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I just realized that Mortars are the one Heavy Weapon that the Space Marines don't seem to use.

Okay, it forces them to be stationary which isn't generally good for their combat doctrines, but for the times when they're forced to defend static positions or just for a tactical edge where there's no LOS, they should use them. Why don't they? They're supposed to be able to adapt to every situation, and have access to all the wargear and yet they can't take Mortars in game and I've never seen or read any fluff about them using Mortars.

Any ideas or thoughts on this?

Mortars seem something better for scouts to use then actual marines- it's better to take advantage of their strength and ability to bear weight and hand them their ginormous rocket launchers.

Although a mortar that fired melta-bombs would be pretty bloody useful. Maybe GW will make a model with the new codex and charge $50 for it.

EDIT

Wait, aren't thunderfire cannons indirect fire weapons?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Mortars seem something better for scouts to use then actual marines- it's better to take advantage of their strength and ability to bear weight and hand them their ginormous rocket launchers.

Although a mortar that fired melta-bombs would be pretty bloody useful. Maybe GW will make a model with the new codex and charge $50 for it.

EDIT

Wait, aren't thunderfire cannons indirect fire weapons?

yea, thunderfire seems to be the marine version of a mortar. are we talking infantry portable because a whirlwind scorpius seems to be the same idea.


and god do I want a melta bomb launching mortar gun.

Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

yea but that seems a lot more expensive compared to a mortar when you have to drop orbital bombardments all the time.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

That's why they lack artillery. Mortars however are one or two man units which use tactical light firepower compared to artillery, while be more mobile. Its very nature screams "space marines".

I'd think it would be neat. A Melta-bomb mortar would be so versatile it wouldn't be funny.

The only real piece of artillery marines need is called a drop pod and it shoots marines at planets.

I model my TFC's as mole mortars. Which back in the day were used by the Astartes. Why not now? Because 40k is a rpg with figs, and the setting doesn't have to make sense.

Artillery doesn't really seem to sit with the astartes aesthetic.

They would probably only be suitable to bombard a dug in enemy and really almost anything in 40k would be better suited for that task than a mortar

I imagine if they'd ever need them for some sort of obscure reason they'd just requisition them from the guard

 Grey Templar wrote:
The only real piece of artillery marines need is called a drop pod and it shoots marines at planets.

Or if you want a more small-scale tactical solution for killing the guy on the other side of the hill: Assault marines with jump packs.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

yea but that seems a lot more expensive compared to a mortar when you have to drop orbital bombardments all the time.

Expensive? The Imperium will beggar entire worlds to support a Chapter. The Space Marines themselves need not worry about the cost of wargear so long as they remain loyal to the Imperium.

But, also, a laser from orbit doesn't really cost anything. Light is, basically, free.

I've never thought about it but space marines probably have no concept of money do they?

As to the OP - isn't the Vindicator a giant mortar?

There's never going to be an in-fluff situation where the Astartes need a mortar but can't call upon a feth ton of Guard siege weapons.

Astartes are there to drop into the enemy lines with a chainsword screaming. Even on the defensive surely all you would really use them for is to sally out and scare the enemy shitless?

I'm sure a Space Marine has the concept of money in the intellectual sense... but what does a Marine ever need to personally purchase?

They could use them in fluff terms, but in terms of gameplay, they wouldn't offer much, you don't see them much in IG armies either. They used to have the Thudd Gun which was basically a heavy mortar, GW reintroduced that as the Thunderfire cannon.

 Psienesis wrote:
.

But, also, a laser from orbit doesn't really cost anything. Light is, basically, free.

(Stolen shamelessly and adapted from 'Family Guy")

Gun-Captain Miklos: We know that Chaos is down there but hold your fire, until we get a signal from the targeting beacon.

Gun-Layer, Third Class Terry: Hold your fire? What, are we paying by the laser now?

Gun-Captain Miklos : You don't do the budget Terry, I do

 Psienesis wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

yea but that seems a lot more expensive compared to a mortar when you have to drop orbital bombardments all the time.

Expensive? The Imperium will beggar entire worlds to support a Chapter. The Space Marines themselves need not worry about the cost of wargear so long as they remain loyal to the Imperium.

But, also, a laser from orbit doesn't really cost anything. Light is, basically, free.

Light is NOT ‘free’, citizen.
Firstly, you must manoeuvre the Emperor’s naval vessel near to the day side of the planet, almost assuredly sustaining damage to the Emperor’s ship’s paint from radiation, while expending the Emperor’s fuel.
Then the Tech Priests must inspect the light in question to ascertain its worthiness to do the Emperor’s bidding. Should it pass muster, the Emperor’s Servitors must use the Emperor’s mirrors and magnifying glasses to prepare the stored light for movement. Finally, the Tech Priests finished, the Emperor’s officers may begin manoeuvring the Emperor’s warship closer to the target zone (expending yet more of the Emperor’s fuel.)
The vessel must then prepare the Emperor's batteries for firing, using up some of the Emperor's insulation and wire. The Emperor's vessel will then have to aim said light, resulting in wear and tear upon the Emperor's mechanisms and adverse effects towards the health of the crew charged with aiming.

Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following:
Two months, O&M, Titan class warship: 4.2 Million Imperials
Two months, rations, crew of same: 0.2 MI
Two months, Tech Priest pastor: 1.7 MI
Two months, Servitor parish: 0.3 MI
Paint, Titan class warship: 2.5 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.9 MI
Total: 9.8 MI

Contrasted with the following:
5 warheads, magna-melta: 2.5 MI
One day, O&M, Titan class warship: 0.3 MI
One day, rations, crew of same: 0.0 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.1 MI
Total: 2.9 MI

Given the same result with under one third of the cost, the Emperor will have saved a massive amount of His most sacred money and almost a full month of time, during which His warship may be bombarding an entirely different planet.
The Emperor, through this – His Office of Imperial Outlays – hereby orders you to attend one (1) week of therapeutic accountancy training/penance. Please report to Areicon IV, Imperial City, Administratum Building CXXI, Room 1456, where you are to sit in the BLUE chair.

 Otto Weston wrote:
I just realized that Mortars are the one Heavy Weapon that the Space Marines don't seem to use. Okay, it forces them to be stationary which isn't generally good for their combat doctrines.

Mortars? Stationary? A small team of ordinary men can carry the popular 81mm mortar with them on foot. A marine could carry it alone, with a team mate carrying ammo. Not to mention vehicle-mounted versions - ours are advanced enough to fire a salvo at coordinates and drive to the next position before any counter-fire has time to zero in.

But granted, SM combat doctrine still makes it unnecessary for them. If they're close enough to rain mortar shells at a trench they're close enough to just charge, firing wildly and swinging chainswords.

Verviedi wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Also remember that marines have their own ships in space, if they want to pin an enemy to encircle them, they can just orb bombard them.

yea but that seems a lot more expensive compared to a mortar when you have to drop orbital bombardments all the time.

Expensive? The Imperium will beggar entire worlds to support a Chapter. The Space Marines themselves need not worry about the cost of wargear so long as they remain loyal to the Imperium.

But, also, a laser from orbit doesn't really cost anything. Light is, basically, free.

<snip>

That's for rocks, not light, which you're already transporting aboard your own vessel in your Sunsear laser batteries and such. Your time-frame for aiming and firing the laserbatteries is the same for dragging a rock out of orbit.. which is why they put lasers on ships and not railguns.

Spetulhu wrote:
Mortars? Stationary? A small team of ordinary men can carry the popular 81mm mortar with them on foot. A marine could carry it alone, with a team mate carrying ammo. Not to mention vehicle-mounted versions - ours are advanced enough to fire a salvo at coordinates and drive to the next position before any counter-fire has time to zero in.

But granted, SM combat doctrine still makes it unnecessary for them. If they're close enough to rain mortar shells at a trench they're close enough to just charge, firing wildly and swinging chainswords.

Maybe that's what we need to convince the SM....Chain Mortars!

To be fair, mortars actually have quite a bit of range on them, in reality they can hit targets a couple kilometers away.

There's no reason marines couldn't have one attached to their back pack if they really wanted one considering how strong they are, firing off of an auto mechanism.

They just really aren't need by marines though.

Side thought - I know the reason why for game balance but still, why hasn't a story had a whole terminator squad equipped with cyclone missile launcher yet, and assault cannons instead of the storm bolter for that matter as well, maybe with storm shields for extra protection. Ultimate breacher/boarding squad.

Actually, I've just thought of a few units in the marine codex where mortars may actually be useful. Ironclad dreadnoughts, and definitely assault centurions, rolling pinning fire as they move towards the enemy in a siege or inner city fight.

marines used to have mortars, but its not really a very mariney way of doing things.