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Hello,

If an IC rides in a chariot, is he still considered an IC? Can he join a unit?

I can't find anywhere in the rules that state he loses IC status when aboard, and thus can hide in a unit.

Depends on the codex.

For example, Logan Grimnar, while he does not lose the IC special rule, can not join nor be joined.

Chaos Daemons who take a chariot, lose the IC rule entirely.

Necrons does not specify, however, I believe they missed it in the update, and based on everyone else who has a chariot they would either lose the rule, or at least not be able to join/be joined.

Something I have noticed with the Frequently Asked Questions in the past:
If a new Codex is poised for release, the Errata is going to be written as if it was designed for the previous Edition... all so they don't announce any real changes prior to release....

I personally find it more annoying then helpful, but from a marketing point of view it makes sense as it forces people to purchase the newer Codex's in order to get the updated Rules. It just creates situations like this one, where the a single old Codex has access to a older version of the Rule which has obviously changed all because the company doesn't want to state what they are doing with that Model in the new Codex. It might give away too many 'company secrets' to actually fix the problem, so it is best to continue allowing it to be a problem for the player base until release date.

More than likely necrons will have the same update that space wolves got where they removed joining requirement from the rider. Until then current RAW the overlord has IC still and can join a unit as per the IC rules but that causes a lot of problems

They have had plenty of chances to do so, but the Necron Frequently Asked Question document remains silent on this matter.
I believe Game Workshop has already fixed this character... you will just need to pay them when they release the Codex for the answer.

A necron chariot that can join units is not a huge deal. The unit he joins cannot do Look Out Sir for him per the BRB. Further, no other IC can join the unit per the BRB. And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

A lot of people miss out on these qualifying factors and their knee-jerk reaction is OMG OP!! But, when you play it out as per the BRB its a minor buff.

col_impact wrote:
A necron chariot that can join units is not a huge deal. The unit he joins cannot do Look Out Sir for him per the BRB. Further, no other IC can join the unit per the BRB. And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

A lot of people miss out on these qualifying factors and their knee-jerk reaction is OMG OP!! But, when you play it out as per the BRB its a minor buff.

I would definitely not call it "minor" but I'm not sure it's overpowered.

col_impact wrote:
And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Scarabs, Triarch Praetorians or Canoptek Wraiths?

As others have said, I also noticed this loophole in the current rule set.

Angelic wrote:

col_impact wrote:
And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Scarabs, Triarch Praetorians or Canoptek Wraiths?

As others have said, I also noticed this loophole in the current rule set.

The CCB is considerably faster than all of those except the Tomb Blades.

col_impact wrote:

Angelic wrote:

col_impact wrote:
And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Scarabs, Triarch Praetorians or Canoptek Wraiths?

As others have said, I also noticed this loophole in the current rule set.

The CCB is considerably faster than all of those except the Tomb Blades.

... because it can flat out? Oooooh... yeah, that's so much faster.

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

Angelic wrote:

col_impact wrote:
And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

Destroyers, Tomb Blades, Canoptek Scarabs, Triarch Praetorians or Canoptek Wraiths?

As others have said, I also noticed this loophole in the current rule set.

The CCB is considerably faster than all of those except the Tomb Blades.

... because it can flat out? Oooooh... yeah, that's so much faster.

Yes indeed. I am glad you agree. It's tactically very significant, especially in the first turn.

While you can claim the poor writing leaves the overlord with the profile of independent character, there is still the problem that the CCB itself profile exists and has the vehicle fast skimmer open topped type, and does not disappear either.

Although ICs can join units that are not MC or vehicles, there is no permission for vehicles to join units, so not sure how you are going to get around ignoring the type: vehicle part of the profile joining a unit, as that is not permitted.

blaktoof wrote:
While you can claim the poor writing leaves the overlord with the profile of independent character, there is still the problem that the CCB itself profile exists and has the vehicle fast skimmer open topped type, and does not disappear either.

Although ICs can join units that are not MC or vehicles, there is no permission for vehicles to join units, so not sure how you are going to get around ignoring the type: vehicle part of the profile joining a unit, as that is not permitted.

ICs can join units. Whether something is an MC or a vehicle does not bear into it. ICs are only restricted from joining units of MCs or vehicles. You are making up restrictions where none exist. BTW, there is a riptide MC IC that can join units, but no other IC can join that unit.

the chariots profile isn't just IC.

the chariot has 2 profiles, one may be IC, the other is definately vehicle.

how are you joining a vehicle to a unit?

the riptide doesn't have a dual profile where one of them is not an IC and is a vehicle.

blaktoof wrote:
the chariots profile isn't just IC.

the chariot has 2 profiles, one may be IC, the other is definately vehicle.

how are you joining a vehicle to a unit?

the riptide doesn't have a dual profile where one of them is not an IC and is a vehicle.

It has 2 profiles, but it's one model. The IC rules refer to the model with the rule, not the profile with the rule.

blaktoof wrote:
the chariots profile isn't just IC.

the chariot has 2 profiles, one may be IC, the other is definately vehicle.

how are you joining a vehicle to a unit?

the riptide doesn't have a dual profile where one of them is not an IC and is a vehicle.

Independent Character USR is simply evoked and the chariot model joins the unit. The SW chariot and the Chaos chariots explicitly block this from happening. The necron chariot does not block this from happening.

I see the necron CCB joining a unit to be a shot in the foot if anything. Since when the CCB joins a unit it is no longer a Chariot unit and can no longer allocate each hit pool. The vehicle part pretty much becomes pointless since the unit is taking wounds and the only part of the profile that can have wounds allocated to it is the rider part of the chariot. IN assault the attacker can still decide to attack the rider or the chariot since it states chariot model and not chariot unit.

col_impact wrote:
A necron chariot that can join units is not a huge deal. The unit he joins cannot do Look Out Sir for him per the BRB. Further, no other IC can join the unit per the BRB. And even further, he generally sacrifices mobility to babysit the unit he joins.

A lot of people miss out on these qualifying factors and their knee-jerk reaction is OMG OP!! But, when you play it out as per the BRB its a minor buff.

In fact it is terrible. I roll to hit the unit, I then roll to wound vs majority toughness and the Lord has to take the wounds as he has no LoS and can not assign wounds to the chariot as only hits can be.

This is another one of those 'how the hell do you determine a Unit's Unit-type' sort of things but:
The Chariot Rule triggers after To Hit rolls are made, allowing the defending player to allocate them before To-Wound rolls are made.

It's very simple:

1. Chariots are totally fethed up. None of their rules make sense.
2. Necron Codex is totally fethed up. It's been outdated for ages and GW doesn't care about it because they're releasing a new one in a few months at most.

The answer is simple: wait a few months.

Until then, you can join CCB to Necron units.

Regarding how to resolve hits/wounds: if the vehicle profile is going to be invoked, you follow the squadron rules.

col_impact wrote:
Regarding how to resolve hits/wounds: if the vehicle profile is going to be invoked, you follow the squadron rules.

that's beyond a leap in made up stuff.

The unit is in no way a vehicle squadron if 1 model has a dual profile where one is IC and one is vehicle.

blaktoof wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Regarding how to resolve hits/wounds: if the vehicle profile is going to be invoked, you follow the squadron rules.

that's beyond a leap in made up stuff.

The unit is in no way a vehicle squadron if 1 model has a dual profile where one is IC and one is vehicle.

GW is silent on what to do. If you actually read the squadron rules you will see it provides the way to resolve tricky situations like this one. It's not really a leap since the squadron rules basically show how to resolve things in a methodical one hit allocated at a time fashion.

That's not how the CCB works in a unit though. You wound on majority toughness and then assign wounds to models. Effectively it is the same as not having the CCB for the Lord.

 FlingitNow wrote:
That's not how the CCB works in a unit though. You wound on majority toughness and then assign wounds to models. Effectively it is the same as not having the CCB for the Lord.

If hits are being allocated to the chariot profile you don't roll to wound. Following the squadron guideline is really the way to resolve the situations where the chariot profile is being invoked in a unit. It's basically going through the hit allocation process one hit at a time.

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
That's not how the CCB works in a unit though. You wound on majority toughness and then assign wounds to models. Effectively it is the same as not having the CCB for the Lord.

If hits are being allocated to the chariot profile you don't roll to wound. Following the squadron guideline is really the way to resolve the situations where the chariot profile is being invoked in a unit. It's basically going through the hit allocation process one hit at a time.

Its not a squadron though.

Hits aren't allocated. Wounds are. Changing the rules to suit your combo is cheating. Put a CCB in a unit and you still get wounded on majority T you get no LoS and your Lord takes the wounds. My advice tactically is to not put a CCB with a unit as it makes it much easier to kill. But if you want to do it you have to accept the consequences.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Hits aren't allocated. Wounds are. Changing the rules to suit your combo is cheating. Put a CCB in a unit and you still get wounded on majority T you get no LoS and your Lord takes the wounds. My advice tactically is to not put a CCB with a unit as it makes it much easier to kill. But if you want to do it you have to accept the consequences.

Per the chariot rules, I choose the profile that receives the hits and wounds when its being shot at. If I choose chariot, all those wounds will bounce off the chariot profile. It's perfectly legal to allocate wounds to a vehicle, it just gets nullified.

However, that's dumb. So you follow a one hit at a time methodology of resolving the situation which works out the whole matter exactly as it should be. And which as a matter of fact how the squadron rules outline how to resolve the matter in a situation similar to this one.

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Hits aren't allocated. Wounds are. Changing the rules to suit your combo is cheating. Put a CCB in a unit and you still get wounded on majority T you get no LoS and your Lord takes the wounds. My advice tactically is to not put a CCB with a unit as it makes it much easier to kill. But if you want to do it you have to accept the consequences.

Per the chariot rules, I choose the profile that receives the hits and wounds when its being shot at. If I choose chariot, all those wounds will bounce off the chariot profile. It's perfectly legal to allocate wounds to a vehicle, it just gets nullified.

However, that's dumb. So you follow a one hit at a time methodology of resolving the situation.

The chariot rules let you allocate hits which you can't do while in a unit

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Hits aren't allocated. Wounds are. Changing the rules to suit your combo is cheating. Put a CCB in a unit and you still get wounded on majority T you get no LoS and your Lord takes the wounds. My advice tactically is to not put a CCB with a unit as it makes it much easier to kill. But if you want to do it you have to accept the consequences.

Per the chariot rules, I choose the profile that receives the hits and wounds when its being shot at. If I choose chariot, all those wounds will bounce off the chariot profile. It's perfectly legal to allocate wounds to a vehicle, it just gets nullified.

The rule you're referring to starts with "When shooting at a chariot unit". If it's attached to another unit, that's no longer a "chariot unit". Therefore, the allocating rule cannot be invoked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Hits aren't allocated. Wounds are. Changing the rules to suit your combo is cheating. Put a CCB in a unit and you still get wounded on majority T you get no LoS and your Lord takes the wounds. My advice tactically is to not put a CCB with a unit as it makes it much easier to kill. But if you want to do it you have to accept the consequences.

Per the chariot rules, I choose the profile that receives the hits and wounds when its being shot at. If I choose chariot, all those wounds will bounce off the chariot profile. It's perfectly legal to allocate wounds to a vehicle, it just gets nullified.

However, that's dumb. So you follow a one hit at a time methodology of resolving the situation.

which you can't do while in a unit

Yes you can, but it has to be a "chariot unit" as per the rules