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Gotta say my meta came to a screeching halt when the Wizkids rules forum and rules came out. Of course, none of the Borg players are happy at all. The Easy Button has been taken away from them, and they now have to (Gasp!) play they game like everyone else. The Dreadnaught players are all bummed 'cuz now they need 3 ships.

The biggest gripe I'm hearing right now is that people just don't know the rules anymore. May, should, can, this card works like this now, you can't use that card for that anymore, whatever- seems like Wizkids took a big hammer to their own game.

I haven't played a single game since the errata came out. Played some X-Wing and D&D Attack Wing though.

I feel like they just need a memory jogging card like the ones that come with 40k boxed sets, with a chart with 'May = x, Can = x etc etc'.

I also wonder if a new version or edition might be on the way? 2nd ed or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this is my first Wizkids game interest, is there really no impetus to run your own campaigns and games out there? Everyone seems to sit on their laurels and wait for Wizkids to tell them when to play and how to play.

I'm all for the competitive events, just I don't see, with the exception of Mr Balders here, anyone playing the game for fun...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Also, this is my first Wizkids game interest, is there really no impetus to run your own campaigns and games out there? Everyone seems to sit on their laurels and wait for Wizkids to tell them when to play and how to play.

I'm all for the competitive events, just I don't see, with the exception of Mr Balders here, anyone playing the game for fun...

This is fairly common of WizKids games in general, as are the rules bloat and errata issues. Just par for the course for Wizkids to start with a good, relatively simple game and make it a bloated, difficult to play correctly monstrosity. It happened with Mage Knight, it happened with HeroClix(and I say this as someone who still LOVES Clix), now it's happening here.

As Meangreenstompa said, I am still playing and having fun. I have played 2 OPs in the past week. My 3rd was cancelled but I think that has more to do with the time of year than any changes. We had one last year cancelled in November/December. I find that the enjoyment of OPs comes down to 2 things, the group and the TO. If the TO does not listen to the players the event suffers. Though the group is a little more important. A good group that cares about the game and everyone having fun can overcome a bad scenario and a bad TO.

As for non OP play I am having a blast. My local TO just had an Enterprise/TOS tournament that was a lot of fun. At home among good friends and the Mrs, we play some home made scenarios and larger games. Currently we are planning a 400 point battle of Cardassians vs Klingons.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:


As for non OP play I am having a blast. My local TO just had an Enterprise/TOS tournament that was a lot of fun. At home among good friends and the Mrs, we play some home made scenarios and larger games. Currently we are planning a 400 point battle of Cardassians vs Klingons.

This is what I'm talking about, more stores and organizers should be running their own campaigns and mini tourneys between releases. Add more fun to it.

We had our Collective OP3 yesterday and had our best turnout ever - 8 people. I came second using the Scimitar & Valdore with Gavroche blind. I tied on points with a friend for the Assimilated prize but our TO hadn't recorded Fleet Points from the previous OP and hadn't organised a third event due to a no show of the support pack so I allowed my friend to take the grand prize (I didn't really want it as I don't play Mirror faction)

We're very belatedly getting the Dominion War OP5 in December and there is RIF and a league planned for after Xmas. So I'm hoping our games will keep going

Definitely still going, and strong! Just about to start suckering in my brother in law, too

It will end up having a pretty severe impact on my meta, as most of the TOs in my area aren't overly 'net savvy, and probably don't even know that the rules forum is up at all. In my closer to home meta, it completely derailed my regular gaming night (and no, none of us were power-gamey Borg players). The problem for me has been not having a comprehensive document to collect all of the things that now exist, counter to what's printed on the cards, in the rulebook, or in the original FAQ.

I anticipate that in the long run, the changes are going to hurt my local scene pretty badly. Hope that I'm wrong, though.

There is no longer a scene in my area:(

We played at a local gaming club with people from all over the area. However most of us don't know each other and only see each other at an event. Because of this a consistent set of rules is needed and that's no longer the case.

Last event I setup based on the new rules as per the TO telling me. However no one else was told apparently and they all turned up with borg and dreadnought builds and i got curb stompee . The whole experience of the last event has turned me off a little, along with the whole prize ship arms race.

I know in my area that the Borg killed whatever competitive scene we had. We have RiF 1 this Friday with the new rules, and I kinda want to go, but I just anticipate instead of seeing a single Borg cube, I'm going to see 5 Scout Cubes+Blind, or Double Sphere lists.

The only non-Borg list that has been competitive is a klingon Spam list with the Disruption upgrade- and he was 50/50 versus the Borg players.

I've seen two games played (neither of them by me) since our last OP in early November. Most people are just shaking their heads or don't fully understand what the new rules are. I know I don't, and I'm not really paying much attention/studying them as I feel like it's a waste of my time when they will probably change the rules again tomorrow.

I think it's just this general feeling of malaise or fatigue over too much controversy.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I know in my area that the Borg killed whatever competitive scene we had. We have RiF 1 this Friday with the new rules, and I kinda want to go, but I just anticipate instead of seeing a single Borg cube, I'm going to see 5 Scout Cubes+Blind, or Double Sphere lists.

The only non-Borg list that has been competitive is a klingon Spam list with the Disruption upgrade- and he was 50/50 versus the Borg players.

I've seen two games played (neither of them by me) since our last OP in early November. Most people are just shaking their heads or don't fully understand what the new rules are. I know I don't, and I'm not really paying much attention/studying them as I feel like it's a waste of my time when they will probably change the rules again tomorrow.

I think it's just this general feeling of malaise or fatigue over too much controversy.

You really should give the new rules a try, a 4 scout cube list + blind (is the best borg spam 90 points can buy) or a double sphere list both are not that powerful.

We had RIF 1 this saturday and my Breen slapped the poo out of the Borg.

My List:
Rav Lasert
Gul Dukat
Unnessassary Blood Shed
Anti-Proton Scan
Energy Dissapator

Breen Cruiser (Tech Slot)
Thot Pran
Invaluable Advice
Anti- Proton scan
Energy Disapator

Resource
Command Tokens (BS, TL, reroll AT, change one At Die, +1 Attack Die)

Blind (30)
Bok's Mauarader
Bok
Thought Maker this card is awesome I used it every game to either buy me time (turning around) or force a ship into a trap.

Round 1: Klingon I'm not going to go into detail. Thot Pran one shotted a BOP in first round of shooting. Thought Maker forced his Kazon blind into a turkey shoot

Round 2: Borg 2 sphere list one with Borg Missle the other had a Queen skill 8. Prekesh was his blind Yar and Dorsal Weapon. Not the best Borg list but really for 90 points its about average. I think he was trying to play action deny with the low skill drone sphere and the Prekesh, but I guessed his move with both on the seconded move phase.

Dukat Dead
Thot Pran at critical 1 Hull left
Bok 2 shields gone (Yars ability)....I used Thought maker to force queen away from me to buy time and turn Bok around

Round 3: Khan on Soong with a couple of borg upgades and a Maquis, chakotay+ramming attack+I stab at thee. Blind was Tal'Kir. I got the win because of Thought Maker. I forced the Soong into a trap with Thot Pran's Dissapator

I just had my 3rd RiF2 this past weekend and the borg are not nearly as bad now. We did have a huge turn out but we are all seasoned players. I don't think the borg won a single round. They don't have to points for both defense and offense. At both my 2nd and 3rd RiF2 my double Scimitar list was tearing spheres apart. Not being able to target lock is a big downside for the borg.

By no means are the borg push overs, but even now they have to choose between defensive upgrades like hull armour/feedback pulse OR good captains like Picard. They can't have both now.


As for the new rules we didn't have any issues in our last OP.

Our previous OPs were becoming dominated by Borg and Fednaught builds but at our OP this weekend just gone we had

Borg (Sphere & Soong)
Romulan (Scimitar & Valdore)
Borg (Dual Spheres)
Federation
Federation
Federation
Federation
Dominion

Admittedly 2 of the top 3 were Borg, but the Feds are now using fleets and my Romulans only narrowly lost to the Borg in the last match

our attendance is about the same as before,

we started faction pure and have TO's used to managing games a bit due to working with things like 40k WMH ect.


in OP's personally, I have won 3/3 of RIF #1, with fed, klingon, and independant fleets,

on my 2nd rif 2 tonite, last time I used a alternate universe galaxy, this time I might do the same or maybe do feds. its a 60 pt build faction pure with no restrictions otherwise, so still might be super cubes out there for me!

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
I just had my 3rd RiF2 this past weekend and the borg are not nearly as bad now. We did have a huge turn out but we are all seasoned players. I don't think the borg won a single round. They don't have to points for both defense and offense. At both my 2nd and 3rd RiF2 my double Scimitar list was tearing spheres apart. Not being able to target lock is a big downside for the borg.

By no means are the borg push overs, but even now they have to choose between defensive upgrades like hull armour/feedback pulse OR good captains like Picard. They can't have both now.


As for the new rules we didn't have any issues in our last OP.

Any chance of you sharing this double Scimitar list? I'm kinda curious...

 Tamwulf wrote:

Any chance of you sharing this double Scimitar list? I'm kinda curious...

Sure it's in my other thread, enjoy

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/624715.page)