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I've decided that my mechguard with Space Marine alies needs more Anti Air than just the two Hydras it currently has, as the Hydras have some trouble dealing with AV 12 fliers. I haven't used the Heavy Support slot on my Space Marines Allies Force Org, so I'm considering adding a Storm Raven to my list at the cost of a Relic Sicaran and some pimping elsewhere. The other high strength AA option I have is a Vendetta, which is 30 points cheaper but would not give me a transport option for my Marines, or carry a Melta weapon for melting tanks.

What do you guys think?

I like the vendetta. not too hard to get to back or side armor and use the 3 tw lascannons. Also you can stick a command squad or special weapons squad from an infantry platoon in it and get 3 or 4 flamers or meltas.

I ally in IG specifically to get access to Vendettas. Those 3 TL Lascannons are pretty great, and there's no reason you couldn't transport an SM Command Squad in it.

OK, so I get that the Vendetta still rocks, but the only problem I have with that is that all three Lascannons are Hull-mounted, and I've heard horror stories about people only getting to shoot twice in a game with their Vendettas.

I figured that with its TL lascannon being turret-mounted, the Stormraven might have less of this problem.

I voted Stormraven, though both are amazing. Everyone forgets about the stormstrike missiles, which are 4 S8 Ap2's. Coupled with the TL MM and TL AC, it is a big early-game punch (though again, both are amazing, I have one raven and two vendettas tbh lol).

When the vendetta was transport capacity 12 and for 130 pts the vendetta was amazing. Now at 170 pts for capacity 6 it is very mediocre. The Stormraven for 30 pts more is a vastly superior flyer. Rear armour 12 means it doesn't fear a dog fight or over flying a unit. The assault cannon turret allows rear and side shots to many targets with even a little clever positioning. The multi melta gives a better chance to explode the target than the 3 lascannons on the vendetta combined. The immunity to melta helps more than you might imagine as I have often brought down flyers with spare melta shots that were repositioning after going after big game. The assault ramp even allows you transported unit to assault from it, something that can be amazing when you bring some demolition Melta IG vets to assault Imperial Knights.

TBH though the fire raptor or vulture are better models and vastly better gunships.

 ansacs wrote:
When the vendetta was transport capacity 12 and for 130 pts the vendetta was amazing. Now at 170 pts for capacity 6 it is very mediocre. The Stormraven for 30 pts more is a vastly superior flyer. Rear armour 12 means it doesn't fear a dog fight or over flying a unit. The assault cannon turret allows rear and side shots to many targets with even a little clever positioning. The multi melta gives a better chance to explode the target than the 3 lascannons on the vendetta combined. The immunity to melta helps more than you might imagine as I have often brought down flyers with spare melta shots that were repositioning after going after big game. The assault ramp even allows you transported unit to assault from it, something that can be amazing when you bring some demolition Melta IG vets to assault Imperial Knights.

TBH though the fire raptor or vulture are better models and vastly better gunships.

So If I decide to do a Forge World Order, should I go for a Fire Rapor or a Vulture.

Also, If I get a Stormraven, which I think I will, should I model it with Assault Cannons or Lascannons? I don't really feel confidant enough in my modeling skills to magnetize them, and I'm not really sure which one is better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, or a Storm Eagle? Should I consider that one too?

Heir of the Void wrote:
So If I decide to do a Forge World Order, should I go for a Fire Rapor or a Vulture.

Depends on what you need, they're both good units.

The Vulture is cheap like most IG units (155 with punisher cannons, the default option) but relies on volume of fire to do damage. Against light infantry it wipes them off the table, but the tougher the target gets the less effective STR 5 AP - becomes. Basic MEQs are still a decent target, but once you face 2+ saves, FNP, T6 MCs, etc, you aren't going to do very much. Same thing against vehicles: you're removing ~6 HP per turn against AV 10, ~3 HP against AV 11, and can't even roll dice against AV 12. So against most vehicles if you can get into rear armor (and vector dancer really helps here) you can almost guarantee a kill, but if you can't do that (or have a target with good rear armor) your Vulture is a useless paperweight.

The Fire Raptor is expensive like most C:SM units, but it has ridiculous quality of shooting. You have tons of low-strength high-AP shots for MEQs, enough volume of fire to put a dent in hordes (especially if you take the quad HB side guns), and you make MCs cry. Against vehicles you have some of the Vulture's problem, with a higher "can't even roll dice" threshold balanced out by not having vector dancer and those easy shots against rear armor. On the other hand, you kind of have to compare the Fire Raptor to a pair of Vultures, and then it's a little more uncertain whether the huge price tag is worth it.

So I guess the final answer depends on what you expect to face most often. If you're worried about tough infantry/MC targets or need AA that can hurt flyers without needing shots against rear AV 10 get the Fire Raptor. If you want a good generalist get the Vulture. One thing to keep in mind though is that the Fire Raptor (like the other Storm Raven variants) is notoriously difficult to assemble, while the Vulture is easier than most plastic kits.

 Peregrine wrote:

Heir of the Void wrote:
So If I decide to do a Forge World Order, should I go for a Fire Rapor or a Vulture.

Depends on what you need, they're both good units.

The Vulture is cheap like most IG units (155 with punisher cannons, the default option) but relies on volume of fire to do damage. Against light infantry it wipes them off the table, but the tougher the target gets the less effective STR 5 AP - becomes. Basic MEQs are still a decent target, but once you face 2+ saves, FNP, T6 MCs, etc, you aren't going to do very much. Same thing against vehicles: you're removing ~6 HP per turn against AV 10, ~3 HP against AV 11, and can't even roll dice against AV 12. So against most vehicles if you can get into rear armor (and vector dancer really helps here) you can almost guarantee a kill, but if you can't do that (or have a target with good rear armor) your Vulture is a useless paperweight.

The Fire Raptor is expensive like most C:SM units, but it has ridiculous quality of shooting. You have tons of low-strength high-AP shots for MEQs, enough volume of fire to put a dent in hordes (especially if you take the quad HB side guns), and you make MCs cry. Against vehicles you have some of the Vulture's problem, with a higher "can't even roll dice" threshold balanced out by not having vector dancer and those easy shots against rear armor. On the other hand, you kind of have to compare the Fire Raptor to a pair of Vultures, and then it's a little more uncertain whether the huge price tag is worth it.

So I guess the final answer depends on what you expect to face most often. If you're worried about tough infantry/MC targets or need AA that can hurt flyers without needing shots against rear AV 10 get the Fire Raptor. If you want a good generalist get the Vulture. One thing to keep in mind though is that the Fire Raptor (like the other Storm Raven variants) is notoriously difficult to assemble, while the Vulture is easier than most plastic kits.

Ok, thanks for the analysis. I feel like I'd be better off with the Vulture, then, as It's in my primary Force Org Chart, and my modeling skills aren't partially good, and I might get a Stormraven or Vendetta for dealing with high AV fliers.

Vector Dancer helps alleviate the problem the Vendetta has of only shooting like twice per game, and it sorta melts hordes.

As for my original question, should I model a Stormraven with Assault Cannons or Lascannons on the turret?

Heir of the Void wrote:
Also, If I get a Stormraven, which I think I will, should I model it with Assault Cannons or Lascannons? I don't really feel confidant enough in my modeling skills to magnetize them, and I'm not really sure which one is better.

If you're using the multi-melta, then you want the Assault Cannon. The AC out-damages the Lascannon in almost every scenario, and it's only downside is the inability to get Explodes results (which is easily covered by the MM), and it's short range (which also synergizes well with the MM). If you're using a Tyhphoon ML, then the Lascannon might be a good choice since it will give you the option to shoot your two main weapons from 48" away. You actually don't need to magnetize the Lascannon or AC sponsons - you can take them off and put them on pretty easily.

So If I decide to do a Forge World Order, should I go for a Fire Rapor or a Vulture.

I don't know much about the Vulture, but the Fire Raptor is a great flyer. One thing to note is that the Fire Raptor is at it's core an anti-infantry and anti-light-armor flyer, and so fills a very different role on the battlefield than the Stormraven or Vendetta (which are primarily anti-armor).

That is a good analysis.

I would magnetize. It is ridiculously easy to magnetize the turret weapons.

Heir of the Void wrote:

Also, If I get a Stormraven, which I think I will, should I model it with Assault Cannons or Lascannons? I don't really feel confidant enough in my modeling skills to magnetize them, and I'm not really sure which one is better.

Get confident in your modelling skill, magnetizing is really important

Zsolt wrote:

Heir of the Void wrote:

Also, If I get a Stormraven, which I think I will, should I model it with Assault Cannons or Lascannons? I don't really feel confidant enough in my modeling skills to magnetize them, and I'm not really sure which one is better.

Get confident in your modelling skill, magnetizing is really important

Fair enough. Any tips or good sites that could tell me how to get started with that?

I can say you don't actually need to magnetise the Stormraven turret. The weapons are held just by the attaching pin, which is very useful

Heir of the Void wrote:

Zsolt wrote:

Heir of the Void wrote:

Also, If I get a Stormraven, which I think I will, should I model it with Assault Cannons or Lascannons? I don't really feel confidant enough in my modeling skills to magnetize them, and I'm not really sure which one is better.

Get confident in your modelling skill, magnetizing is really important

Fair enough. Any tips or good sites that could tell me how to get started with that?

Drill a hole, try not to mess up facing, insert super glue, insert magnet. It's not that hard

Search around the internetz for "magnetise" "my favorite kit" and you'll get some tutorials with pictures/videos.

You can get cheap magnets from china ($3 for 100 piece), so you can try them out for low price.