Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey folks i was wondering about the uses of this amazing looking model i just picked one up and im excited to field it.

That thing is one of the coolest looking models in all of 40k imo. Ruleswise its just a dreadnought at twice the points cost with a bunch of upgrades that don't really justify its price. 2x claws looks like the least overcosted option. Deepstrike, try not to mishap and then try to get to grips with something. Or best of all, proxy it as a maulerfiend.

My poor Khorne DE is my unluckiest model, and has yet to do anything significant in three attempts.

That said, I agree Claws and DS are probably the way to go, but you need to ensure there are sufficient threats for your opponent to deal with from turn two to ensure that focusing it down isn't a no brainer - it is durable, but it won't handle an entire army firing at it (albeit on two out of three occasions mine has died, it has got back up.)

I'm also intrigued to try the Tzeentch with either twin Storm Lasers or Butcher Cannon as a fire platform, but have yet to do so.

I'm going to use it as a deep striking fire platform well attempt it anyways give it the Mark of Nurgle

I'm not sure you need to DS them as a fire platform. All of the ranged options have decent range, so really you're only sacrificing a shooting phase by doing so in most cases.

Also, while Nurgle undoubtedly makes an already tough unit even more durable, you're only shooting at BS3 - hence the Tz option allowing you to reroll 1s being the way I would go personally.

Hmm that is true getting to re roll 1s is pretty good I usually run a sorcerer and either run demonology or telepathy for invisibility in trying go make a good chaos list and ally some daemons

I just can't see it as a fire platform. Dedication of T is a tiny upgrade (hitting 58% of shots instead of 50%) but does in fact give you slightly more hits per point. With DoT and dual butcher cannons you are looking at a staggering 270 pts. Compare that to a forge fiend for 175 that has the same guns hitting 50% instead of 58%, one less front and rear armor, trades Unholy Vigor for IWND and saves you 95 points. The costing on the decimator is just mind boggling.

Run it as daemons with daemon of slaanesh for fleet and +3 to run moves, give it dual claws and haul ass torching and assaulting.

Doesn't work I'm afraid. It counts as a Slaaneshi daemon for the purposes of the warp storm table etc, but does not gain the bonuses as a "Daemon Of Slaanesh"

I emailed FW about this, and I know of at least two others that have also, all to the same response.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Doesn't work I'm afraid. It counts as a Slaaneshi daemon for the purposes of the warp storm table etc, but does not gain the bonuses as a "Daemon Of Slaanesh"

I emailed FW about this, and I know of at least two others that have also, all to the same response.

I have the new Lost and the Damned Chaos Vehicles and what not book from Forge World, the rules stated on the Decimator Seige Engine says ;

"Note that a dedicated Decimator counts as a Daemon of the appropriate alignment when used in a Codex : Chaos Daemons army"

So, you could just use them in Codex: Daemons as your standard "Elites" section and they gain their appropriate gods boons being as they are, by rule, Daemons of "X" Of course, for CSM they don't gain the boom, but that is of course what Ally's and unbound are for.

Yeah, it says exactly that in IA:Apocalypse , and it was off the basis of that I emailed FW.

Shame they haven't taken the opportunity to make the wording more clear, but the intention is that it would count as a "Khorne Daemon" but not possess the "Daemon Of Khorne" special rule from the CD Codex.

EDIT

Forgeworld wrote:Hi,
Thank you for your email. Although a Decimator counts as a Daemon of the Appropriate Chaos Power this is only for army choice purposes and does not benefit from any of the rules associated with those daemons.

I know emails aren't considered valid for YMDC, but I know of at least two other people who have received the same response, so I think RAI is pretty clear.

Very strange. I havent found an opponent however that would or has had, told me otherwise, one was actually kind enough to inform me that Daemons of Slaanesh move an extra X inches lol But I guess this would be one of those things to talk to your opponent about before hand.

I read it as you did at first, it was only someone disagreeing in a discussion here that lead me to take it further. It does make them ridiculous (or should that be "worth their points?") if you apply the Daemon Of rules on top of their own God specific stuff though..

"counting as a daemon of X" is pretty clear wording to me. Its more weird that their emails contradict that. Whats even weirder is the email you quote. 'Army choice purposes' what is that? "Does not benefit from any rules associated with those daemons" sounds like it deletes the sentence entirely as they are telling you to ignore the rules from being an aligned daemon.

Yeah, it is a distinction between "counts as daemon of X" and counts as "daemon of X" One has a particular rule attached to it, the other only matters for things like hatred and results on the Warp Storm Table.

You must have a daemon of character of the same alignment in order to purchase the upgrades, so I guess if you already have one Nurgle Decimator Engine, that allows you to have another one in some horrible chicken/egg list building circle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Link to a post from a user who got the same response when I started a thread in this subject some months back...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602775.page#6979158

Had to go and check my books now that you brought that up, definitely not very clear, though it would seem odd that it could gain lots of lovely special rules by being in your daemons detachment rather than marines. Much clearer on things like the titans where it definitely isn't a 'daemon of X' but just counts as one for the purposes of hatred etc.

Got mine back when they were released and they weren't quite as expensive, assumed there would be a points drop even back then, but it's seen nothing but increases for some crazy reason. They're massively overcosted for the killing power they bring, and resilience only goes so far.

I've also talked to and emailed Forgeworld and I got the same answer which I expected but which some of you can't comprehend. It isn't a Daemon of X, if it were they wouldn't use that wording, they would just say it is a Daemon of X. When it's "counts as", I guess you can think of it as all the usual things apply except the direct feats which are stated under the Daemon of X headlines. That means that Daemons of the "opposite" god hates it and it's affected by the Storm of Chaos table (can't remember the right name for the table) as if it were a Daemon of X.

It's not that we don't comprehend the email response. Its that it goes against what is written and isn't in a FAQ. The phrase 'counts as' appears all over the game and always is synonymous with 'is' for rules purposes. For example 'A pistol counts as a close combat weapon' and 'a model who only pivots during the movement phase counts as stationary'. There's no exceptions inherent in the phrase 'counts as'. So when it says 'counts as a daemon of X' it can only mean to treat it as a daemon of X for all rules purposes. From their email responses this seems not what they intended, but it is in fact what is written.

I was looking at IA13 last night (so this is from memory) but:

In the Warhound Titan rules it says Gains the Daemon USR and gains X,Y,Z and counts as a daemon aligned with Slaanesh (or Khorne etc)

I believe the decimator already has Daemon USR and his entry has a similar wording under the upgrade 'dedication to Khorne' in which it lists some effects it gives you and then says counts as "being aligned with X".

If they wanted it to be a Daemon of X they would say "Counts as a Demon of Khorne" not "Counts as a daemon aligned with Khorne* - see codex daemons"

Every time they reference a special rule (from a codex), they have an asterisk next to it and a footnote that points you to the codex. Without the footnote its pretty clear they didn't intend to confer those additional special rules (although it saddens me greatly).

You are right that it has the daemon usr and has dedication of X, but you are misremembering the wording slightly. It does not say 'counts as being aligned with X," It has the note which is verbatim: "Note that a dedicated Decimator counts as a daemon of the appropriate alignment when used in a Codex: Chaos Daemons army."

They could give you four lines stating 'if dedicated to khorne counts as daemon of khorne, if dedicated to nurgle counts as daemon of nurgle... etc' but instead its reduced into 'counts as daemon of X' where X is 'daemon of appropriate alignment'. Now if they wanted daemon of X to only count for certain things and not others they'd have to spell it out. But as they didn't, well... it is what is, an oversight. The sad part is that their intent has been shared in emails to individuals rather than just uploading a pdf faq.

Or adjusting the content for IA13, as the wording is the same as in IA:Apoc