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Hi folks, I'm brand new to WFB and had a tough time choosing between Ogres and Beastmen (Minotaur heavy). Love both army looks, but finally decided on Ogres because I didn't want to paint a bunch of Gors/Ungors. Anyway, this is my first attempt at a 2500 Ogre list (pretty cookie-cutter from looking around, but any advice would be helpful). I have a Battalion Box and a Slaughtermaster, looking to direct my purchases with 2500 as my eventual goal.

Lord:
SM - Level 4, Lore of the Great Maw, Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Endurance

Heroes:
Bruiser (BSB) - Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation
Butcher - Level 2, Lore of Beasts, Ironfist, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon, Biting Blade, Dragonhelm (last 2 items just using leftover points)

Core:
8xIronguts - Champ, Bellower, Standard Bearer with Standard of Discipline and Lookout-Gnoblar
6xOgre Bulls - Ironfists, Bellower, Standard Bearer - 212
6xOgre Bulls - Ironfists, Bellower, Standard Bearer - 212

Special:
4xMournfang Cavalry - Heavy Armor, Bellower, Standard Bearer with Dragonhide Banner - 330
4xLeadbelchers - Bellower - 182
4xLeadbelchers - Bellower - 182
Sabretusk - 21
Sabretusk -21
Sabretusk - 21

Rare:
Ironblaster - 170

Questions:
How are the loadouts on my Lord/Hero?
How are my unit sizes?
Debated dropping the Mournfangs for more Ogres/Ironguts, where should I go?
My plan is to run the Lord and BSB with the Guts and the Butcher with one of the units of Bulls. How viable is this, and how should I set up my ranks?

- 1 unit of Lead Belchers plus 1 Ironblaster.

BTW you should take the points values down, I don't think that's allowed. Also, where's your Hellheart???

The Hellheart is that good? I see it all the time in lists, so I guess it must be.
Where are my points wrong, I don't see anything immediately evident?

I would recommend Lore of Heavens instead of Beasts on the butcher. Better overall support, Iceshard is a fantastic spell and easier for a lvl2 to cast.

Other then that, everything looks good.

With eight leadbelchers, I'd prefer heavens on the level 4. Harmonic makes them deadly.

 Egregious wrote:
The Hellheart is that good? I see it all the time in lists, so I guess it must be.
Where are my points wrong, I don't see anything immediately evident?

I have been playing ogres for a good while now and I disagree with everything they have said so far.

I'm willing to drop 1 unit of Leadbelchers and the Mournfang to pick up more Ogres and/or a unit of Maneaters. Also willing to change the loadout of the Butcher and his lore.
I don't really want to double up Ironblasters, I don't think doubling up on rares is very fluffy.
Still playing around with things like unit sizes, I like the idea of multiple infantry blocks to spread things out a bit.

There are three general ways to build ogres.

MMU, Shooty, and Horde.

You've got a more shooty list, although you would want the second Ironblaster to be a true shooty list.

Given that you don't want the second Ironblaster(its perfectly fluffy BTW) I would combine the two units of 6 bulls into one unit of 12. That would put you more towards the MMU(multiple medium units) style.

Do not get rid of the Mournfangs. They're awesome and provide a vital dimension to the army.

 namiel wrote:

 Egregious wrote:
The Hellheart is that good? I see it all the time in lists, so I guess it must be.
Where are my points wrong, I don't see anything immediately evident?

I have been playing ogres for a good while now and I disagree with everything they have said so far.

Very helpful. Got any real advice for the OP?

 Grey Templar wrote:
There are three general ways to build ogres.

MMU, Shooty, and Horde.

You've got a more shooty list, although you would want the second Ironblaster to be a true shooty list.

Given that you don't want the second Ironblaster(its perfectly fluffy BTW) I would combine the two units of 6 bulls into one unit of 12. That would put you more towards the MMU(multiple medium units) style.

Do not get rid of the Mournfangs. They're awesome and provide a vital dimension to the army.

 namiel wrote:

 Egregious wrote:
The Hellheart is that good? I see it all the time in lists, so I guess it must be.
Where are my points wrong, I don't see anything immediately evident?

I have been playing ogres for a good while now and I disagree with everything they have said so far.

Very helpful. Got any real advice for the OP?

Allow me to rephrase.....helheart is not required, why oh why would you drop leadbelchers for another ironblaster? If you're running a snooty ogre list you need the belchers and the ironblaster so drop a unit of ogres instead, heavens is great but not ultimately better then beasts.

Better?

The character loadouts for the slaughtermaster and bsb are pretty standard but your second caster has too much. I'd keep the scroll no matter what and maybe the ironcurse icon. Beyond that nothing else needed. I recommend putting him in with a bull unit of 8 go 3x3 and he goes in rank 2. If you want to shoot then maneaters are your friend. Brace of pistols with swiftstride and vanguard. People think they are going to just shoot but they forget the 5 str 5 attacks each one will have in combat.

Pick a style and go that way. Regardless the center of your army will generally be a decent sized unit of ironguts.

Looks solid, would just make a few changes:

1- drop the magical gear on BSB and just give him a great weapon. He should NEVER make it to combat. Just there to provide the re-roll and 3 WS5 S7 attacks.

2- drop the extra magic gear on the butcher and give him DS and Ruby Ring of Ruin. You need that MM.

3- give your Mournfang Ironfists or GW. I prefer Ironfists.

4- combine the two units of Ogres into one and drop any Ogres once your at min core.

5- I would personally find a way to get the Hellheart in. Id drop all the gear on your slaughtermaster in exchange for HH, Talisman of Preservation, and Ironcurse Icon.

6- keep the Mournfang, put all characters in the Ironguts and use the bulls to provide flank support. 6-9 Bulls is a solid combat unit especially with LotGM support.

Although a Hellheart would be nice, I don't like the idea of stripping all the magic weapons away from my Lord/Heroes. I'm already pretty vulnerable to Ethereals, and that would make it worse.
Revised my list to:

Lord:
SM Level 4, LotGM, Fencer's Blades, Talisman of Endurance, Glittering Scales, Ironcurse Icon - 380

Heroes:
Bruiser, BSB, Heavy Armor, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield - 184
Butcher Level 2, Lore of Beasts (maybe, Lore isn't set in stone. I like a lot of them), Ironfist, Dispel Scroll, Gambler's Armor, Tormentor Sword - 188

Core:
Ironguts x11, Full Command with Standard of Discipline and Lookout-Gnoblar - 523 (SM and BSB go here)
Ogres x9, Full Command, Ironfists - 318 (Butcher goes here)

Special:
Leadbelchers x4
Mournfang Cavalry x6, Full Command with Dragonhide Banner, Heavy Armor, Ironfists - 500
Sabretusk - 21
Sabretusk - 21
Sabretusk - 21

Rare:
Ironblaster - 170

Total: 2498

Gives me a couple of meaty core units to reinforce each other, with a nasty cavalry unit roaming around (although kind of worried about Artillery with them, they're expensive). A little bit of shooting just to keep things moving along and a handful of redirectors. Not really specialized at anything, but also not with any huge vulnerabilities that I can see. A little concerned that I'm putting all my eggs in one basket, combining one of my Ogre units. Entirely possible I'm missing something though...

Try this if you want more on the table

Drop one irongut, drop one ogre(adding the butcher will give you 3x3 formation), drop dragonhide, and 2 mournfang.

Thus should free up just enough points to make a unit of ogres 4x2 with musician and ironfisfs. Doing this in my head from memory so if its off Lmk but you should fit it. Dragonhide is nice but don't think its required by any means

Worked out perfectly, thank you.

Also dropped the Champ on the first Ogre squad so I could pick up the Standard Bearer on the second.

Took me to 2499 pts, with 3 infantry squads (10xIronguts w/ SM and BSB (4x3), 8xBulls w/ Butcher (3x3), and 8xBulls (4x2). It also reduced the size and points of the Mournfang to soften the blow a little if I lose them. The IG squad is still an "eggs in one basket" situation, but if I lose them I had already lost the game anyway.

More than 4 mournfangs in a unit is pointless. You become too wide or models in the second rank don't pull their weight.

4 is the sweet spot for them.