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I really like Battlesuits, and am considering picking some up. I was wondering what the best loadout would be if I had 3 squads of 3 in a TAC list (the rest of the list has fire warriors, pathfinders, commander, bomber, and broadside). If I want to sell out on Battlesuits is the farsight supplement worth it?

I would also be interested in hearing this answer.

I do plan on magnetizing my battlesuits, but it is good to know what the "go to" load-out is.

It depends, dual plasma are great (with markerlight support) against 2/3+ armour, but missile pods are a generic favourite as they are essentially autocannons (which are great)

Definitely magnetise. It starts slow but its simple and once you have a few magnets in place doing the others becomes quick and easy. Personally I tend to take dual plaster or plasma missile. Dual plasma annihilates heavy infantry/elites with ease. At rapid fire range you have 12 Str6 Ap2 Shots that should by rights have at least BS4 if not BS5 and ignores cover, ouch. Also surprisingly affective against aircraft. Plasma missile while sacrificing the AP2 hail of death does net you greater range and the ability to threaten light vehicles with that S7. With a marker or two also effective vs aircraft at longer ranges should you not have a skyray (which btw are pretty great).

Dual missile is a great light vehicle hunter/Anti aircraft loadout. Personally I find markerlight support is better for going for the AA role as at 60pts for the unit velocity trackers are very pricey for a niche role, and dedicated AA is better done by the skyray, velocity tracker riptide, or broadsides

Other combos include:

Plasma/fusion blaster for anti heavy infatntry/vehicle, good for killing space marine characters due to S8 AP1

Double fusion for deep striking vehicle hunters (two blasters is normally better than 1 twin linked one imo)

Plasma/burst cannon for infantry killing

I wouldn't bother with double burst cannons, although at first glance 24 Str5 shots looks appealing, you are looking at something fire warriors can do at a longer range and this way is taking up an elites choice. However drone controllers and gundrone spam combined with it can give you a seriously high firepower output at the 18" mark

Dual flamer is a "cheap and nasty" one, risky as you need to get close and if you dont position carefully/wipe out what you want to kill youre probably fooked. But 6 flamer templates is a hefty amount of hits if done right.

Missile Pods are your workhorse
Plasma vs Marines/MCs
Melta vs vehicles
Flamers vs hordes (this work best with Teleport Homer from Tetras)

It's better to use 2 similar weapons than 2 different ones on a suit

Personal favorite is the PLasma/ Burstcannon (Bladestorm) as it eats both horde and SS/TH. It is pretty much dangerous against anything with a wound value.

Firestorms are great in smaller point games, while you lose some volume you gain the ability to demolish HPs as well as Wounds.

FE lists enjoy the dual Burstcannon suits since they often lack firewarriors for volume S5.

With a squad of 3 is it best to give every guy the same stuff?

For a three man crisis team, I almost always have two of them with 2x plasma rifles and the last one with 2x fusion blasters and a target lock, and deep striking them. This gives them a strong punch vs heavy infanty or MC and can usually pop a tank at time same time.

If you want to make them more effective, give the plasma guys target locks and load them down with drones. Then, add a Buffmander with drones and a drone controller. This will give you maximum striking vs normal infantry from the BS5 gun drones so you can threaten three targets at once.

Am I the only one that doesn't get the appeal of Plasma Rifles? Imperial armies take Plasma Guns instead of Melta Guns because they lose only a single point of strength, but gain either twice the shots or twice the range. Fusion Blasters have longer range already, and give up more strength for the extra shots.

Against a standard T6 monstrous creature, even a double-tapping plasma rifle does only 20% more damage than a fusion blaster. They have an advantage against lower toughness models, but those are susceptible to burst cannons, anyway. Moreover, the burst cannons won't care when the target has a cover or invuln save to protect from AP2 weapons.

I feel Plasma Rifles are best used in a Farsight Bomb, where they can benefit from USRs like Ignore Cover and Monster Hunter. Rerolls to wound will help the Plasma Rifles make up the difference against Fusion Rifles, and ignoring cover makes their AP2 more valuable against infantry. The pinpoint deep strike helps achieve double-tap range, as well.

Absent these elements, Fusion Blasters are just as effective in the Monster-Hunting role. I just don't see a compelling reason to give up the versatility offered by a Fusion Gun -- especially when they're no more expensive.


Plasma Gun: S7 AP2 - Rapid-fire 24"
Melta Gun: S8 AP1 - Assault 12"

Plasma Rifles: S6 AP2 - Rapid-fire 24"
Fusion Blaster: S8 AP1 - Assault 18"

Uh, you get to shoot twice with Plasma Rifles. And they're AP2. I think that's why people like them. They're for wiping out squads of MEQ and TEQ.

Corollax wrote:
Am I the only one that doesn't get the appeal of Plasma Rifles? Imperial armies take Plasma Guns instead of Melta Guns because they lose only a single point of strength, but gain either twice the shots or twice the range. Fusion Blasters have longer range already, and give up more strength for the extra shots.

Against a standard T6 monstrous creature, even a double-tapping plasma rifle does only 20% more damage than a fusion blaster. They have an advantage against lower toughness models, but those are susceptible to burst cannons, anyway. Moreover, the burst cannons won't care when the target has a cover or invuln save to protect from AP2 weapons.

I feel Plasma Rifles are best used in a Farsight Bomb, where they can benefit from USRs like Ignore Cover and Monster Hunter. Rerolls to wound will help the Plasma Rifles make up the difference against Fusion Rifles, and ignoring cover makes their AP2 more valuable against infantry. The pinpoint deep strike helps achieve double-tap range, as well.

Absent these elements, Fusion Blasters are just as effective in the Monster-Hunting role. I just don't see a compelling reason to give up the versatility offered by a Fusion Gun -- especially when they're no more expensive.


Plasma Gun: S7 AP2 - Rapid-fire 24"
Melta Gun: S8 AP1 - Assault 12"

Plasma Rifles: S6 AP2 - Rapid-fire 24"
Fusion Blaster: S8 AP1 - Assault 18"

Melta outperforms plasma in in the 12-18" range band against most targets. Plasma outperforms melta against most targets in the 0-12" and 18-24" bands.
The single most common profile across all armies is the power armoured marine; T4 Sv3+. Plasma is designed to kill marines. It does that better than fusion by getting more shots and/or longer range. Similarly against monstrous creatures - plasma again does better if you are in double-tap range: 2 shots with 3/6 chance to wound vs 1 shot with 5/6 chance.


@OP The best loadout depends on what you are lacking in the rest of your force. Think about the weapon and if you already have its equivalent elsewhere in your force.
Suits can bring: Burst Cannon, Flamer, Plasma, Missile, Fusion
Burst Cannon firepower can be found on pretty much all of our infantry, vehicles, drones. If you are infantry heavy, don't bring BC's.
Smart Missile Systems are basically the equivalent of flamers, and you can get those on all vehicles, Riptides and Broadsides. On the other hand, if the target is not in cover or has a 4+ armour save, these may as well be BC's, so again if you have a lot of infantry you can probably leave these at home.
Plasma firepower can come from Riptides. Ionheads kind of, and Fusion is mostly like plasma. This is why Plasma suits are common - they bring efficient access to firepower that isn't availbable in many other places.
Missiles come on Broadsides, and also a smattering of other Ion weaponry. If you have a squad of broadsides and are trying to kit out your first Crisis squad, go for something else.
Fusion - equivalents from Riptides, Stealth Suits, Piranhas, Longstrike.


Look at your army and work out which weapons you already have, and which you need more of.
A 'little bit of everything' Tau army, and/or a Tau gunline, probably benefits the most from Plasma.
A triptide army probably wants a Missile squad and a Burst Cannon squad before it goes for more plasma or fusion.

Similarly against monstrous creatures - plasma again does better if you are in double-tap range: 2 shots with 3/6 chance to wound vs 1 shot with 5/6 chance.

Yes. 20% better, as I stated. But if you're outside of double-tap range or your target has higher toughness, this advantage disappears. Likewise, Plasma will do more damage against marines than Burst Cannons...until they take cover.

It's not sufficient that plasma be better than my Fusion Blasters or Burst Cannons. They have to be a significant enough improvement to justify taking them over the wider target profile that these two weapons bring. And without buffs, they aren't.

Magnets are the best choice so you can change for who you are fighting. If that's not possible then plas/missile pod is a good all rounder, can wipe out 2+ squads, destroy light armour and generally be a pain in the butt.

If I was playing a horde though.. Burst cannons and a flamer or two!

Don't underestimate Double Burst Cannons. Bump those suckers up to BS5 with a couple of marker lights and you will be wiping MEQ, hordes, and even giving TEQ a scare. Even scarier with a few gun drones and a controller. I run hound rush against my buddies Tau all the time and if it weren't for that unit, I would run over his lines virtually uncontested every time. They do some work.

to OP:

If you want to run 3x 3 Crisis Suits, Farsight Enclave is the way to go, as all those suits will be scoring. Here's what I would run:

3 x 2 missile pods (goodies if you'd like)
3 x 2 burst cannons w/ gun drones and drone controller
2 x 2 fusion w/ target locks
1 x 2 fusion

If you want you can make a mini deathstar out of the missile suits by adding marker drones, target locks and allying with Tau Empire to get Buffmander with iridium, drone controller, and all the TL, ignores cover stuff. It's a nasty little unit. Add a farsight commander with 2 more missile pods and you're golden.

Corollax wrote:

Similarly against monstrous creatures - plasma again does better if you are in double-tap range: 2 shots with 3/6 chance to wound vs 1 shot with 5/6 chance.

Yes. 20% better, as I stated. But if you're outside of double-tap range or your target has higher toughness, this advantage disappears. Likewise, Plasma will do more damage against marines than Burst Cannons...until they take cover.

It's not sufficient that plasma be better than my Fusion Blasters or Burst Cannons. They have to be a significant enough improvement to justify taking them over the wider target profile that these two weapons bring. And without buffs, they aren't.

So plasma are better than BC against marines. Except if the marines are in 4+ or better cover. Unless they have 2+ saves not 3+. Unless they are in 3+ or better cover. Unless you spend (exactly) 2 markerlights. Unless it is invulnerables, not cover.... etc etc etc

Or perhaps your entire point was to just stand around threateningly with plasma suits and force your opponent to take cover, without actually killing them! Force your opponent to dance to your tune by creating a dead-zone on the board. Bust Cannons might be better than Plasma against marines in 3+ cover but that isn't really saying much because you're using both weapons wrong.

I'd say for a Tau army with 3 or more units with pulse/sms weapons, that Burst Cannon are probably not be best use of Crisis Suits, simply because you have other units that can provide the S5AP5 firepower role, but comparatively few that can provide AP2.

Compared to Fusions.. its pretty much the same comparison in reverse. With the right combinations of range/cover/toughness you can make either of the weapons 'better' than they other. But really, your fusions should be out popping vehicles rather than killing 3 Tac marines every turn.

A lot of the time it isn't an either/or question: its both. I'd take plasmas AND fusions AND missiles in 3 crisis squads, and get my S5AP5 firepower from firewarriors and devilfish.

Your real all-around workhorse weapon is the Missile Pod. With volume of fire, strength, range, and maneuverability to get in to vehicle side arcs, and they don't 'pay extra' for AP2 they might not get to use, Missile Pods are the ones that come out favourably in any comparison with cover/invulnerables.


@OP.
Suits are better run with 2 of the same weapon. You can get versatility by running 2 of each, but generally it would be better in that case to just run 2 units with specialised weapons instead.
If you want to go suit heavy, go farsight. 3x3 suits takes up all your elite slots otherwise: which you want to save for Riptides if possible. I'd run 1 squad fusion, 1 squad plasma, 1 squad missiles. Even better, you could split the Fusion squad in to 3 squads of 1 to really spread out the pain.

BS3 Crisis vs MCs (T6 3+)

up to 12":
6 Plasma Rifles: 3 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 2.5 unsaved wounds

12.1-18":
6 Plasma Rifles: 1.5 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 2.5 unsaved wounds

18.1-24":
6 Plasma Rifles: 1.5 unsaved wounds

Now, when we increase BS to 4...

up to 12":
6 Plasma Rifles: 4 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 3.3 unsaved wounds

12.1-18":
6 Plasma Rifles: 2 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 3.3 unsaved wounds

18.1-24":
6 Plasma Rifles: 2 unsaved wounds

and BS5...

up to 12"
6 Plasma Rifles: 5 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 4.167 unsaved wounds

12.1-18":
6 Plasma Rifles: 2.5 unsaved wounds
6 Fusion Blasters: 4.167 unsaved wounds

18.1-24":
6 Plasma Rifles: 2.5 unsaved wounds

So, unless you have good DS support (Tetras or other Teleport Homer user), FB seems more reliable

You do realise that +1 BS is going to affect both guns equally, right?

I could equally well say: stick with plasma, because if you are in the 18-24" range band you reliably do more damage (ie, more than 0 damage) with plasma: there is no range band where fusion does damage but plasma does not.

Really the fact that we're discussing this at all shows that the weapons are all pretty well balanced: all of them have their niches, and the things they do ok but not great at. Choose the ones that compliment the rest of your army against your local meta.

 astro_nomicon wrote:


3 x 2 missile pods (goodies if you'd like)
3 x 2 burst cannons w/ gun drones and drone controller
2 x 2 fusion w/ target locks
1 x 2 fusion

If you want you can make a mini deathstar out of the missile suits by adding marker drones, target locks and allying with Tau Empire to get Buffmander with iridium, drone controller, and all the TL, ignores cover stuff. It's a nasty little unit. Add a farsight commander with 2 more missile pods and you're golden.

Sounds good... It just seems people would recommend plasma instead of burst cannons...

Well to me it looks like they are stuck debating whether fusion or plasma is better and at what range and ignoring burst cannons entirely, which would be a mistake

All jest aside, they really are an effective weapon when utilised properly, as with all Battlesuit weapons. Just comes down to your preference/meta. I find that the burst cannons fit well in most tau lists, because they have no problem murderizing MEQ and TEQ and might struggle with horde a little bit.

I tried to bring up burst cannons earlier. They're nearly as effective against "elite" infantry as plasma rifles, and don't lose any effectiveness when their targets take cover. Better yet, they're just as effective against horde enemies like tyranids and guardsmen.

A combination of Fusion Blasters and Burst cannons can handle every target profile from hordes to elite infantry to MCs to vehicles.

Yeah that's the way to go I think. In addition to missiles of course for range and light armor duty.

I only wish the Tau player I played frequently used plasma instead of burst cannons. . .

I was wondering about taking the Flamers and hanging around some Promethium Relay Pipe for Torrent.

Thoughts?

I've always wanted to see this in action. It's a bit gimmicky, but Tau Battlesuits are some of the best candidates for doing it as they are relentless.

For general units I usually make a squad with a Mark'o, 2MP TL DC Iridium PEN (Not a fan of full on buffmander w/ MS3,CCN. Works just as well with one though.) and 3 crisis, 2MP,TL and 6 marker drones for MC/vehicle hunting while the 6 markerlights hit on 2+ on a different target. These guys do some serious damage and can tank quite a bit of shots before they get to my juicy warlord/markerlights. Since this unit contains both my warlord and usually only ML support this unit is a huge target priority. This allows me to let them get shot 2-3 turns then retreat far back into my line behind LoS causing him to have wasted 2-3 rounds of shooting. I've managed to win vs 4thunderwolf calvary charging this unit before with the Counterattack from PEN;dont forget to use it!

For deepstriking I usually do 2PR and 1 flamer on 2 suits(you can take any combination of these two weapons, whichever you prefer, TL the flamer or PR. or take 2Flamer, w/e you like the most) then 2PR,VRT on the third with maxed gun drones and stick these guys with a commander or farsight. Remember to place your flamers where the templates wont hit your commander tanking hits; you can't fire templates if it touches a friendly model. You can always place them up front then JSJ your commander/drones back in front to tank the next round of shots.

For Fusion blaster suits I'll do a solo suit w/ 2FB,VRT and 1 shield drone for the 4I and to tank lascannon shots.

In smaller point games I've used a "lone ranger" crisis suit with a BC,Flamer,Stim. He is less than 60 points and can kill off 5-6 infantry per turn; he can also take a decent amount of hits with the stim. Both games he was able to kill 6 marines/necron warriors before being charged and surviving 2 rounds of combat before dying.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I was wondering about taking the Flamers and hanging around some Promethium Relay Pipe for Torrent.

If you want to kill things flamers are decent at killing, why aren't you taking Fire Warriors who are much better at it?

Same law applies to Burst Cannons.

Dioxalyn wrote:
For general units I usually make a squad with a Mark'o, 2MP TL DC Iridium PEN (Not a fan of full on buffmander w/ MS3,CCN. Works just as well with one though.) and 3 crisis, 2MP,TL and 6 marker drones for MC/vehicle hunting while the 6 markerlights hit on 2+ on a different target. These guys do some serious damage and can tank quite a bit of shots before they get to my juicy warlord/markerlights. Since this unit contains both my warlord and usually only ML support this unit is a huge target priority. This allows me to let them get shot 2-3 turns then retreat far back into my line behind LoS causing him to have wasted 2-3 rounds of shooting. I've managed to win vs 4thunderwolf calvary charging this unit before with the Counterattack from PEN;dont forget to use it!

For deepstriking I usually do 2PR and 1 flamer on 2 suits(you can take any combination of these two weapons, whichever you prefer, TL the flamer or PR. or take 2Flamer, w/e you like the most) then 2PR,VRT on the third with maxed gun drones and stick these guys with a commander or farsight. Remember to place your flamers where the templates wont hit your commander tanking hits; you can't fire templates if it touches a friendly model. You can always place them up front then JSJ your commander/drones back in front to tank the next round of shots.

For Fusion blaster suits I'll do a solo suit w/ 2FB,VRT and 1 shield drone for the 4I and to tank lascannon shots.

In smaller point games I've used a "lone ranger" crisis suit with a BC,Flamer,Stim. He is less than 60 points and can kill off 5-6 infantry per turn; he can also take a decent amount of hits with the stim. Both games he was able to kill 6 marines/necron warriors before being charged and surviving 2 rounds of combat before dying.

Sorry but I'm not really understanding all of the abbreviations... also... When would one twin linked gun be better than duplicate guns?

The twin-linked gun is cheaper. Thats about it.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I was wondering about taking the Flamers and hanging around some Promethium Relay Pipe for Torrent.

If you want to kill things flamers are decent at killing, why aren't you taking Fire Warriors who are much better at it?

Same law applies to Burst Cannons.

Mostly to see my opponents face when dumping Multiple-Flamer Templates on his Open-Top-Transports from 12" away

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I was wondering about taking the Flamers and hanging around some Promethium Relay Pipe for Torrent.

If you want to kill things flamers are decent at killing, why aren't you taking Fire Warriors who are much better at it?

Same law applies to Burst Cannons.

Except the suits are tougher, have a better save, are more mobile, have a smaller foot print, can take drones for even more dakka and are less susceptible to blasts and templates.

They are susceptible to being ID'd, and you will lose bigger chunks of your dakka per model you lose, but I wouldn't say Fire Warriors are hands down better.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

Dioxalyn wrote:
For general units I usually make a squad with a Mark'o, 2MP TL DC Iridium PEN (Not a fan of full on buffmander w/ MS3,CCN. Works just as well with one though.) and 3 crisis, 2MP,TL and 6 marker drones for MC/vehicle hunting while the 6 markerlights hit on 2+ on a different target. These guys do some serious damage and can tank quite a bit of shots before they get to my juicy warlord/markerlights. Since this unit contains both my warlord and usually only ML support this unit is a huge target priority. This allows me to let them get shot 2-3 turns then retreat far back into my line behind LoS causing him to have wasted 2-3 rounds of shooting. I've managed to win vs 4thunderwolf calvary charging this unit before with the Counterattack from PEN;dont forget to use it!

For deepstriking I usually do 2PR and 1 flamer on 2 suits(you can take any combination of these two weapons, whichever you prefer, TL the flamer or PR. or take 2Flamer, w/e you like the most) then 2PR,VRT on the third with maxed gun drones and stick these guys with a commander or farsight. Remember to place your flamers where the templates wont hit your commander tanking hits; you can't fire templates if it touches a friendly model. You can always place them up front then JSJ your commander/drones back in front to tank the next round of shots.

For Fusion blaster suits I'll do a solo suit w/ 2FB,VRT and 1 shield drone for the 4I and to tank lascannon shots.

In smaller point games I've used a "lone ranger" crisis suit with a BC,Flamer,Stim. He is less than 60 points and can kill off 5-6 infantry per turn; he can also take a decent amount of hits with the stim. Both games he was able to kill 6 marines/necron warriors before being charged and surviving 2 rounds of combat before dying.

Sorry but I'm not really understanding all of the abbreviations... also... When would one twin linked gun be better than duplicate guns?

Mp = Missile Pod
TL = Target Lock
DC= Drone Controller
PEN= Puretide Engram Chip
VT= Velocity Tracker
VRT=Vectored Retro thrusters
FB= Fusion Blaster
PR= PLasma Rifle
BC= Burst Cannon
JSJ = Jump Shoot Jump

I think that covers all them