.

Rangers seem a bit weak for their points givien sniper rifles

I do think the Crimson Hunter is very good - Vector Dancing is brilliant - another thing they screwed up i the DE codex by not giving their fighter it.

Well, I run Guardians, a Falcon, Rangers and even Vypers in 1000pt lists. Played right, they all have their niche. The Rangers get upgraded to Pathfinders (expensive and only works on long-table deployment) with the Falcon sitting right next to them to hit meatier targets or mop up what the improved Rangers leave behind when they pop the plasma guns. Guardians are in Wave Serpents and when they come out, it's almost a full squad killed with psyker support and Psychic Shriek.

So Storm Guardians, Banshees, Phoenix Lords, Wraithblades and Wraithlords are on my list as things to never get.

Even Scorpions are going to get some love as I flesh out my Dark Eldar allies with assault transports.

I love he idea of the falcon but you're right it just can't compete with the wave serpent.

Surprised to see the hate for guardians I often run two squads of ten both with shuri cannons to great effect. Blade storm really should not be underestimated. I've seen these guys ruin even big squads of terminators just through weight of fire and the occasional ap2.

Units that suck in the Eldar codex:

All the Phoenix Lords (some have extremely narrow niche builds)

Yriel.

What's-his-name with the sniper rifle.

Avatar.

Banshees.

Harlequins.

Striking Scorpions.

Rangers.

Hemlock.

Falcon.

The reason I put Guardians in there is because of my disdain for the way GW treat units with 5+. I mean it when saying 4+ is twice as durable as 5+ because almost all basic weapons are AP5, including Gauss, Pulse, Bolter, Shuriken and Splinter. Guardians need 10 men at least, so a lot of resource is going to be needlessly wasted before you get the Heavy Weapon Platform. Also, why are you putting your Eldar so close to the foe? 12" range means you will get shot to pieces by those pesky Fire Warriors either before or after you have the chance to shoot at them.

I will replace Dark Reapers with Shining Spears. Guardian Jetbikes are better. Shining Spears are so insignificant in this Codex I completely forgot they even existed. Some guy said Helldrake counters every army. NO! If a Helldrake flames my Warp Spider, that is 19 points/model, even better for me it it flames the Rangers instead. The rest will either have 2+ (Grey Knight allies) or in Wave Serpents.

Harlequin would get number 6 spot. I don't see a reason to run around with T3 units that cost so much.

I find Falcon OK. They are inferior to Wave Serpent, but then again, the Wave Serpent is considered OP.

In small games, Wraithlord is better than Wraithknight. If the Wraithknight is stuck in close combat with 20 Fearless Hormagants, he is as good as done for. Wraithblades are average. There are things in the Codex I find much worse.

I kinda like the Rangers. Only 60 points, cheap. Of course, Jetbikes can be cheaper but I don't want to do the math. I run with Rangers and they are effective in babysitting objectives with 3+ cover saves in ruins.

Banshees now have access to assault vehicles (raiders/venoms), but the lack of grenades force you to position the vehicle to avoid terrain in a charge. Still, why melee someone when Eldar is so good at shooting?

I relly like dark reapers. expensive as feth, but they deliver

Dark Reapers got way more awesome with 7th. The amount of Jink out there and especially SM bike armies make them amazing again.
I love playing white scars when I have Reapers. Ignore Jink and AP3. 2 S5 shots per Reaper. That's money. Guide them and watch hilarity ensue. They love to scout up just means they are always in range. They seem to rarely put them in regular cover due to their 3+ jink (skilled rider).
I forgot about Harlequins. They in my mind are as bad as banshees. No battle focus. Wonky psychic power. They are lame. No offense to my Harlie lovers out there.
I don't play guardians but they are super good. With 2 platforms and a warlock/farseer support. Good luck getting them off an objective without wasting considerable resources.
I olay Dire Avengers instead always 10 man squads with shimmershield. I like their objective taking abilities better. That's me.
Back to bad.
Rangers are always underwhelming to me. They have few shots and die easy. Heavy sniper really limits how they can move and shot too. Snap shots on 1 shot models. I'll pass.
Not all the Phoenix Lords totally blow but they are niche.
Asurmen.... Ehhhhh lame
Karandras.... Actually pretty cool but can only be played a few way. DE book may make him alot better actually.
Baharoth... Ehhh pretty lame
Jain Zar... If she could just make it there. Maybe.... DE to the rescue.
Maugan Ra... I think he is money actually. I use him alot.
Fuegan.... I've actually never used him.

The other 2 named characters are junk. Eldrad isnt awful though.

The Hemlock, Rangers, Storm Guardians and Banshees are the only truly underwhelming units in the codex. Even Guardians can be effective (they have wicked short ranged firepower for their cost, and an effective transport).

Banshees paired with DE transport might see a resurgence. I expect the Hemlock and Rangers will stay on the shelves until next edition at the earliest.

 Sir Arun wrote:
2. How are they going to get shot to pieces when they have Jain Zar leading them?

With an average movement range of 13" per turn, these ladies will reach cc by turn 2, only giving the opponent 1 turn of shooting, where Jain Zar will tank most of the hits thanks to 2+ and EW, and pass on the low AP hits to her sisters.

Instead of ten banshee's and Jain Zar, you could have 9 shadow weaver cannons shooting S6 blasts from T1. Or a couple fire prisms, or some wraithguard/scythes, or 20+ guardians with a pair of bright lances and an Aegis line. Assuming you fight SM, for the 300 odd points that takes, you'd be up against a ten man sternguard squad in a pod, with a death wind missle launcher and a couple of combi weapons.

Banshees suck hard against anything of equalish points other than MEQ in the open, and they'll lose all effectiveness against anything else even if they manage to survive that combat. 10 shots at BS4, 24", 20 at BS4 12" and probably another 16-18 at BS1 Overwatch. If Banshees had hit and run and furious charge and assault grenades, then they might see time on the table for the points, otherwise you'll see another ten guardians and brightlance, with the other 50 points or so filtering elsewhere.

Guardians are a good troops unit - not storm guardians, though they can be a fun for kicks melta suicide unit, but that requires a wave serpent amnd fielding serpents leads to hate, which leads to "warmachine is balanced" comments around here. :p

 lobbywatson wrote:

Dark Reapers got way more awesome with 7th. The amount of Jink out there and especially SM bike armies make them amazing again.
I love playing white scars when I have Reapers. Ignore Jink and AP3. 2 S5 shots per Reaper. That's money. Guide them and watch hilarity ensue. They love to scout up just means they are always in range. They seem to rarely put them in regular cover due to their 3+ jink (skilled rider).

White Scars in particular ignore dangerous terrain tests so they should be cruising from woods to woods for an improved 4+ cover with no need to jink. I ran Eldar in 5th ed codex in 6th ed games the first few games. Similarly, for non bikers AP3 is meaningless when there is 3+ cover from going to ground in woods when they've already moved into bolter range and they'll still get a 5+ if they want to lose a few meatshields to get the plasma/etc closer. You do get to keep them out of the vast open spaces on the board, but you generally shouldn't have much of that anyway. Plus, drop pods. I'll crash a pod with an ironclad right into your ruin, what do I care if it take another hull point off the pod. The iron clad disembarks safely and tends to have double flamers to handle my anti horde duty, but 38 point dark reapers are just as tasty if they're a threat. Plus you burn a HS slot for a small unit or are exposing a 380 point ten man(+any exarch points) unit that will get stuck in combat forever... That's like tying up 2 devastator squads... For the points I'd rather take 30 guardians with bright lances for AV and weight of fire for infantry, keeping my HS slots open when I played Eldar.

 lobbywatson wrote:

Karandras.... Actually pretty cool but can only be played a few way. DE book may make him alot better actually.

But for the points, you can take 5 wraithscythes. Or something that is actually competitive, by maxing out the FA/HS slots. Just kidding, the HS is always full, with 3 units of a single shadow weaver if nothing else for 90 points.

 lobbywatson wrote:

Jain Zar... If she could just make it there. Maybe.... DE to the rescue.

Nope, the scary raider gets exploded first, then she walks.

 lobbywatson wrote:

Maugan Ra... I think he is money actually. I use him alot.

Less effective than just taking 5 reapers with starshot or more without.

 lobbywatson wrote:

The other 2 named characters are junk. Eldrad isnt awful though.

Eldrad was a favorite of mine in the 5th ed dex and I still ran him in 6th before moving the SM. 7th ed psychic rules are awful by comparison. You went from a 90+% chance to get 3-4 powers off via leadership to a 70% chance to get 3. Warlocks escorting guardians units went away the same instant. Unless of course you take other psykers for the extra WC but then you are burning points for warp charge which leads to a death star mentality of 15 Illyanden spirit seer councils. If I wanted a broken magic phase I'd have stayed in WHFB. blech.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

Banshees paired with DE transport might see a resurgence. I expect the Hemlock and Rangers will stay on the shelves until next edition at the earliest.

I thought about that too, but Banshee's are S3, hit marines on a 4, wound them on a 5. You'll only take overwatch when you charge, but that's still going to be 20 shots, 3+ hits, and a wound or two. Still no assault grenades so marines will have stuck to cover (or still be safe in a rhino) and swing first, getting 4 hits and killing another banshee or two. So you get 6-7 guys swinging 18-21 times total, for 10 hits, 3ish wounds. Assuming no PW/fist/flamer in the squad. Your 160 point elite CC unit has manage to tie a special weaponless vanilla 140 point marine squad. in close combat. But you spent 20 more points, plus the ally slot and cost of a raider which presumably leaves the DE squad walking.

Give banshees grenade/effects, FC... something... anything, but they'll lose to essentially any other similarly costed unit in the game that people actually take in a 1:1 match for the points. It's like a tooled up killy dwarf lord. It too slow to catch a monster or my killy lord so it gets fed chaff. Great Kind Longbeard and his bodyguard take up 600 points and kill 200 points of chaff all game. If that.

Anything afraid of banshees would just pop the raider T1 anyway. It's AV10 and even a bolter/TFC will take it down, much less the scary stuff.