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"Argh, these rotten 'umies and puny elders is shootin up all me boyz! Eva since dey started shootin at us as we wuz chargin in we'z not been able to crump em right an proppa! Just can't be da orks like we used to boyz....dis is rotten."

Warbosses, is this you? Are you frustrated with your codex? Are you angry with the fact that your boyz can't seem to get the job done? Green tide making you blue? Well, the first step to fixing your woes is to make sure you're taking the quick and easy steps to success. Many ork generals just want to get in and krump things and the changes to their rules may have slipped by-that's fine! We're going to include a quick and easy checklist of things to do to improve your odds.

1) REMEMBER YOUR RULES.

Many many many ork players I know say that the introduction of Overwatch did in the orks, and they got no buffs in compensation so melee armies are outdated and weak. I then watch these same players charge a mob of naked boyz at an enemy, shoot their sluggas, roll a low charge distance and shake their fist at the sky. What they don't remember is:

-If you fail a charge, remember your new 'ere we go! Rule. This thing is an absolute lifesaver.
-Don't forget to throw your stikkbombs! All ork infantry and most independent characters now have a tad bit more oomph in the form of stikkbombs. Even Gretchins have them, and Trukks with Chukkas! It may only amount to a couple extra wounds, but hey-so does overwatch.
-Your Waaaaagh now allows you to run and charge, use that if you really need distance.

A couple other tips for commanders frustrated with getting all shot up all the time:

-You've got 3 HQ choices, and most ork HQs are primarily force multipliers, that means they're great for keeping your boyz safe and sound as they charge up.
--Big Meks with KFFs are perfect for Trukk wings. When I run speed freaks I put one in a vehicle and stick it in the middle of a group of three vehicles to grant cover to all my transports as they take fire.
--Warbosses have the answer to your mob rule woes with the big boss pole. You can make your fire magnet boyz squad fearless if the regular nob boss poles aren't good enough.
--Weirdboyz have access to the awesome Da Jump and Warpath powers to buff your models offensively, even if they are the high risk /high reward ork HQ type. Always take mastery level 2!
--Doks can now be attached to any squad-and a 30 man blob with Eavy armor and FNP is a tough nut to crack!

-Gretchins squads have never been more useful. Not only do they still grant their handy cover save, they nullify the overwatch rule if you charge them in first. My green tide list never leaves home without a few units of grots to secure objectives and lead the charge.

-Your HQs can also directly increase your durability. I love tanking large blasts with my mega armored Warboss out front of a big blob of boys.

-Every mob can now take Eavy armor. This is HUGE for da boyz and can make a 30 man blob with a Painboy into an absolute juggernaut. Not only does it make you much more durable getting into combat, it makes you far more likely to win.

That's not how KFF's work anymore. I'm pretty sure if you're in a vehicle, the vehicle gets the save and it doesn't extend out. Take a morkanaught if you want turn 1 durability on your trukks/wagons.

You forgot to list the painboy in our HQs. Run into combat with 30 FNP choppa boyz. It's awesome.

I only play unbound but:

Regular Bikers are awesome!! I run a mob of bikers with BikerPainBoy, BikerKFFBigMek with Killsaw, and BikerBoss with as many single Ork DeffKopta units as possible. Excellent, cheap, objective taking MSU that is immune to falling back due to shooting. Also great for Behind Enemy Lines and such.

They also assault units BEFORE the bikes to soak up Overwatch. Finally, add in some MSU Lootas for back objectives. BTW my league only plays Maelstrom missions.

I would rank a 2nd CAD detachment in place of the ork FoC, if only because of objective secured and such, plus it allows more slots and is fairly easy to obtain.


I would add a few things:

-Split charge when possible with a big squad! even the loss of an extra attack is worth it for being able to get stuck in two combats at once. I have a 20 man mob and it's great for eliminating at least two targets at once in an assault phase.

-BattleWagons are a great transport for a big mob, but dont overspend on upgrades like guns and such. defiantly splurge on things like the boarding plank!

-Forgeworld is awesome for adding some spice to your lists. the Dredd mob pdf has some goodies to add to a regular list including big trakks, which can provide baskilisk like shots for a relatively low cost.

-Big choppas are pretty good for a low point ork squad.

Ork players here. My only army is of orks. I'm still relatively new (I've played somewhere around 15 games of orks, ranging from 500-1850 points). Here is what I've found about HQs while playing at a local hobby store.

Preface: The meta at my local hobby store is compromised of "mostly" no flyers. Games are generally played with legal forged detachments.

HQs:
Warbosses are amazing, but only in mega armor or on a bike. With Da Lucky Stikk and mega armor, my warboss has endured squad after squad of Marines, Eldar, and Necron shooting and lived to tell about it. The biggest problem: he can't move. No mobility in a mobile-dominant race is a problem. He can't run, shoot (efficiently) or chase enemies. Also, he tends to get one shot with any weapon with a strength 10. This is why I feel the warboss on a bike is superior. This fixes each of his issues: Makes him mobile, makes him shooty, makes him dodgey, and makes him have toughness 6, almost impossible to instant kill.

Big Meks: Great compliment to any unit, though I've found he is best in supporting and providing cover to other HQs. Take one of these on a bike a well to provide your trukks with that invuln and make it to where they may actually live to see turn two and get that amazing 24 inch move we all hope for. I have found that they are practically useless in mega armor, having SAG, or tellaporty blaster. Giving them Da Fixer Upper is amazing in a vehicle-dominant list. Having a big mek in a battlewagon (KFF & da fixer upper) with 15 lootas is one the best times that I've had, though this puts a HUGE target on it.

Painboyz: Another great HQ that is complimentary; usually does best as a support to other HQs. I've had good and bad results with them. Again, careful about instant death since you get no FNP. A pain boy on a bike is amazing for complimenting any list, since you can attach and detach them to units at will. I usually run them as the following: with 30 footslogging shoota boyz, with 19 other slugga boyz in a battle wagon, with a warboss unit of bikes, nobz, or meganobz, or on a bike with 20+ stormboyz. Very cheap for what you get. Always take one.

Wierdboy: I have never had a good experience with a wierdboy. Maybe its just my play style, but each time I have brought one it has been utterly useless. There are so many other, better HQs out there, the wierdboy quickly falls off the list. Painboyz go further and do more than wierdboyz imo. Avoid, avoid, avoid.

I am flustered with most ork related threads right now.

A painboy in 30 boyz is asking for every str 8 shot and pie plate to place there. It's like a lone battlewagon in a footslog list.

A big mek KFF argue ably can't fit enough valueable models in 6 " to warrant the upgrade without one pie plate overwhelming the invulnerable save with wounds.

I think it's green tide or severe MSU. I don't have enough board experience to preach it

 Rismonite wrote:
I am flustered with most ork related threads right now.

A painboy in 30 boyz is asking for every str 8 shot and pie plate to place there. It's like a lone battlewagon in a footslog list.

A big mek KFF argue ably can't fit enough valueable models in 6 " to warrant the upgrade without one pie plate overwhelming the invulnerable save with wounds.

I think it's green tide or severe MSU. I don't have enough board experience to preach it

If they are shooting all their S8 at your boyz. Then they are not shooting it at you walkers, nobs and other stuff.

You can actually fit a lot uunder that 6 inch bubble.

New to orks and want to see what peoples thoughts are on Gorkanauts.

Do they die for you turn 1?

Made a list with:

Weirdboy
10 Boyz - Shootas Nob PK BP Trukk
10 Boyz - Shootas Nob PK BP Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
Dakkajet - Xtra Supa Shoota, Flyboss
10 Lootas
10 Lootas
Gorkanaut - Grot Riggers, Extra Armour

Just a fun shooting army that has plenty of dakka while it advances.

Incognito15 wrote:
New to orks and want to see what peoples thoughts are on Gorkanauts.

Do they die for you turn 1?

Made a list with:

Weirdboy
10 Boyz - Shootas Nob PK BP Trukk
10 Boyz - Shootas Nob PK BP Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
10 Tankbustas Trukk
Dakkajet - Xtra Supa Shoota, Flyboss
10 Lootas
10 Lootas
Gorkanaut - Grot Riggers, Extra Armour

Just a fun shooting army that has plenty of dakka while it advances.

Try and fit a kff big mek to cover the Gorkanaught. I find it best to run the naughts with other walkers/armor. If he is the only vehicle , he will get focused hard right away.

I run the morkanaught all the time and he does his job great.

Ya I can drop the Weirdboy and fit in a Big Mek w/ KFF.

Want to try it out.

I am flustered with most ork related threads right now.

What I've found about Orks is they are so well balanced, there is no one real strategy that stands out. Each unit has its strength and weaknesses, and it is very difficult to balance. That is also one of their problems: they are so well balanced that specific races stand high above them, and one has to play to their opponents rather than have a fully successful squad. The other major problem with the ork is the variation of things that can and will go wrong. With so many variations (Ex: The Mob Table) it makes games more difficult. I've found factions with lots of variation (Dark Eldar, Chaos) makes them less likely to be a tournament winner.

I play Orks for the flavor, and the RNG, because it's really fun when things go oh so right.

the_scotsman wrote:Many many many ork players I know say that the introduction of Overwatch did in the orks, and they got no buffs in compensation so melee armies are outdated and weak. I then watch these same players charge a mob of naked boyz at an enemy, shoot their sluggas, roll a low charge distance and shake their fist at the sky. What they don't remember is:

-If you fail a charge, remember your new 'ere we go! Rule. This thing is an absolute lifesaver.
-Don't forget to throw your stikkbombs! All ork infantry and most independent characters now have a tad bit more oomph in the form of stikkbombs. Even Gretchins have them, and Trukks with Chukkas! It may only amount to a couple extra wounds, but hey-so does overwatch.
-Your Waaaaagh now allows you to run and charge, use that if you really need distance.

Something to add: If the charge is a close call, simply forgo shooting your sluggas and throwing the stikkbomb. Gunning down a model or two might increase your charge range by a lot and will cost you more than those two models hitting you in combat.

--Big Meks with KFFs are perfect for Trukk wings. When I run speed freaks I put one in a vehicle and stick it in the middle of a group of three vehicles to grant cover to all my transports as they take fire.

The KFF does not bubble out from vehicles anymore and doesn't protect the passengers from explosions, which is the main reason for me to not use it any more. It also it provides invulnerable saves, not cover.

--Warbosses have the answer to your mob rule woes with the big boss pole. You can make your fire magnet boyz squad fearless if the regular nob boss poles aren't good enough.

You can only have a big boss pole if you field a Great Waaagh! Detachment, which means you have to take another elite and troops choice without fearless and a worse mob rule table.

-Gretchins squads have never been more useful. Not only do they still grant their handy cover save, they nullify the overwatch rule if you charge them in first. My green tide list never leaves home without a few units of grots to secure objectives and lead the charge.

Eh. A single kopta can do the job better and costs less. The only reason to bring gretchin is to unlock more CADs.

-Every mob can now take Eavy armor. This is HUGE for da boyz and can make a 30 man blob with a Painboy into an absolute juggernaut. Not only does it make you much more durable getting into combat, it makes you far more likely to win.

That's already true for a mob of boyz without the 'Eavy armor and just the pain boy. Give them a try and save points

Otherwise, good advice

Rismonite wrote:I am flustered with most ork related threads right now.

A painboy in 30 boyz is asking for every str 8 shot and pie plate to place there. It's like a lone battlewagon in a footslog list.

For some reason you seem to think that S8+ pie plates killing 6 point models is a bad thing
A large blast usually hits 4-6 boyz, which cost you 36 points max. What ever is shooting those blasts is a lot more expensive.

A big mek KFF argue ably can't fit enough valueable models in 6 " to warrant the upgrade without one pie plate overwhelming the invulnerable save with wounds.

Keep in mind that non-barrage weapons allocate their wounds to the closest models. If you can keep the front of you unit covered, you'll get the saves, even if models outside the dome are hit. That way a KFF covers a lot more than the 6" bubble while on foot.
Personally I agree though, a painboy usually covers more models than a KFF, and is cheaper. People are heaving great success with their KFFs though, so you can't discount that.

Not everything on the board is S9 AP2 barrage, even if some people act like that

Jidmah, your advice is always excellent. Your knowledge of the rules is first-rate. And your logic is always sound. I learn a lot from your posts and greatly appreciate all your input to this forum.

The Riddle of Steel wrote:
Jidmah, your advice is always excellent. Your knowledge of the rules is first-rate. And your logic is always sound. I learn a lot from your posts and greatly appreciate all your input to this forum.

This is so true...

A person fielding thirty boyz would certainly be fielding a green tide with nothing for high str enemy weapons to shoot otherwise. One HQ (of two) multiplying one block of six point models seems inefficient to me. In fact the HQ slot feels wasted. At least until it's ard boyz with attached KFF and mek with Painboy in CAD spam.. -or- when it becomes the tide in W!G. Even still I feel like there needs to be a priority warboss to ensure some mobility to a tide. This pushes one KFF or painboy out.



The biker star seems like a worthy use of a painboy especially with biker big mek or biker boss attached. With KFF mek you could save nearby trukkz delivering powerklaw.

With enough shooting gits.. like 45 lootas.. I could see KFF lite in the back bubbling the lootas.

A trukk that is in reserves moves on the board a foot and then flats out another foot. A trukk deployed on turn one and glanced to death only made it one foot. Could be worth thinking about... of course the opposite argument is what reserve rolls do to piecemeal an ork list.

 Rismonite wrote:
I am flustered with most ork related threads right now.

A painboy in 30 boyz is asking for every str 8 shot and pie plate to place there. It's like a lone battlewagon in a footslog list.

A big mek KFF argue ably can't fit enough valueable models in 6 " to warrant the upgrade without one pie plate overwhelming the invulnerable save with wounds.

I think it's green tide or severe MSU. I don't have enough board experience to preach it

If the enemy is using their strength 8 (and undoubtedly decent AP value as well) shooting on your blob of 6 point, 6+ infantry... Yeah. You're golden.

FNP doesn't multiply points, it multiplies wounds. 31 wounds times 1.33 is a lot of wounds gained.

31 x 1.33 = about 40... + 10 wounds. 10 x 6 = 60 which is cost of Painboy, so...

Could just have another unit of ten boyz. That's what a painboy in thirty ork boyz is. An HQ slot for ten ork boyz. : / just seems underwhelming.

 Rismonite wrote:
Could just have another unit of ten boyz. That's what a painboy in thirty ork boyz is. An HQ slot for ten ork boyz. : / just seems underwhelming.

From my actual game experience, fnp saves a lot more than 10 boyz per game.

Fnp has saved more than 10 boyz in one turn for me before.

Thats likely because any ork with FnP that lives on will have to be shot at least twice and in that regard I understand why it is more than 10.

But why not tankbustas? To propose an example.

If a squad of 15 Tankbustas can save even five wounds it's already more points of value added to the unit than FnP on boyz.

green tide,

~100 boys with nobs and a warboss, give all/some boyz ard armour.

add in the 3 HQ force org the orks have as most tournaments allow 2 detachments.

add in pain boy or two, and/or weirdboy or two.

enjoy your 4+ save with FNP, hope for teleport power, hammer hand or something...

100 str 6 boys will kill almost anything, with a few PK nobs + warboss it will kill anything...

if it gets the gate power, you are golden...

extra points should go into full squads of tank bustas in trukks probably and MSU grots so you have more units to tie things up that could tie up your tide, and so you have more things to zoom around and take out key targets with.

some normal biker squads as well, really saturate the feild with the tankbusta trukks and bikes on the flanks and you can literally hold the whole table, stop people from DS'ing and moving in general with the tide


win or lose, this list is fun!


wyverns are the antithesis of you however :( at least the armour + FNP helps

I use a standard codex: orks list and I haven't played any super-competitive games.

The list I run is mechanised with multiple battlewagons.

In my humble opinion, based on my limited experience, the argument that warbosses need mega armour or a bike to be effective is based on a flawed basic premise: that turning him into a close combat monster that can take on chapter masters that cost twice as many points is all that matters.

My warboss has a power klaw, cybork body and lucky stikk. He leads a mob of 20 slugga boyz in a battlewagon. The transport, waaagh and 'ere we go rules, and absence of mega armour's speed restriction means that these guys hit combat INSANELY fast, and when they do, they hit with so many ws5 s4 attacks that they usually annihilate whatever they hit in one round of combat without even needing the klaw, and for a very reasonable points cost. Incidentally, I feel this strategy vindicates the humble slugga boy who seems to have fallen out of favour over the last couple of editions.

Orks in general have Ben struggling. I want to see someone post a gt winning list that is ork. I've never even heard of them winning anything even by pure luck.

Yeah, quick tidbits (Some have been said already)

KFF does not extend out from vehicles anymore. It also does not grant cover anymore, but instead and Invulnerable safe. (Much better) and only covers models, not units. So to make the Trukk method work, Morkanaught would work well to get the large bubble, or put the KFF Mek on a Bike and have him tail behind the Trukks (Though a bit of a waste to save the ever cheap and still vulnerable Trukk)

In general, I've had pretty good luck with a large CC oriented army, with the proper Dakka to back it up. The Green Tide formation in particular can be a difficult thing for an enemy to break, especially if you layer on the protection. (Docs, KFF, etc) I've run dry on games over the past few months, but I still advocate for this formation. 4 games thus far, and only one loss due to pure stupidly on my part. It's fun and really nasty.

'Eavy Armor is a minor upgrade. While it's nice to have this for more than one squad, it really doesn't do much for our army in the grand scheme of things. We pay 4 points per model to get it, and even then, we MAY be able to shrug off bolter fire. I don't think I'd ever be putting it on my full squad of 30 unless it was Apoc and I had the extra points. It just costs TOO much. Grots would be better. I'd take the 5+ mobile cover that can shoot and punch for 1 point less per model :p 'Eavy Armor is really only good IF you can get into CC. Again, just use Grots though to soften them up, and your Doc can save the Boyz with the FNP.

@ Rismonite - Let them waste their S8 shots on Boyz. Every shot not sent at your Bikes, Wagons, Trukks, Kopters, etc are all welcome. Most armies have S8 single shot weapons (Plasma, Meltas, Lascannons) which is 1 splatted boy if they hit, instead of potentially a splatted Wagon full of dudes. I'm OK with that.

I think when it comes to 'eavy armour, its use is best when it comes to lower point games in Trukk spam lists since the 4+ save is a lifesaver when it comes to the inevitable trukk explosions and following Mob-Rule head-beatings. In lower point games AP4 weapons aren't in as great in saturation as in larger games which means generally you'll get more mileage out of it against the small arms of the enemy.

 Rismonite wrote:
Thats likely because any ork with FnP that lives on will have to be shot at least twice and in that regard I understand why it is more than 10.

But why not tankbustas? To propose an example.

If a squad of 15 Tankbustas can save even five wounds it's already more points of value added to the unit than FnP on boyz.

Because points are not part of the equation. 10 wounds gained means your opponent needs 10 more unsaved wounds to kill your army, when you multiply those ten wounds by the respective chances of to hit, and to wound, you'll see that killing ten T4 wounds is no trivial task at all. 15 tank bustaz only gain you half of that, but those five wounds you saved probably get another chance of shooting their tank-hunting rokkits, so tank bustaz are a good choice as well. Kommandoz or burnaz, for example, would be a bad place to stick them, because even though you are saving more points than a pain boy put in a boyz mob, you are saving less wounds and less offensive power than the same pain boy in a boyz unit would.

If points were any part of the equation, MANz would be the perfect place to stick them (20 points/wound), but they are not. FNP would add three to five wounds to a unit that only loses offensive power on every other wound and loses little to nothing of their ability to murder stuff in close combat.

At the end of the day, having an additional ten boyz or five tank-bustaz left on the board means your boyz unit is still in fighting form to take on another unit, while it would be down to nob and three boyz otherwise, five tank bustaz are still able to reliably kill a vehicle by melta-bombing it. Five additional kommandoz or burnaz hardly improve their combat ability (they are just boyz, after all) and two manz are just as unstoppable at the end of the game as four - if they haven't been wiped out in the first place.

As for the kff vs fnp for the blob, fnp also helps in mellee and vs flamers + it's cheaper and allows you rerolls with grot orderlies. It stacks with cover/armor.

The thing is that in a regular game, if the opponent shoots ID stuff at cheapo boyz, they've allready earned their points back. And when you face something like a revenant titan with pulsars, i doubt 5++ will make a difference.

KFF ain't too bad on it's own. It's just that FNP is often better. I'd not bother with kff for infantry and try to utilise it with vehicles. Either via a biker KFF/MFF mek hiding behind a wagon or walker wall or a morkanaught with it's enormous base covering enough models to not bother with meks at all.

 koooaei wrote:
As for the kff vs fnp for the blob, fnp also helps in mellee and vs flamers + it's cheaper and allows you rerolls with grot orderlies. It stacks with cover/armor.

The thing is that in a regular game, if the opponent shoots ID stuff at cheapo boyz, they've allready earned their points back. And when you face something like a revenant titan with pulsars, i doubt 5++ will make a difference.

KFF ain't too bad on it's own. It's just that FNP is often better. I'd not bother with kff for infantry and try to utilise it with vehicles. Either via a biker KFF/MFF mek hiding behind a wagon or walker wall or a morkanaught with it's enormous base covering enough models to not bother with meks at all.

You only get to reroll one dice for five points so grot orderlies aren't that good...

Improving your fnp from 1/3 to 5/9 on someone like a boss or painboss himself is well worth 5 pts in my book.