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Anyone tried this yet?

That sounds like a lot of points just to be able to alpha-strike 1 unit. Can't see it doing very well against MSU builds. What is it, 400+ points? It comes in, kills a 35-pt rhino or 2, and then your opponent focuses his entire army to try to take out both the transport and the guys inside.

I would say it is a highly situational tactic and not a good TAC one.

Can't see how the Tantalus is doing anything special for the WG the archon isn't doing. The tantalus is a great gun boat, but is essentially a slightly better WS when it comes to durability. WS die to assault, the tantalus will die to assault. So all you've really done is put a really nice, durable dakka boat in front of your enemy to assault.

Tantalus is a gun platform that wants to sit ~36" away and melt MC's/heavy infantry while protecting a squishy dakka unit. Dark reapers would go well: They are squishy so benefit from the resilience, and have long range weapons along with slow and purposeful. Ends up in the same problem (having lots of points in one place), but you get the most out of the tantalus' durability. Plus you know where your opponents heavy weapons will be pointed. If transport capacity was 20, warriors w/splinter cannons all day. Cheap, squishy, long/mid ranged dakka unit is your ideal cargo for the tantalus. Unfortunately the capacity is just in the useless range. To small to let you get in a large blob of dakka, and just large enough to tempt you into using it as an assault boat for your CC unit of choice (getting it assaulted and blown up).

If you want a squad that close use an expendable raider, or archon. Tantalus should be shooting and protecting shooting units.

I agree, bring the wraithguard and DS with the archon, then bring a raider full of slythh or warriors as a hose of AI shots. Probably similar points and way more deadly.

Originally i had wanted to run the same thing last ed, tant with wraithguard, But A) your only really bringing the tantalus in order to allow you 5 wraith and some IC's. and then B) you've got a very big fire magnet.

i think; bring the wraithguard, with a spiritseer and archon, DS them, put a wraithguard up front followed by your archon. wipe out a unit, eat the return fire, then board the raider with your smaller unit and cruise about flaming stuff to death If thats what your going for.

I think this works much better with just the WG in a raider, and just DSing it the normal way.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I think this works much better with just the WG in a raider, and just DSing it the normal way.

I completely agree. Situationaly the Archon can be useful if you have a heavy tank behind bubble wrap and you have a hole large enough to drop into. That's a lot of caveats to fill. If it was me I'd go for more WG in more raiders and leave the Archon to drop with Firedragons (where the distance matters more). Then again, I don't particularly like WG in the first place. Too many points and too little durability.

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I think this works much better with just the WG in a raider, and just DSing it the normal way.

I completely agree. Situationaly the Archon can be useful if you have a heavy tank behind bubble wrap and you have a hole large enough to drop into. That's a lot of caveats to fill. If it was me I'd go for more WG in more raiders and leave the Archon to drop with Firedragons (where the distance matters more). Then again, I don't particularly like WG in the first place. Too many points and too little durability.

For a core Eldar list, I agree a thousand percent. But in a predominantly Dark Eldar list, 5 WS 4 shots and S10 AP 2 is pretty sweet. Our codex suffers against heavy armor, and this can be a good way to mitigate that.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I think this works much better with just the WG in a raider, and just DSing it the normal way.

I completely agree. Situationaly the Archon can be useful if you have a heavy tank behind bubble wrap and you have a hole large enough to drop into. That's a lot of caveats to fill. If it was me I'd go for more WG in more raiders and leave the Archon to drop with Firedragons (where the distance matters more). Then again, I don't particularly like WG in the first place. Too many points and too little durability.

For a core Eldar list, I agree a thousand percent. But in a predominantly Dark Eldar list, 5 WS 4 shots and S10 AP 2 is pretty sweet. Our codex suffers against heavy armor, and this can be a good way to mitigate that.

Trueborn in a venom (x2 cannons) are only 20 points more and one high strength shot worse. I get the want/need for high strength shots, I'm just skeptical that WG fill that role efficiently. They are essentially a suicide unit, so you really need to select that one target well if they are supposed to get their points back. Fire Dragons do essentially the same job, but 50 points cheaper. Dark Reapers are ~ same points, but don't put themselves in assault range to do it (I've been really liking the idea of DR's in a raider/venom lately, but purely conceptual at this point). WK costs less than 2 WG squads, and gives you a load more tactical options as well as being more durable. Etc, etc.

Like I said, I understand the want for higher str. firepower in the DE codex. I just think there are more points efficient ways to get it from units that will survive their first shot.

Hmm. I'd be interested to see some more comparison of the reapers to the wraithguard. Hadn't really given the DRs much consideration.

As far as suicide units go, I'm usually running a DS intensive list, so the opponent has lots of enemies to try to choose from. And if they DO ICs the WG, the high toughness and good save will do quite a bit to absorb a good amount of enemy firepower, I'd think.

Target priority might help them stay alive, but I'd doubt it. Leaving S10 weapons in your face is usually not a good idea. Surviving for WG isn't nearly as big an issue as getting tar-pitted. A squad of 5 naked marines has a pretty decent chance at tying them up for an entire game, at about 40% of the cost. I'm not saying they can't work, I just loathe the idea of a shooting unit w/no CC ability having to get so close to their targets. Especially when they cost what a WG costs.

As far as DR's go, I think they'd make a really good unit in a raider/venom. Just gives them mobile protection while they shoot, helping them to get angles on targets as well.

Problem is, finding the slots to do this. If you're running Eldar Primary, you have to give up your FA slot to do it. If you're running DE primary, you don't get to take a WK (which is probably #1 choice in that slot). With Eldar primary you might be able to embark them on a warrior transport turn 1, but I can't see taking them as DE primary. WK's are just to good.

Hmm,
I disagree they are a suicide unit, in a eldar/DE list i'd expect to be DSing in a whole lot of other pain too, so even if they do focus down your wraithguard in 1 turn they've potentially left slythh gunboats, grots, fire dragons and plenty of other nasty units right in their face. Plus if you've got them in a raider, id take the flamers, not much of a range decrease and provides some good protection from tarpits due to D3 overwatch hits.

I agree a tarpit is much more effective against them, hence why an IC is useful. But so long as you have a unit that can help out if they get tarpitted then you should be good (although i am biased purely cos wraithguard are conceptually awesome!).

DR's, venom such a sweet idea

Also, why cant you take a wraithknight in a DE primary? am i missing a rule? as I thought this was all cool?

The point of the Tabtalus is that it's a super heavy, so it has to be glanced down. And it's AV12 not ten. And it has a Flickerfield and five HPs. When it does die, it will not be exploded. Instead it will remain as a piece of cover. And disembarking the Wraiths to where they are likely to get another turn of shooting before they go down / get tarpitted seems more likely. The spiritseer will have conceal and a chance of shrouded or invisibility.

Also, it has a transport capacity of 20. Wraithguard are bulky so can't go with another vehicle and a Webway portal. Let alone a spiritseer. It won't kill a rhino when it comes in. It will kill whatever unit you want that doesn't have a 12" bubblewrap. Plus, the Tantalus will blast a lot of high strength, low AP gaks into another unit. Also, the spiritseer may well Psychic Shriek.

I think if I was going to run Reapers, I'd prefer a Bunker (with Comms relay or ammo dump) to a venom. Venoms die turn one.

the Tantalus is not a super-heavy, it only has a transport capacity of 16.

where are you getting its rules from?

Kholzerino wrote:

I think if I was going to run Reapers, I'd prefer a Bunker (with Comms relay or ammo dump) to a venom. Venoms die turn one.

I get where your coming from, but venoms die turn one is a little bit blanket statement imo. Yes they will die horribly if its the only target you give your opponent.
A) if your running a DS strike list they are likely to be in turn 2 (as with bringing eldar allies i'd assume an autarch for the manipulation), you can DS in at a reasonable range facing either side or rear armour.
B) If your going second hiding them behind a LOS bit of terrain is perfectly acceptable. They have a decent range and they aren't for rushing in with, so moving out to shoot is fine.
C) Once the venom does go down DR's have a 3+ if im not mistaken? So they are likely to be ok, and you've hopefully put them either in a nice commanding piece of cover that they can continue to shoot out of or they are a decent way out from any major threats.

I think DR's in a venom is a reasonable option. might not be ultra-competitive, as the DR's themselves aren't anyway, but I think its still a solid idea.

 Dash2021 wrote:
Target priority might help them stay alive, but I'd doubt it. Leaving S10 weapons in your face is usually not a good idea. Surviving for WG isn't nearly as big an issue as getting tar-pitted. A squad of 5 naked marines has a pretty decent chance at tying them up for an entire game, at about 40% of the cost. I'm not saying they can't work, I just loathe the idea of a shooting unit w/no CC ability having to get so close to their targets. Especially when they cost what a WG costs.

As far as DR's go, I think they'd make a really good unit in a raider/venom. Just gives them mobile protection while they shoot, helping them to get angles on targets as well.

Problem is, finding the slots to do this. If you're running Eldar Primary, you have to give up your FA slot to do it. If you're running DE primary, you don't get to take a WK (which is probably #1 choice in that slot). With Eldar primary you might be able to embark them on a warrior transport turn 1, but I can't see taking them as DE primary. WK's are just to good.

Between DRs and WKs, which is the more wallet friendly? When we're talking about WK prices, that suddenly becomes a factor.

Jimsolo wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:
Target priority might help them stay alive, but I'd doubt it. Leaving S10 weapons in your face is usually not a good idea. Surviving for WG isn't nearly as big an issue as getting tar-pitted. A squad of 5 naked marines has a pretty decent chance at tying them up for an entire game, at about 40% of the cost. I'm not saying they can't work, I just loathe the idea of a shooting unit w/no CC ability having to get so close to their targets. Especially when they cost what a WG costs.

As far as DR's go, I think they'd make a really good unit in a raider/venom. Just gives them mobile protection while they shoot, helping them to get angles on targets as well.

Problem is, finding the slots to do this. If you're running Eldar Primary, you have to give up your FA slot to do it. If you're running DE primary, you don't get to take a WK (which is probably #1 choice in that slot). With Eldar primary you might be able to embark them on a warrior transport turn 1, but I can't see taking them as DE primary. WK's are just to good.

Between DRs and WKs, which is the more wallet friendly? When we're talking about WK prices, that suddenly becomes a factor.

No arguing that. Only reason I own a WK is from tournament winnings. DR's are so "bad" you can probably pick them up for 1/5 the cost of a WK.

Solar Shock wrote:Hmm,
I disagree they are a suicide unit, in a eldar/DE list i'd expect to be DSing in a whole lot of other pain too, so even if they do focus down your wraithguard in 1 turn they've potentially left slythh gunboats, grots, fire dragons and plenty of other nasty units right in their face. Plus if you've got them in a raider, id take the flamers, not much of a range decrease and provides some good protection from tarpits due to D3 overwatch hits.

I agree a tarpit is much more effective against them, hence why an IC is useful. But so long as you have a unit that can help out if they get tarpitted then you should be good (although i am biased purely cos wraithguard are conceptually awesome!).

DR's, venom such a sweet idea

Also, why cant you take a wraithknight in a DE primary? am i missing a rule? as I thought this was all cool?

That was a referance to most tournaments limiting you to a primary CAD and an ally, meaning only one HS slot for your ally. Straight out of the book it wouldn't be an issue if you're running 2 CADs.

I agree if you use an aggressive DS list, the WG can be a useful tool. Against a less experienced player they'll soak shots and take out a high priority target, giving the rest of your army a breather. A more experienced player will wreck their ride and charge with something to tie them up/kill them. It does give you the advantage of knowing where the focus will be the turn after you drop, but they're going to get dealt with the turn after they drop. No one is going to let a squad of S10 shots walk around their backfield. Bringing a unit to bail them out of the inevitable charge essentially increases the WG units cost, which is already pretty high. This might be one actually useful scenario to bring wyches in though, so I'll give it that.

DS'ng WG isn't the most awful idea that's ever been had, I just don't see it as being super competitive. Again this might just be colored from the fact I don't like WG in the first place, and I'm definitely not saying the unit can't work. Just that you can do the same thing with less investment, more reliably. But if you like DSng WG, go for it. Given some practice and tweaking you can really dictate how your opponent plays his next turn, which can be leveraged to put you in the driver seat the rest of the game.

Solar Shock wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:

I think if I was going to run Reapers, I'd prefer a Bunker (with Comms relay or ammo dump) to a venom. Venoms die turn one.

I get where your coming from, but venoms die turn one is a little bit blanket statement imo. Yes they will die horribly if its the only target you give your opponent.
A) if your running a DS strike list they are likely to be in turn 2 (as with bringing eldar allies i'd assume an autarch for the manipulation), you can DS in at a reasonable range facing either side or rear armour.
B) If your going second hiding them behind a LOS bit of terrain is perfectly acceptable. They have a decent range and they aren't for rushing in with, so moving out to shoot is fine.
C) Once the venom does go down DR's have a 3+ if im not mistaken? So they are likely to be ok, and you've hopefully put them either in a nice commanding piece of cover that they can continue to shoot out of or they are a decent way out from any major threats.

I think DR's in a venom is a reasonable option. might not be ultra-competitive, as the DR's themselves aren't anyway, but I think its still a solid idea.

Agreed: "Venoms die" is not a useful observation. May as well not bring venoms or raiders because they are so easy to kill. Venom/Raider offers protection w/mobility, as opposed to a stationary bunker that can be LoS blocked or simply out ranged. Venoms are potent gun platforms in their own right, so assigning one to a DR's and letting the original unit foot slog isn't a giant change in your list. A bunker is something you wouldn't normally bring, and so is pulling points from something else in your list. Bunker's not a bad idea. But just like WG you're pouring more points into an already expensive unit, whereas a venom is something you were planning on bringing anyway.

I think Reapers can have a place in 7th. Ignoring jink is huge in the current meta of WS/Venoms/Raiders/Fliers/Bikers. The trick is to find them a platform that is sturdy enough to protect them, while making sure they've always got a target. Bunker's offer protection, but a static bunker doesn't seem to fit in such highly mobile armies.

 Dash2021 wrote:


That was a referance to most tournaments limiting you to a primary CAD and an ally, meaning only one HS slot for your ally. Straight out of the book it wouldn't be an issue if you're running 2 CADs.

I think Reapers can have a place in 7th. Ignoring jink is huge in the current meta of WS/Venoms/Raiders/Fliers/Bikers. The trick is to find them a platform that is sturdy enough to protect them, while making sure they've always got a target. Bunker's offer protection, but a static bunker doesn't seem to fit in such highly mobile armies.

Ah thanks for clearing that up I have yet to run my DE but i have a wraithknight arriving for xmas and some wraithguard, so im think im kinda on the DSing wraithguard band wagon anyways

wraithknight, couple warwalkers and a jetseer starting on the table, DSing in wraithguard (suppliment eldar over standard), dire avengers (in raider) along with the dark artisan formation and some other DE units. Or atleast thats the plan anyways An aggressive shooty list, but hoping I can use the dark artisan and grots as a hammer and anvil to make charging the wraithguard seem a very poor choice.

I would love some reapers, but sadly i still have plenty to paint and make before i should be investing any further I agree, a venom isnt the most study for the DR's, but other than a raider there isn't much that allows them the mobile shooting.