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are unique characters Characters? the current warlord rules say that any Character can be selected as your warlord. I was wondering about the Farsight Seven, and O'Vesa in particular. He is a named model, and has the Independent Character rule, but it doesn't say anything about him being a Character. Is he a legal warlord?

If i remember correctly, read the "Independant Character" rules...

It pretty much starts off by saying they are Characters with extra rules.

Edit: It's in the rulebook about "Characters": "Some characters have the Independent Character special rule, which allows them to join other units."

What Model is this?

If the Profile does not have the (character) tag then it is not able to access any character related Rules.
However, I am having a hard time picturing a non-Vehicle Model, with the (unique) tag, but lacking the (character) tag....

O'Vesa and the other Six are a special selection available in the Farsight Enclaves supplement.
P. 50 under 'Farsight's Commander Team', last sentence; 'Each of the Commander Team models is Unique and has the Independent Character special rule.'

The other six, there is no question that they can be selected as the warlord. O'Vesa is the only question mark. Farsight is a (Character) as on P. 96 of the Tau Empire Codex. Bravestorm, Brightsword, Sha'vastos, Arra'kon, and Torchstar are all commanders, which in the Tau Empire Codex are all (Character)s (P. 98). Ob'lotai is a Broadside Shas'vre, so it is a (Character) as well (P.103).

The only question is O'Vesa, who lacks such a designation.

Ah yes, that particular problem. Some versions of that Supplement where release lacking some very important information, the individual Datasheets for the Command Team. I never even realized that there was a problem till someone else pointed it out to me, as the copy I possessed does have the Datasheets for all the command team within the appendix section. When I get a chance to review it again, stupid working, I will post the profile presented on the Datasheet and we can see if O'Vesa does have the (Character) tag or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did get a copy with the Datasheets in it faster then I expected, thank you Internet, and something very curious is found:
Do you see the Character tag in the below quote?

UNIT TYPE: Jet Pack Monstrous Creature.


I am going to have to once more research to find out if the Independent Character Special Rule grants the Character status by default or not, or if it is just a Special Rule and only a confidence that characters have it more times then not. The section BlackTalos posted simply informs us that some characters will have the Independent Character Special Rule, that does not prevent a non-Character from also having this Special Rule nor does it automatically grant them the Character status if they have this Rule. There has to be something I am overlooking, hence why I will review the three or four sections that could be apparent, but for now I am leaning towards O'Vesa being a non-character.

I would like to point out that except for Farsight, none of the Eight can be your warlord, as to unlock them, Farsight must be your warlord.

*Facepalm*
Thanks HappyJew, I completely forgot about that Rule change....

Still interesting that O'Vesa does not have the (character) tag on their profile.

 Happyjew wrote:
I would like to point out that except for Farsight, none of the Eight can be your warlord, as to unlock them, Farsight must be your warlord.

this guy has it. I suppose that I should have read the FAQ, no?

Indeed, it is in there, but still curious about what this lack of (character) could mean for other Rule Interactions then just warlord....

Pretty sure all IC's are C's. Or, they are meant to be at least. Biggest implication is Look out Sir! Is tied to Characters and improved by IC rule, so if there was ever a IC which wasn't a C, it wouldn't have the rule.

It isn't outright stated, but many rules imply that IC's are all Characters as well.

for example "...join other Independent Characters, though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"

If they're not characters, it can't be a multi-character unit.
Not exactly RaW, but heavily implied.

 Nem wrote:
Pretty sure all IC's are C's. Or, they are meant to be at least. Biggest implication is Look out Sir! Is tied to Characters and improved by IC rule, so if there was ever a IC which wasn't a C, it wouldn't have the rule.

 grendel083 wrote:
It isn't outright stated, but many rules imply that IC's are all Characters as well.

for example "...join other Independent Characters, though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"

If they're not characters, it can't be a multi-character unit.
Not exactly RaW, but heavily implied.

There is indeed more than enough evidence in the "Character" Rules to imply all IC are C. If anyone is not convinced i can quote all the relevant RaW =)

 carldooley wrote:
has the Independent Character rule, but it doesn't say anything about him being a Character

 koooaei wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
has the Independent Character rule, but it doesn't say anything about him being a Character

Just because "Independent Character" has character in the name, does not make one a character. Just like a Heavy Flamer is not a heavy weapon, nor is an Assault Cannon an assault weapon.

Related Question:
Where instructions on how to determine if a Model is a Character?
I might be mistaken, memory is not good, but was there not instructions somewhere detailing how we determine this?

It's in the Unit Type section, right at the beginning.

This ties the unit type (character) found on a units profile, to the character rules. I assume that's what you're after? The link between the two?

I'll blame it on the late night, have not even had a coffee yet this morning....
Thank you Grendel083, that was the section I was looking for as it details how we determine if something is or is not a character.


So far I am finding it difficult to state O'Vesa is a character from a Rule as Written perspective and, because it is O'Vesa, I don't have enough confidence to state if the Authors did or did not Intend for him to be....

No coffee? Brutal...

The rules don't state that IC's are always characters. I suppose it is possible to be an IC without being a character, but the rules do seem to assume they all are.

I can't see it effecting much. Characters no longer gain precision shots, as a IC he already has LOS! on a 2+.
It only adds challenges. And as a single model mostly, those don't work in it's favour often.

Are there any unique, named units that are not characters? If no, then that should be an indication that it's just a mistaken omission on GW's part.

Other than vehicles? None come to mind.

In my opinion, this is a sign of Too Many Authors.

The Author of the Character Rule likely assumed it would be in the Independent Character Rule or no other Author would forget to put a (character) tag on a Model with the Independent Character Special Rule
The Author of the Independent Character Rule would have easily believed that the (Character) tag method was enough as well
The original Farsight Enclave Supplement instructions where simply to add X and Y to the existing profile, very easy to forget the (character) tag, or it was assumed by the Supplements Author that the Independent Character Special Rule would be enough for obvious reasons

No indication who wrote what, so possible it was three different Authors, and these sorts of oversight are easily made if you lack a good Editor and have Too Many Authors.
Remind me again, what do they call their Editor's position at Game Workshop?

JinxDragon wrote:
Remind me again, what do they call their Editor's position at Game Workshop?

Vacant

 carldooley wrote:
O'Vesa and the other Six are a special selection available in the Farsight Enclaves supplement.
P. 50 under 'Farsight's Commander Team', last sentence; 'Each of the Commander Team models is Unique and has the Independent Character special rule.'

The other six, there is no question that they can be selected as the warlord. O'Vesa is the only question mark. Farsight is a (Character) as on P. 96 of the Tau Empire Codex. Bravestorm, Brightsword, Sha'vastos, Arra'kon, and Torchstar are all commanders, which in the Tau Empire Codex are all (Character)s (P. 98). Ob'lotai is a Broadside Shas'vre, so it is a (Character) as well (P.103).

The only question is O'Vesa, who lacks such a designation.

Do Bravestorm, Brightsword, etc. have the Character type? Saying that they're Commanders (or whatever) and therefore would have the Character type is using a fluff argument to grant a rule. They are named units and should only have the rules listed in their unit entry. I'll check when I get home, but I don't have my FE book on me right now.

My take is that all Independent Characters are Characters with extra rules. The wording in the IC section seems to back this up. Given this, O'Vesa is a character just like the rest of the Eight.

Kriswall,
Was something I quickly checked, and while I did not look at all of them I can confirm a few of them have the (character) tag.

some models are unique, and fill a slot in HQ but are not characters or Independent characters.

Just got back to my copies of the books. O'Vesa is definitely not marked as being a character, but all seven others of the Eight are listed as such.

I've read through the Characters section and the Independent Characters section and nothing leads me to believe that being an IC grants Character status.

For the obvious reason that Farsight must be Warlord to unlock O'Vesa, the question of Warlord selection is moot.

If you have a different IC without the Character rule... then I would say that model can't be Warlord (unless of course you have NO characters in the army and t hen anything is fair game).