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Skullcrushers of Khorne 195 points
WS:5 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:5 A:4 Ld:9 Sv:3+/4++
Skullreaver
WS:6 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:5 A:5 Ld:9 Sv:3+/4++
Unit Composition: 2 Skullcrushers, 1 Skullreaver
Unit Type: Cavalry
Special Rules: Daemon of Khorne, Fearless, Fear, Murderous Charge, Rending, Skilled Rider, Feel No Pain (6+)
Wargear: Chain Axe, Power Armor, Juggernaut of Khorne, Frag Grenades, Combat Shield, Bolt Pistol.
-Combat Shield: Adds +1 to invulnerable save.
-Skilled Rider: Skullcrushers have +2 to sweeping advance rolls.
-Murderous Charge: Skullcrushers have the rage USR, and Decapitation Strike (Instant Death on a 6s to wound) on the charge.
Options
- May take up to 5 additional Skullcrushers for 60 points a piece.
- May replace Bolt Pistol with Shrapnel Pistol (S:4 AP:- Assault 4 12" ) for 10 points a piece.
- May replace Chain Axe with Chain Halberd (S:+1, AP:3, Fleshbane, Melee, Two Handed) for 15 points a piece.
- May replace Chain axe with Teeth of Khorne (S:+3 AP:3, +1 to FNP, Melee, Two Handed) for 30 points a piece.
Edits
-Traitors don't have Storm Shields.
-Strength on Teeth of Khorne, and Chain Halberd reduced by 1.
-Added squad Sergeant (Skullreaver)
-Teeth of Terra and Chain Halberd made Two handed. No more bending a Reaver Titan over backwards before it can react.
-Minus 1 wound. Points reduced to 60. Teeth of Khorne made available to all squad members.

Why WS6? Terminators aren't, Berzerkers aren't, Bloodcrushers aren't, why are Skullcrushers?

These guys look a little over the top for the basic models. Would it not be better for them to start out standard (Chain Axe, Bolt Pistol and the one or two special rules) then upgrade them to depend on how many points you want to spend?

Think along the lines of Thunderwolf Cavalry, look them up, look what they gain over regular wolves for how many points, and how much they pay for what special weapons. Then emulate it with as little deviation as possible, only adding flavor rather then power. You don't like wolf claws? Replace them with a Helberd.

When you already have something to work off, it only makes sense to make that your starting point. Because when you start from scratch it ends up, well, looking like this. Too many unique things for a single unit that no one will want to face them.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
These guys look a little over the top for the basic models. Would it not be better for them to start out standard (Chain Axe, Bolt Pistol and the one or two special rules) then upgrade them to depend on how many points you want to spend?

Think along the lines of Thunderwolf Cavalry, look them up, look what they gain over regular wolves for how many points, and how much they pay for what special weapons. Then emulate it with as little deviation as possible, only adding flavor rather then power. You don't like wolf claws? Replace them with a Helberd.

When you already have something to work off, it only makes sense to make that your starting point. Because when you start from scratch it ends up, well, looking like this. Too many unique things for a single unit that no one will want to face them.

I want to differentiate these from thunderwolf cavalry by having them be more Khorne ( chain weapons, rage, decapitation, blood drawing)
But yeah you're right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Why WS6? Terminators aren't, Berzerkers aren't, Bloodcrushers aren't, why are Skullcrushers?

My mistake. I thought Bloodcrushers were WS:6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shouldn't these have 3 wounds? Christ I'm asking for permission.
A Juggernaut gives a blood letter +2 wounds, +2 attacks, +1 Strength, +1 Toughness.

I'd keep them as they are, they seem good from where i sit rules wise save for a tweak with the special weapons. When comparing them to Bloodcrushers remember these guys get a 4+ invul and a 3+ save, which is much better. For example Shred would work better on the Chain Helberd, shred is just much more iconic of the chain weapon family and makes more sense lore wise. Still hell'a powerful due to being str 7, i doubt Fleshbane is needed. Also add two handed, you shouldn't get an extra attack for the Pistol.

I am not sure how you priced the unit though, 200pts for 3 is 66pts per model but you have priced them at 45. I would price them at 60pts each base, but the squad should cost 190pts for 3. Then you include a Sargent (Skullreaver?) with either an extra point in Ws or A, just because this is the norm for chaos stuff.

Alex

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'd keep them as they are, they seem good from where i sit rules wise save for a tweak with the special weapons. When comparing them to Bloodcrushers remember these guys get a 4+ invul and a 3+ save, which is much better. For example Shred would work better on the Chain Helberd, shred is just much more iconic of the chain weapon family and makes more sense lore wise. Still hell'a powerful due to being str 7, i doubt Fleshbane is needed. Also add two handed, you shouldn't get an extra attack for the Pistol.

I am not sure how you priced the unit though, 200pts for 3 is 66pts per model but you have priced them at 45. I would price them at 60pts each base, but the squad should cost 190pts for 3. Then you include a Sargent (Skullreaver?) with either an extra point in Ws or A, just because this is the norm for chaos stuff.

Alex

It's a mounted melee weapon. It wouldn't make sense as a two handed weapon. But with the storm shield there shouldn't be a points difference.
They're already gonna steam roll anything they assault with a max of 56 S:9 attacks on the charge at initiative. For 500+ points though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strength and attacks take a nerfing. Wounds become in line with Bloodcrushers. Points boosted to 75 points a pop.

If you want something balanced and that fits into the game better, you're probably a lot better off looking at what the Juggernaut of Khorne gives to a Chaos Lord in the Chaos Space Marines codex and start from there. It gives +! wound, toughness, and attack, and makes them cavalry, and does not give them the daemon special rule.

Start from there, assuming they're Khorne Berserkers and leave them with basic equipment to start with to keep them cheap, PA, bolt pistol, chain axe, and frag and krak grenades. Give them access to some alternate weapon loadouts at appropriate prices and I think it'd be a much better unit. I think that you're giving them too many special rules, honestly. Even if the points price is appropriate I think it's just too much on one unit. I'd keep the special rules from the Berserkers; fearless, furious charge, and mark of khorne, maybe throw in fear and the rule that gives them the bonus to sweeping advances, which I rather like.

You're trying too hard to make this unit undefeatable in melee. If these guys do make it into melee, they should wreck face, but not quite that hard, and it should be possible to kill them before they get there if the enemy focuses on them. As it stands right now they're sitting at a 3 tough 5 3+, 4++ with the option to turn that into a 3++, that moves twelve inches a turn base. They might take one round of shooting before charging your line and wiping it out before they ever get to hit back.

Deadawake1347 wrote:
If you want something balanced and that fits into the game better, you're probably a lot better off looking at what the Juggernaut of Khorne gives to a Chaos Lord in the Chaos Space Marines codex and start from there. It gives +! wound, toughness, and attack, and makes them cavalry, and does not give them the daemon special rule.

Start from there, assuming they're Khorne Berserkers and leave them with basic equipment to start with to keep them cheap, PA, bolt pistol, chain axe, and frag and krak grenades. Give them access to some alternate weapon loadouts at appropriate prices and I think it'd be a much better unit. I think that you're giving them too many special rules, honestly. Even if the points price is appropriate I think it's just too much on one unit. I'd keep the special rules from the Berserkers; fearless, furious charge, and mark of khorne, maybe throw in fear and the rule that gives them the bonus to sweeping advances, which I rather like.

You're trying too hard to make this unit undefeatable in melee. If these guys do make it into melee, they should wreck face, but not quite that hard, and it should be possible to kill them before they get there if the enemy focuses on them. As it stands right now they're sitting at a 3 tough 5 3+, 4++ with the option to turn that into a 3++, that moves twelve inches a turn base. They might take one round of shooting before charging your line and wiping it out before they ever get to hit back.

They can't have a 3++. They don't have storm shields.
They do have base Berserker load out to start.
Possible to kill? Like Psychic Maelstrom ? Or a Demolisher Cannon? Or massed medium strength low ap shooting. You're still looking at 24 wounds on a 600 point unit. They're an enourmous target and easy to bring fmdown for their points.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:
If you want something balanced and that fits into the game better, you're probably a lot better off looking at what the Juggernaut of Khorne gives to a Chaos Lord in the Chaos Space Marines codex and start from there. It gives +! wound, toughness, and attack, and makes them cavalry, and does not give them the daemon special rule.

Start from there, assuming they're Khorne Berserkers and leave them with basic equipment to start with to keep them cheap, PA, bolt pistol, chain axe, and frag and krak grenades. Give them access to some alternate weapon loadouts at appropriate prices and I think it'd be a much better unit. I think that you're giving them too many special rules, honestly. Even if the points price is appropriate I think it's just too much on one unit. I'd keep the special rules from the Berserkers; fearless, furious charge, and mark of khorne, maybe throw in fear and the rule that gives them the bonus to sweeping advances, which I rather like.

You're trying too hard to make this unit undefeatable in melee. If these guys do make it into melee, they should wreck face, but not quite that hard, and it should be possible to kill them before they get there if the enemy focuses on them. As it stands right now they're sitting at a 3 tough 5 3+, 4++ with the option to turn that into a 3++, that moves twelve inches a turn base. They might take one round of shooting before charging your line and wiping it out before they ever get to hit back.

They can't have a 3++. They don't have storm shields.
They do have base Berserker load out to start.
Possible to kill? Like Psychic Maelstrom ? Or a Demolisher Cannon? Or massed medium strength low ap shooting. You're still looking at 24 wounds on a 600 point unit. They're an enourmous target and easy to bring fmdown for their points.

Sorry, I didn't noticed that you removed the storm shields. Still, a 3+, 4++ on a toughness five three wound model is durable as hell. And as I said your opponent is likely to only get one round of shooting at them before they absolutely destroy whatever they get into combat with. I'm honestly not sure why they're initiative five other than to go before most other units, as Berserkers at initiative four. And they don't start out with a Berserker loadout, they start with a chainsword and pay eight points for a chainaxe.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:
If you want something balanced and that fits into the game better, you're probably a lot better off looking at what the Juggernaut of Khorne gives to a Chaos Lord in the Chaos Space Marines codex and start from there. It gives +! wound, toughness, and attack, and makes them cavalry, and does not give them the daemon special rule.

Start from there, assuming they're Khorne Berserkers and leave them with basic equipment to start with to keep them cheap, PA, bolt pistol, chain axe, and frag and krak grenades. Give them access to some alternate weapon loadouts at appropriate prices and I think it'd be a much better unit. I think that you're giving them too many special rules, honestly. Even if the points price is appropriate I think it's just too much on one unit. I'd keep the special rules from the Berserkers; fearless, furious charge, and mark of khorne, maybe throw in fear and the rule that gives them the bonus to sweeping advances, which I rather like.

You're trying too hard to make this unit undefeatable in melee. If these guys do make it into melee, they should wreck face, but not quite that hard, and it should be possible to kill them before they get there if the enemy focuses on them. As it stands right now they're sitting at a 3 tough 5 3+, 4++ with the option to turn that into a 3++, that moves twelve inches a turn base. They might take one round of shooting before charging your line and wiping it out before they ever get to hit back.

They can't have a 3++. They don't have storm shields.
They do have base Berserker load out to start.
Possible to kill? Like Psychic Maelstrom ? Or a Demolisher Cannon? Or massed medium strength low ap shooting. You're still looking at 24 wounds on a 600 point unit. They're an enourmous target and easy to bring fmdown for their points.

Sorry, I didn't noticed that you removed the storm shields. Still, a 3+, 4++ on a toughness five three wound model is durable as hell. And as I said your opponent is likely to only get one round of shooting at them before they absolutely destroy whatever they get into combat with. I'm honestly not sure why they're initiative five other than to go before most other units, as Berserkers at initiative four. And they don't start out with a Berserker loadout, they start with a chainsword and pay eight points for a chainaxe.

I reduced wounds by 1.