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I've been having some trouble recently in Kill Team.
My opponent brings a team of Thousand Sons and their AP3 weapons are causing major buttache as it pretty much means I get no armour saves.
Any ideas on the best way to neutalize him ?

I have the following armies at my disposal: Tau, Orks, Dark Eldar, Sisters Of Battle, Chaos Daemons, Grey Knights. (could possibly steal some Space Wolves, Chaos Marines and Necrons in a pinch)

The only real answer I have is to stick some sisters in an immolator, but even that has survivability issues.

Thoughts?

That's actually one of the very few cases where 1000 sons are somewhat decent. Killing 3+ expensive infantry without cover.

I suggest mandrakes.

Edit: Oh god, I actually said those words, didn't I. Yes, I did. Fething codex updates...

That may very well be off-topic, but what Kill team rules you use? Official, HotR, anything else?

 Barrogh wrote:
That may very well be off-topic, but what Kill team rules you use? Official, HotR, anything else?

Latest official ones off of BlackLibrary/iTunes

Although they perform quite poorly in real games for their cost... Tau stealth suits have worked well for me in kill team. Their 2+ cover save will help... just make sure to kill their ignore cover specialist first!

Corollax wrote:
I suggest mandrakes.

Edit: Oh god, I actually said those words, didn't I. Yes, I did. Fething codex updates...

Stealth and Shrouded will give some survivability, but getting 18" range to fire an AP4 weapon is still going to end in tears for me :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ers wrote:
Although they perform quite poorly in real games for their cost... Tau stealth suits have worked well for me in kill team. Their 2+ cover save will help... just make sure to kill their ignore cover specialist first!

Question, Stealth and Shrouded add to a cover save, if there is no cover save would you still get a 4+ or would you get nothing because there is nothing to improve upon ?

You still get a 4+, even in open terrain. Which is why I suggested mandrakes.

Corollax wrote:
You still get a 4+, even in open terrain. Which is why I suggested mandrakes.

OK that's good to hear. I do have a soft spot for DE, but I'm thinking that 6 Stealth suits with 2x fusion gets me 16 AP5 shots and 2 AP1 shots per turn with the same 4+ Cover save as mandrakes.
I'm not 100% on the mathammer, but I think 16 shots at BS2 are better than 5 shots at BS4 ?

Network Markerlights are in the support systems list in the dex, but not in the list with points costs ? Can stealth units take them as a support system ?

Stealth suits cannot take networked marker lights. They are bs3 and do get their cover save standing in the open... But you should be in cover at all times. It's also nice to deploy with everyone infiltrating. You get first turn and counter deploy to get your fusions where you need them after your opponent deploys.

ers wrote:
Stealth suits cannot take networked marker lights. They are bs3 and do get their cover save standing in the open... But you should be in cover at all times. It's also nice to deploy with everyone infiltrating. You get first turn and counter deploy to get your fusions where you need them after your opponent deploys.

Doh my bad, I think I read WS by mistake

So Tau Stealth suits are looking promising. Just need to keep them in cover and out of reach of rapid fire.

Insane amounts of guardsman. They don't care about AP3 as they have 5+ only, each 1000son can only kill a single one per turn, and while S3 AP- is nothing, if you throw enough nothing at any problem it will start to dissolve.

200 points = 20 shoota boys + 10 skugga boys. That's 30 orks enjoy :-)

 darkflame182 wrote:
200 points = 20 shoota boys + 10 skugga boys. That's 30 orks enjoy :-)

30 boys = 6 rounds to kill, most likely to only do damage in CC tho, even if all 30 shoot prolly kill 1 marine, and that chance goes down each turn, so perhaps make em all sluggas, add 3 more and run to the kill....
Even at turn 3 I guess that's still more than a 3 to 1 CC ratio.

Could work.

I can see 2 possible games I'll be playing later

Or infiltrate 28 sniper kroot into cover. Bs3 means 14 will hit and 2 will rend. The other 5 wounds will cause a couple more unsaved. And it's a lot of bodies. Turn 2 you can rapid fire while in range which will produce more wounds than the sniper rounds. Might be more effective than boyz.

Take a Rhino or Razorback

Watch all those bolter shots plink off the front.

or Fight fire with MASS BODIES. take as many bodies of something like scouts or kroot and watch as they cannot remove your army fast enough.

Reavers. Reavers all the way. T4 (possibly 5) with a 3+ Jink Sv and FNP is about as survivable as you are going to get in kill team, not to mention they are fast, can shoot and assault, get Rending HOW hits and aren't half bad in combat either! Did i mention they are cheap at 16pts a pop, a unit of 9 with 3 Caltrops and a Champ costs 199pts (kill team is usally 200pts, right?).

If a Caltrop guy charges a model, remove it. D6 Str 6 Rending HOW in addition to his own hits.

3+ Jink Saves + Speed + Amazing power on the charge = won games.

...okay, yeah, I take back my suggestion. Reavers, all the way.

Sisters are better than Marines 'cause of the Shield of Faith, and really, bolters are your best bet against Thousand Sons 'cause heavy weapons just aren't effective.

Against Thousand Sons in kill team... yeah, I would just take a bolter horde, 'specially since Preferred Enemy will help more than the other AoFs.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Reavers. Reavers all the way. T4 (possibly 5) with a 3+ Jink Sv and FNP is about as survivable as you are going to get in kill team, not to mention they are fast, can shoot and assault, get Rending HOW hits and aren't half bad in combat either! Did i mention they are cheap at 16pts a pop, a unit of 9 with 3 Caltrops and a Champ costs 199pts (kill team is usally 200pts, right?).

If a Caltrop guy charges a model, remove it. D6 Str 6 Rending HOW in addition to his own hits.

3+ Jink Saves + Speed + Amazing power on the charge = won games.

I considered Reavers, but they're kinda useless if the enemy are not at ground level in buildings, which in kill team tends to happen more than 40k. Also 3+ Jink means 6's to hit next turn, so survivability comes at the cost of worse shooting than an ork mob.

I wonder if I could get 2 venoms with dual SC to put out 24 poison shots per turn into 200pts (tho that is only 2 dead per turn, with first turn it may just work)..... *wanders off to gawp through the new dex*
(looks like 2x5 Kabalites in venoms, 1 venom has 1 SC the other has 2 SC) that's 10 shots from the troops 18 shots from the SC and 1 from the TLSR. 29 Poisoned shots per turn (19 hit, 9 wound, 3 dead in turn one))

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Sisters are better than Marines 'cause of the Shield of Faith, and really, bolters are your best bet against Thousand Sons 'cause heavy weapons just aren't effective.

Against Thousand Sons in kill team... yeah, I would just take a bolter horde, 'specially since Preferred Enemy will help more than the other AoFs.

I took a squad of 5 sisters in a rhino and 5 seraphim against some space wolves in KT and massacred them (gotta love dual hand flamers, AoF and a metal bawx), but aside from the rhino (which is still vulnerable at AV10), against 1000sons they have the same survivability issue everyone else has.

Also my last battle I took grey knights and their storm bolters took out 1 1000son before I was wiped clean away, so I don't think the answer lies in weapons so much as being able to stick around long enough to make them count.

Still waiting for my mate to get round to try either a big ork horde or a tau stealth team, they still seem like the better options on paper ATM.

evanogainen wrote:

 darkflame182 wrote:
200 points = 20 shoota boys + 10 skugga boys. That's 30 orks enjoy :-)

30 boys = 6 rounds to kill, most likely to only do damage in CC tho, even if all 30 shoot prolly kill 1 marine, and that chance goes down each turn, so perhaps make em all sluggas, add 3 more and run to the kill....
Even at turn 3 I guess that's still more than a 3 to 1 CC ratio.

Could work.

I can see 2 possible games I'll be playing later

Rather more than that. 28 Shoota boyz gives you 56 shots, 18 hits, 9 wounds and 3 kills. That's about half his kill team down in a single volley of fire.
By comparison, his return fire kills three or four orks. Whoop-te-do.
Thousand sons will rip up stuff in powered armour but really, really don't like massed small arms fire.

I had a similar game a few weeks back where I was using a full cultist squad (35 cultists, heavy stubbers, shotgun, autoguns) and elite units really, really struggle to kill enough models to matter. The only real answer to a mob is grenades, but thousand sons (sadly for them!) don't get frag grenades.


There are no 'floors' rules in 7th that I'm aware of - you can charge bikes at people off the ground floor.

and yes, you can get two venoms in - one 5-man Kabalite Warriors squad, one Venom as a dedicated transport, one venom as a fast attack choice.


Fire warriors can do wonders too. Stick 'em in cover and use your range advantage. Not as good a kill ratio as the orks, but potentially you can drop one or two rubricae before they ever get to fire.

And yes, a tank is a good call. The big problem is that you can't split fire - so anything with more firepower than a razorback tends to result in massive overkill.


Sisters in an immolator should work well - they'll be rather more effective against every other kill team out there; you have cheap models, a one-use reroll to hit for each model, grenades and good armour. Every model can pull antitank duty if it needs to, and you've got enough small arms fire to chop up a horde at range.

locarno24 wrote:


There are no 'floors' rules in 7th that I'm aware of - you can charge bikes at people off the ground floor.

Really ? I was not aware of that, I thought if someone was up in a ruin to charge them you had to be able to get up into that ruin....
Assuming then you could charge a model many floors up, would you then take the 3" per floor off your charge distance ?

I also enjoy plague marines in kill team they're not perfect against 1k son's but youl get fnp and they'll wound on 5 , I had major sucess with plague marines in local tourney I took 2 place with I think 1 lose. But still I think blobs of infantry is best in kill team , Also you can go with grot madness!!! and put just crazy amounts of crazy gobos runing around shoting theirs little pistols

evanogainen wrote:

locarno24 wrote:


There are no 'floors' rules in 7th that I'm aware of - you can charge bikes at people off the ground floor.

Really ? I was not aware of that, I thought if someone was up in a ruin to charge them you had to be able to get up into that ruin....
Assuming then you could charge a model many floors up, would you then take the 3" per floor off your charge distance ?

Whatever's the appropriate vertical movement for the terrain in question.

Dangerous terrain, of course - but you've got skilled riders, so who cares?

How much terrain are you playing with? Kill team works best with a ton of terrain, you shouldn't really have any lengths longer then 12" clear of terrain, except a few kill lanes.

Jump infantry work exceptionally. They can advance, ignoring terrain, then jump straight into assault. 12" then a 3-4 inch charge range is easy. Either you kill him, and have your other guys backing them up with guns to shoot the others, or you stay locked in assault, in which case you're safe.

Throw some objectives in. Force them to play aggressively, and move to midfield. Kill teams one of the few places assault works, so it's good to take advantage of it, and makes it much more fun.

Sister's wipe the floor with Thousand Sons. Melta's with Preferred Enemy and Seraphim are excellent. Shield of Faith can save your ass, and they're fairly well costed, with an abundance of special weapons.

For marines, maybe bikes, or jump troopers? Mobility is key.

Sorry for the ramble, I don't mean to sounds like a self-righteous bastard, and apologies if I do at any point. Just what my group has discovered.

locarno24 wrote:

evanogainen wrote:

locarno24 wrote:


There are no 'floors' rules in 7th that I'm aware of - you can charge bikes at people off the ground floor.

Really ? I was not aware of that, I thought if someone was up in a ruin to charge them you had to be able to get up into that ruin....
Assuming then you could charge a model many floors up, would you then take the 3" per floor off your charge distance ?

Whatever's the appropriate vertical movement for the terrain in question.

Dangerous terrain, of course - but you've got skilled riders, so who cares?

So I'm still fairly sure assaulting a unit that is not at ground level in a bike is RAW ok, but bound to cause grief/arguments as a real world scenario... that said if part of that unit is on the ground then it's fine and pile-ins intrinsically mean they have to come down to you as you can't go up to them.
Even a Jetbike hovering up a floor is pushing the limits of realism somewhat.

Of course that doesn't help in Kill Team, cos there is no unit. :/

evanogainen wrote:

locarno24 wrote:

evanogainen wrote:

locarno24 wrote:


There are no 'floors' rules in 7th that I'm aware of - you can charge bikes at people off the ground floor.

Really ? I was not aware of that, I thought if someone was up in a ruin to charge them you had to be able to get up into that ruin....
Assuming then you could charge a model many floors up, would you then take the 3" per floor off your charge distance ?

Whatever's the appropriate vertical movement for the terrain in question.

Dangerous terrain, of course - but you've got skilled riders, so who cares?

So I'm still fairly sure assaulting a unit that is not at ground level in a bike is RAW ok, but bound to cause grief/arguments as a real world scenario... that said if part of that unit is on the ground then it's fine and pile-ins intrinsically mean they have to come down to you as you can't go up to them.
Even a Jetbike hovering up a floor is pushing the limits of realism somewhat.

Of course that doesn't help in Kill Team, cos there is no unit. :/

As opposed to (say) a unit of centurion moving up a floor in a ruin when said ruin has no ladders in the first place, let alone ones strong enough to support a model in centurion warplate?

For 195 points you can bring 15 tankbustas all packing ap3 rokkets. Just stay in cover and go to ground if you get shot.

lolz! this is the unbeatable Thousand Sons army part 2!

200 points is ~16 mandrakes.
32 S4 AP4 shots isn't bad, it's like 3 or 4 shooting kills a turn.
3 S4 attacks each on the charge (with move through cover), they aren't half bad in combat either.