[Star Wars] Disney+ SW shows(spoilers)

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**Gitzbitah**

Slipspace wrote:
The Acolyte suffers from the same problem that ST Discovery and Ironheart did, IMO. The main character (or characters, in this case) is probably the least interesting part of it. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on and there's probably a good story and a good series in there somewhere, but it isn't the one they chose to concentrate on.

Agreed. And it's a much worse problem, as the lead actress is trying to play 2 roles. There are some really interesting elements, and wonderful performances- Manny Jacinto and Lee Jung-Jae were the standouts for me. The fights were excellent, but the pacing and structure are so hard to get past. I still think a supercut where it was put in order would have been more effective and enjoyable. In many ways an 'almost good' show is more frustrating than a flat out bad one, like Book of Boba Fett.

**Geifer**

LordofHats wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
insaniak wrote:
While certainly annoying, that's been the case since the Prequels, though.

This. It takes the same amount of time for Yoda to fly across Coruscant to get to Sidious as it does for Obi-Wan to fly to Mustafar.

And then Sidious can get from Coruscant to Mustafar within enough time that not only is Anakin not dead from being a toasty marshmallow, but they can fly back to Coruscant to get Anakin kitted out in a fancy cyborg suit before Padme even finishes labour.

I'd contend that while still dumb, it's markedly different in Acolyte because the time warp forms a substantial plot hole from episode 1 of the series and all of the characters are too artificially stupid to ask basic questions in a mystery series.

How Osha could possibly have gotten from A to B to A again and then to C is a pivotal step one question absolutely no one bothers to ask (followed by, frankly a series of other high questionable plot points that do little more than invite us to wonder who wrote this gak rather than wonder what's going on), which for a show that sets itself up as a mystery is a cardinal sin that then dogs the rest of the series by calling out how lazy the plot is from the get go. This is similar to the core problem of the prequel trilogy; the Jedi never bother to ask any of the pertinent questions about how the Clone Army came to exist at all, or how Dooku was connected to it despite ample reason to see one as directly connected to the other and be suspicious.

The fact that some crummy movies had also committed the same flaw, isn't really a defense of the Acolyte at all. At least the prequels have Ian McGregor saying 'hello there' and a bizarrely poetic rant about how much sand sucks. At least those edge into the realm of being so bad they're kind of good.

The clone army thing could have been sorted out fairly smoothly. At that point no one had a clue who Sifo-Dyas was. Had Lucas just let a council member drop a line to the effect of he was becoming unhinged in his doom mongering and was retired from the Jedi council, it could have convincingly sold the commission of the clone army as the action of a rogue Jedi with an unstable history. Instead Obi-Wan questions whether Sifo-Dyaz was still alive at the time, and that is never followed up on. So close...

I'm not sure The Acolyte's problems could have been avoided so smoothly. Which, as other people have already pointed out, is a shame since the show's failure makes more forays into different points in time that much unlikelier.

**LunarSol**

Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

**Lathe Biosas**

LunarSol wrote:
Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

I have a hard time believing that anything from Attack of the Clones makes sense.

**Geifer**

LunarSol wrote:
Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

Can't say it makes much sense to me that the Jedi would take command of an army explicitly commissioned by their sworn enemy, and explicitly for use by the Republic. Care to elaborate?

Lathe Biosas wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

I have a hard time believing that anything from Attack of the Clones makes sense.

Don't be like that. I find Anakin's argument against sand convincing.

**A Town Called Malus**

Geifer wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

Can't say it makes much sense to me that the Jedi would take command of an army explicitly commissioned by their sworn enemy, and explicitly for use by the Republic. Care to elaborate?

I dunno, I think that at least has some "use the weapon of your enemy against them" logic to it. Plus you wouldn't blindly trust them if you knew that origin.

Mind you, you also shouldn't blindly trust an army made out of clones of one of your enemies agents, commissioned in secret (with what money?) by some rando. Literally a case of "evil triumphs because good is dumb".

Kinda renders the "genius" of Sidious managing to play both sides against each other and come out on top with space fascism a bit laughable. Well done, you outsmarted the people who have less critical thought than an unsupervised kindergarten.

**LunarSol**

Geifer wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Lets be clear. Sifo-Dyas is a typo that for whatever reason Lucas decided to turn into a whole new character and an unexplainable subplot for no reason. Almost everything about that scene makes sense when it was just an awkwardly pronounced "Sidious".

Can't say it makes much sense to me that the Jedi would take command of an army explicitly commissioned by their sworn enemy, and explicitly for use by the Republic. Care to elaborate?

The Jedi don't actually know Sidious exists at that point. It's mostly just a way to let the audience know Palpatine was behind it with a close enough pseudonym that doesn't mean anything to the Jedi.

There are definitely elements of the Syfo-Dyas version that work as well, but at the time it's really distracting to introduce this pivotal character with zero follow up. Even the eventual explanation is kind of hand wavey force vision stuff that doesn't really click with the rest of Palpatine's scheme very well. It's something that felt like a retcon to something that hadn't even been introduced yet.

**LordofHats**

That wouldn't really fix it because regardless of Syfo-Dyas the Jedi know that Dooku is Darth Tyrannus because people call him that while they're around, and Jango tells Obi-Wan upfront he was hired by a man named Tyrannus. And then he just leaves Kamino and goes straight to Dooku. I don't think anyone even bothers trying to find out who Tyrannus is even though they're told his name and come across it several times.

Like, it's something that gets dumber and dumber every time they address it, complete with Dooku telling Obi-Wan straight up what's going on but no one asks any questions. You kind of just have to ignore the stupidity of the characters and the plot and just enjoy the cheesy silliness of the whole thing.

And the Acolyte has the same problem in many ways, but unlike the prequels which were just adventure stories, The Acoylte premises itself as mystery series; you can't get away with laziness in a mystery series like you can in other genres.