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So I saw the models maybe last week, and while they have lackluster rules, I really do enjoy the looks of them. BUT, since the tyranids tend to always get screwed i kind of dont want to support GW with these releases. So what do you think?

Toxicrene looks good to me. A lot of people are complaining about the 4+ save. It gets shrouded free so any type of cover will boost that to +3 including other models. No need to hide next to the Venoms.

It isn't even that expensive and it looks pretty vicious in CC and at close range. I think it is going to turn out to be a gem.

I also don't think the Maleceptor is going to be that bad mainly because of the ability to fire 3 ignore cover glancing hits a turn at a vehicle. If you have a lot of psykers it could be a decent answer verse some of the more annoying vehicles like land raiders or ghost arks. Something which nids struggle with. However, it is not looking too great and maybe a little too pricy. WS will also eat it for lunch.

Hmm neither for me at the moment. I just finished up a dimachaeron which I prefer in cc to the toxicrene. The maleceptor reminds me of a week DoM and for psychic powers Id prefer finishing out my zoan brood. I like new models just fine, I'm just on the fence about them for now. I was really looking forward to painting my grey Knights I guess.

Does the psychic bug still has to hit with his psychic power besides getting the power off?

I believe it does though Im not positive on that... if it doesnt then it might be useful and provide a meaningful AA solution to the nid army. Also, to cast it three times is minimum 6 warp charge, more realistically probably 9-12, so youre going to need a few psykers in your list to take advantage of it, as the Maleceptor itself is only ML2.

The toxicrene, I think, is almost good. If it had the venomthropes spore cloud ability itd be amazing, if it had more attacks in cc itd be pretty good, otherwise its just kind of "meh", dont see much point to taking it over a Trygon personally.

It seems the writers don't realize how much of a hit our big bugs took in cc with the nerf to scything talons. I never minded ws3 on them since you could take two sets of talons but now the ws is mugh more important. Poor trygons and scythed hierodules.

nedTCM wrote:
Toxicrene looks good to me. A lot of people are complaining about the 4+ save. It gets shrouded free so any type of cover will boost that to +3 including other models. No need to hide next to the Venoms.

It isn't even that expensive and it looks pretty vicious in CC and at close range. I think it is going to turn out to be a gem.

I also don't think the Maleceptor is going to be that bad mainly because of the ability to fire 3 ignore cover glancing hits a turn at a vehicle. If you have a lot of psykers it could be a decent answer verse some of the more annoying vehicles like land raiders or ghost arks. Something which nids struggle with. However, it is not looking too great and maybe a little too pricy. WS will also eat it for lunch.

The problem is, it can't hit a vehicle with "3 ignore cover glancing hits a turn". It can only use the power against once against a single target per turn. So best case scenario, assuming that you get the power off every turn, that the opponent never denies you, that you hit every time, that they fail the leadership test, it still takes three turns to kill your average vehicle, assuming you live that long. The reality of it is that the odds of it doing anything to a vehicle is damned near nil. If there happens to be three vehicles all within range of the thing, then in theory you could kill all three over the course of those three turns, but the odds of that actually happening are even worse than the odds of it killing one over the course of three turns.

For the Maleceptor to accomplish anything meaningful over the course of the game your opponent has to purposely ignore it. Which considering its defensive capabilities and cost, is somewhat laughable. There's not really a situation in the game where you're better off taking the Maleceptor than four zoanthropes, or a carnifex with dual devourers which is fifty points less.

I think that they still need to fix the fundamental issue with melee TMCs: They need to be able move faster than 6 inches a turn. Allowing them to move like 9 inches would do a lot.

The Toxicrene looks decent enough and I like the model, so I will be using one in my games. Maybe even two.

The Maleceptor on the other hand is full of so much fail that I will resist the urge to build one because I do like the model.

I'll consider them when nids get a decent codex or a serious errata to fix the many units/biomorphs that are in need of it.

No need for more MCs when there are so many problems with many of the ones we have.

 beardman3000 wrote:
So I saw the models maybe last week, and while they have lackluster rules,

Just like how the Riptide had lackluster rules. Now look how everyone cries Cheese. I am not saying this is the case for the Toxicrene and Maleceptor but stop we should stop mathhammering before we even play with them. Again Riptide has proven the Internet and most people wrong. Try before being so negative.

I really do enjoy the looks of them.

I didn't like them at all. Now they are finally growing on me. I am liking them now, even more than the last Nid MC release which I did not get.

BUT, since the tyranids tend to always get screwed i kind of dont want to support GW with these releases. So what do you think?

Don't want to support GW? What are you doing? You are supporting GW right now by talking about them. You are supporting GW when you are playing 40K. So not buying because you don't want to "support" GW seems foolish to me.

You like it, buy it. Don't like it, don't buy it. Don't want to support GW, then leave, quit or take a break. I have taken a break and now I see how foolish I was by complaining and crying about GW. Like really, why play something that you don't want to Support? If GW is so evil, then why play/collect? If GW is so bad, why stay? Obviously you are staying. You are playing and or collecting still. So the only one who is going to miss out by you "not supporting GW" is you. You are missing out on something that you want.

It's one thing not to agree with GW practices. It's ok to like the product and dislike the company. It's also ok to not buy anything and still play the game as you can. It's another thing trying to be cool on the internet and talk negatively about GW while still buying and playing their products.

So that being said, you like it buy it. I don't know why you said Toxicrene or Maleceptor or neither because that is not even in your post. You either the Toxicrene or Maleceptor. I thought you were asking if you should buy it and what to make. All I read is, you want to be in the "hate" camp against GW but still want to "play" what they make. Seems a bit foolish now eh?

I say buy it. Seems like you want it. You don't need the "cool internet" to give you permission to buy something from GW.

Want it, get it. Don't want it or don't like it don't get it. Going to take a stand, then you really need to quit or take a break. Since you don't want to quit or take a break might as well enjoy it the most. So get your Toxicrene or Maleceptor and enjoy it and just have fun.

Not crazy about the models, their rules, or the pricetag, so I'll be taking a pass.

I still don't know, I purchased the White dwarf today, and will give it some thought. It may not suit my "style" though...

Davor wrote:

 beardman3000 wrote:
So I saw the models maybe last week, and while they have lackluster rules,

Just like how the Riptide had lackluster rules. Now look how everyone cries Cheese. I am not saying this is the case for the Toxicrene and Maleceptor but stop we should stop mathhammering before we even play with them. Again Riptide has proven the Internet and most people wrong. Try before being so negative.

-sigh- People say this sort of thing all the time, but as far as I can remember no one said that the Riptide sucked. In fact, as far as I can remember of the Tau release, everyone said that they were going to be the new go-to unit. I can't really see that happening here, although the Toxicrene looks pretty useful imho.

Just came back from a test game where my opponent proxed the new models. They didn't win their points back. 12" range is not really useful, and when you're that close you do not want to remove models to increase charge distance. That new psychic power is not really good either. 2 warp points when it is only 1d3 wounds? Psychic Shriek is way better. Ahriman can use it 3 times a turn and it is not really dominating the meta. So why give Tyranids only powers that are inferior to the standard powers?!

The 2 new models would have been a chance to make non-FMC lists viable once again. But I guess it's FMV only until a new codex comes...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just came back from a test game where my opponent proxed the new models. They didn't win their points back. 12" range is not really useful, and when you're that close you do not want to remove models to increase charge distance. That new psychic power is not really good either. 2 warp points when it is only 1d3 wounds? Psychic Shriek is way better. Ahriman can use it 3 times a turn and it is not really dominating the meta. So why give Tyranids only powers that are inferior to the standard powers?!

The 2 new models would have been a chance to make non-FMC lists viable once again. But I guess it's FMV only until a new codex comes...

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Davor wrote:

 beardman3000 wrote:
So I saw the models maybe last week, and while they have lackluster rules,

Just like how the Riptide had lackluster rules. Now look how everyone cries Cheese. I am not saying this is the case for the Toxicrene and Maleceptor but stop we should stop mathhammering before we even play with them. Again Riptide has proven the Internet and most people wrong. Try before being so negative.

-sigh- People say this sort of thing all the time, but as far as I can remember no one said that the Riptide sucked. In fact, as far as I can remember of the Tau release, everyone said that they were going to be the new go-to unit. I can't really see that happening here, although the Toxicrene looks pretty useful imho.

I usually have a bad memory. The only reason why I remember this is because of all the comments of "Beautiful mini, crappy rules, shame will only be getting one for collection."

Now we have people using 2 or even 3 of them.

People did say the Riptide was bad, the Wraithknight was trash, and that grav centurions were mediocre at best. On this very site. People are wrong a lot.

Having said that don't think that either of these new MC is particularly great. They do have a decent number of wounds but they both have fatal flaws.

The maleceptor would be pretty great if it's power was WC1 however with WC2 powers you are very likely to either do nothing or perils the units to death (we are talking about 9 WC dice a turn to even have a 50% chance to manifest each attempt, that is almost a 1/4 chance to perils each turn). Otherwise it is a mediocre CC, synapse MC. It can do a semi decent job anchoring a nid advance with some decent psychic buffs, at least they are more durable than zoanthropes. The saddest part is even after you manifest the power you only have a 25% chance to glance a vehicle...not including deny the witch attempts, ouch.

The Toxicrene is a slow MC with only a 4+ save. This is troubling in itself. However the really troubling part is it neither has the number of attacks to break out of a tarpit not the ability to engage AV13+ effectively. For a MC which is not fast enough to avoid fights to have a huge number of fights it needs to avoid is a bad position. The shooting attack on it is actually pretty cool, though not super useful. If they had given it spore cloud or made the shooting attack 24-36" range they would have been great.

Though they will probably have a formation or something that will make them fantastic. Look at helbrutes.

It looks like forelimbs and head/upper carapace (which is bound to the head as a single part) are the only core differences. So chances are with a few magnets you can have both very easily (unless you want to go very dynamic with poses).

The pose difference they show doesn't appear to have any features that limit it to one form so you can have both standing over a fallen marine.

So on that score if you want to use magnets you can make up both options and choose which you want to use.



My gut feeling is a formation with venomthropes/zoanthropes might come along - at least so long as we get a re-release of those two models (or a new production wave as they are both now removed from GW stores world wide it seems).



Personally I'll get at least one if not two (magnetic) love the models!

I can forsee a formation already.

2 Toxicrenes
1 Maleceptor
1 Venomthrope brood

-Maleceptor gets an extra 6 inches of synapse range and the ability to reroll psychic(warp dice) tests.

-If models stay within 18 inches of the Maleceptor, all models get +1 to cover saves and an extra d6 charge range.

Not a push to sell models, not at all

Where's the option for both? I'll probably eventually get both. I especially like the look of the Malaceptor, even though it's rules seem quite lackluster.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Where's the option for both? I'll probably eventually get both. I especially like the look of the Malaceptor, even though it's rules seem quite lackluster.

Sorry I forgot one .... But I am just gonna wait until i see how they play, like the previous commenter, they don't seem to me they will get there points back... So i shall wait for reviews on him then decide!

The Maleceptor rules are probably the worst TMC we have ever gotten. It is that bad.

The Toxicrene I can at least seeing some play on the tabletop.

It's a shame, because I really do like both of the models.

Makumba wrote:
Does the psychic bug still has to hit with his psychic power besides getting the power off?

Doooooooooooooon't you'll get the boulder rolling again!

I've got only one thing to say. I don't think so and I've explained time and time again, very lengthily why I think so. If you want to have my opinion, go look in another thread.

 Murenius wrote:
Just came back from a test game where my opponent proxed the new models. They didn't win their points back. 12" range is not really useful, and when you're that close you do not want to remove models to increase charge distance. That new psychic power is not really good either. 2 warp points when it is only 1d3 wounds? Psychic Shriek is way better. Ahriman can use it 3 times a turn and it is not really dominating the meta. So why give Tyranids only powers that are inferior to the standard powers?!

The 2 new models would have been a chance to make non-FMC lists viable once again. But I guess it's FMV only until a new codex comes...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just came back from a test game where my opponent proxed the new models. They didn't win their points back. 12" range is not really useful, and when you're that close you do not want to remove models to increase charge distance. That new psychic power is not really good either. 2 warp points when it is only 1d3 wounds? Psychic Shriek is way better. Ahriman can use it 3 times a turn and it is not really dominating the meta. So why give Tyranids only powers that are inferior to the standard powers?!

The 2 new models would have been a chance to make non-FMC lists viable once again. But I guess it's FMV only until a new codex comes...

The difference with Psychic Shriek and the Maleceptor rule is that the Maleceptor is a focussed witchfire, so you can snipe pesky models from units. T
Even with that there are still 2 major problems:

You'd have to get 3 passes on a psychic test in order to choose your model.

Look out sir is a major counter to this power. If you want to kill a warlord with this, he only has to make a 2+ save

Now I get that there're still 2 things you can do with this power:

Picking out heavy/special weapons from units

Wounding vehicles, which is obviously its intended purpose, given that it gives special permission to hit them

That said, if either the WC would go down by one or if it would prohibit the use of 'Look out, sir!' to re-alocate the wounds, it would be a kick-ass power.
And it would be logical from a fluffy point of view, because how do you jump infront of a blow that's dealt to someone's mind instead of any physical threat?

I find it amusing how when GW releases a powerful model people complain for the "pay to win DLCs", and when they release medium-strength ones people complain that they are not good enough and that "DLC formations will come".

No win for GW here.


As for rolling to-hit, its a focused witchfire, read the witchfire rules.

Overall Id say the toxic dude has potential, but the psyker is probably not the sharpest tool in the shed. (you need to get 3 warp charges off to actually hit a target of your choice. that power would be great at WC1, but just useless at 2 unless there is that one hidden dude that REALLY must die and you throw your entire battery at it.)

 BoomWolf wrote:
No win for GW here.

Crazy idea, but maybe they'd win more if they didn't release models with wildly varying levels of power

 BoomWolf wrote:
I find it amusing how when GW releases a powerful model people complain for the "pay to win DLCs", and when they release medium-strength ones people complain that they are not good enough and that "DLC formations will come".

No win for GW here.

The Maleceptor is hardly even "medium-strength"... it's Pyrovore levels of bad. Even that wasn't saved by formations, I'm not holding out much hope for this new bug.

As for rolling to-hit, its a focused witchfire, read the witchfire rules.

Those rules are ambiguously written to the point that many people have been asking for a FAQ since they came out. Unfortunately popular opinion errs against the Maleceptor...

Toxicrene is pretty nice, and point efficient in my opinion. Though, the Maleceptor is god awful. I would probably never field one.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I find it amusing how when GW releases a powerful model people complain for the "pay to win DLCs", and when they release medium-strength ones people complain that they are not good enough and that "DLC formations will come".

No win for GW here.

It's almost as if people want units that are balanced.

I know, crazy.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I find it amusing how when GW releases a powerful model people complain for the "pay to win DLCs", and when they release medium-strength ones people complain that they are not good enough and that "DLC formations will come".

No win for GW here.

It's almost as if people want units that are balanced.

I know, crazy.

Honestly, the Toxicrene is usable, while not being obnoxiously powerful. The Maleceptor is far below usable though. It's outshined by a Tervigon, of all things. Its psychic power is nice, I guess, but will suck up your Warp dice. If everything was on the Toxicrene level, that'd be cool. I just don't understand why the Maleceptor is 205 points for what it does, and will be instagibbed by a Rail gun.

The Maleceptor has a cool looking model, but yeah, its rules are...not inspiring. Between needing two warp charges, having to roll to hit (and the dealio with Focussed witchfire powers needing to exceed casting value to hit the targeted model instead of closest), and having little value aside from that power, it's probably 40-50pts overcosted.

The Toxicrene isn't awful, I can see a use for it. Shrouded means it can follow behind another unit of largish models and rock a 3+ cover save, it's got an impressive number of attacks that will rarely fail to wound most enemies (and is *very* dangerous against other MC's, especially with those Lash Whips), and can dump Tarpits fairly easily between its large number of attacks and Toxic Miasma unless they're both huge and fearless. The biggest weakness here to me is that it's a Heavy Support unit, were it an Elites or something then it would be a lot more enticing.