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Ok,  How would you all interpret this conflict.

I have a Demon Prince with Demonic Flight and a Berserker Glaive.  Because of the Demonic flight the rule under Blood Frenzy says you don't get to roll for Blood Frenzy.  However the Berserker Glaive says Blood Frenzy automatically grips the bearer without having to roll.   So should my Demon Prince Blood Frenzy automatically, or not at all?

Beserker glaive says you cannot have any other form of movement. So the above combo is illegal.

Unless it is something that has been changed since I bought my codex,  it just says you can't have a Steed with the Berserker Glaive

Ahoj!
Yes, things have changed. In newer printings of the codex, the wording of the Mark of Khorne is changed. Also, the bearer of the Glaive is now forbidden to use any special movement modes.
And it was FAQed, too.
Borys

What FAQ is that Borys?

How insane would it be if the lord could ride a Juggernaught with a Glaive without the D. Stature of course. It makes sense balance wise to not allow it but it would be cool.

I would have no problem with my opponent playing a berzerker glaive with a juggernaught. While juggs are cool they do not allow the rider to move as cavalry nor do they confer demonic speed. While you do get demonic strength, mutation and essence, you still move at the same speed as infantry.

Darrian

Someone pointed me to an official FAQ for the Chaos Space Marine Codex that says if you have something that gives you a movement bonus then you do not get the Blood Frenzy movement Bonus.  It doesn't say you can't take the Berserker Glaive however.

Find a copy of the 2nd or 3rd printing (it'll say on the first page which it is), and check out the wording on the berserker glaive.

I cannot remember what FAQ version it was but I know I have read it. My friend tried the combo and would continue to do so until it was proven illegal so we had to search but I remember finding it because tha prince is no more.

I got a version about 6 months ago that my game store had to Order from GW that ended up being second printing. Trying to track down a copy of third printing, but no luck so far

Codex: Wargear has all the updated wargear entries includin the Berserker Glaive clarification as well

Posted By Darrian13 on 04/21/2006 12:03 PM
I would have no problem with my opponent playing a berzerker glaive with a juggernaught. While juggs are cool they do not allow the rider to move as cavalry nor do they confer demonic speed. While you do get demonic strength, mutation and essence, you still move at the same speed as infantry.

Darrian

 

  First line of the entry for the Juggernaught of Khorne: "Steed."   Steeds move as cavalry and get all the special movement that it infers.

Posted by the_trooper on 05/01/2006 10:03 AM
First line of the entry for the Juggernaught of Khorne: "Steed." Steeds move as cavalry and get all the special movement that it infers.

Funny then that the description of 'Steed' in the Chaos Space Marine Armoury makes no mention of giving the model an alternative mode of movement. Nor does the Warhammer 40,000 4th edition rulebook ever state that models with the 'Steed' special rule move as cavalry.

It seems to me that there are no rules whatsoever to back up your claims that a Juggernaut of Khorne moves as cavalry.

I'll look it up when I get home, since I do not have the general 40k rule book here. Where as it says steed specifically, makes it up for question. I know it states all the other daemonic abilities granted. Why not just say mount? Steed makes the rules murky.

It says 'Steed' because steeds have very specific rules in the Chaos Space Marine Armoury whereas 'Mounts' do not.

Secondly, the use of the term 'Steed' does NOT make the rules murky. The only place the term 'Steed' is ever defined is in the Chaos Space Marine Armoury where it makes no mention of moving as cavalry. On top of that, the Beasts & Cavalry rules on page 57 of the Warhammer 40,000 4th edition rulebook never one uses the word 'steed' in the entire section.

What are the rules in the CSM Armory for Steed?

Ahoj!
From CSM FAQ:
Although Juggernauts, Disks of Tzeentch,
and Steeds of Slaanesh are Daemonic
steeds, they use their own special rules,
not the rules for Daemonic Steeds.

Borys

Steeds move as cavalry and get all the special movement that it infers.

The rules imply something. We infer something from the rules. But the rules don't infer.

Yeah, I found out the hard way that juggernats DO NOT grant any sort of movement bonus. My poor Khornate lieutenant was stuck out in the open and quickly murdered. So sad.

Posted By Borys on 05/01/2006 11:47 AM
Ahoj!
From CSM FAQ:
Although Juggernauts, Disks of Tzeentch,
and Steeds of Slaanesh are Daemonic
steeds, they use their own special rules,
not the rules for Daemonic Steeds.

Borys

 

Thank you, Borys, for the actual explanation besides "BLARG, BECAUSE!" obviously there were some odd implications that GW even thought needed clarification.

i dont see anywhere in the faq about using demonic speed with a beserker glaive. If it does can somebody actually tell me where, what page libe etc rather than i read it somewhere or somebdoy showed me.

The Third Printing of the Chaos Dex has all this stuff already updated in it. Hence there is no more need for an FAQ, just buy a new book. On the bottom of the first page it should say THIRD PRINTING. If it says nothing, then its a first printing, if it says Second Printing, its a second printing.

It's also, as someone pointed out earlier, updated in the Wargear book.

We found it in the third printing, BUT I now think that GW no longer cares about us customers as I they were still shipping out second printing books after the third printing went to press, and yet they provide us no means of seeing what changes have been made without buying the new Codex. They should provide us with something that tells us the minor changes they have made to each Codex. If alot of us complain maybe they will start doing something about it.

screw that i am not wasting money on a new codex when i already have one.. When i play if anybody argues I will point to the latest Faq,s and say tough luck mate. Dont blame me blame GW. I will just go by my codex. For example if i did not have access to internet and these forums how would i know about 3rd printing #etc??

No offense Beef, but thats a little bit of a poor attitude there. Play that way if you want, but the moment that your opponent whips out the 3rd printing, be prepared to eat your hat.

Yes, it sucks, but you no longer have the current rules for your army. While I definitely don't think that you should have to go out and buy a new printing of the same edition of the codex, I'm sure that someone will be more than happy to give you a list of the changes for free (I'd be happy to do it, but my codex is at home and I don't have the 1st or 2nd printings to compare it to). Heck, you can probably even just go to your FLGS and copy the changed items, its not much.

We should really have a sticky in this forum with such a list anyway. Hint Hint

Here is the relevant bit about the Glaive + Movement. Simply print this out and stick it in your codex. If this is incorrect, please someone correct me as this is cut-and-paste from the unofficial FAQ (yes its unofficial, but this is not a ruling, its simple factual information.)

The Book of Khorne
? Note that the Third reprinting prevents models with a Berzerker
Glaive using any special movement mode. This includes daemonic speed,
daemonic flight and Chaos Marine Bikes; nor can they ride a Steed.

We should really have a sticky in this forum with such a list anyway. Hint Hint

Yeah... hey, maybe someone could compile a list of all the codex changes...

@Beef. Your position is fine if you are playing with your buddies, but once you show up at an RTT and try that excuse, you are gonna get laughed out of the RTT due to an illegal list.

Perfect example right there, I build my army based on the book I bought a couple months ago, then show up at a tournament, and I am told that my army isn't legal anymore because GW decided to change some rules in a new printing of a book. If I was one of those players without internet access (I do know a few of them), I would be royally pissed at GW.

I am not happy with GW about this whole changing Codex without posting anything anywhere about the changes. The only reason I found out there was a new version and the army I had been playing was illegal was because I wasn't sure how somethings worked together and asked on here, and someone told me the rules had changed. I searched the GW for days looking for errata and FAQ's about the Chaos army and found nothing to indicate any of this. I even talked with one of GW's customer support people and they don't have a means of looking up the changes between one printing and the next. The more complaints we make about things like this the more likely GW will do something to fix it.