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So let's have another one of these.

Looking at what some people say and write, they usually mark that no factions in the 40K Universe would ally ever ("Blood Angels were being wiped out and didn't want help from that almighty force just waiting below their feet? Hell Yes!"), even when it would make sense to skip on the dogma for a spell and think pragmatially about the prospect, and that their faction can hold out alone against all the other forces of the galaxy. I feel that is groxdung - We are in a galaxy where everyone want a place in the sun, and while most are very nationalistic and keep to themselves, they got to be able to see the benefit of helping each other, at least for a while. I've always wondered why there's no pre-Great War-like allying going on between the factions, as the ragnarok-scenario that will end everything ever is very visibly approaching.

So, if we take off our grimdark glasses and look at the situation with a sense of logic, who would you think could ally, if only temporily, in the Ending Times? To me, the Necrons, Tau and especially Eldar are prime candidates to gang up - Not in their entirety, but at a planet/empire/craftworld basis. Nemesor Zahndrekh's empire should be very happy to ally against another, greater threat (Tyranids and Chaos, mostly - Necrons hate those gits), and Tau are very welcoming towards people who might seem happy with the Greater Good - They know that you can't win people over in a few years, so a simple allied force is a plus to them. Eldar? Who the feth knows with them

Imperium is really the catalyst here, I feel. Where some factions have no problem teaming up against a greater threat, Imperium of Man is just so... Illogical. Especially the religious and the nobles don't know that this might be the way to go, while the people in the mud (Space Marines in some cases, Imperial Guard and so on...) have less of a problem with allying.

Sense?! Logic?! ALLYING WITH FILTHY XENOS?! I declare this thread a work of heresy!

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Sense?! Logic?! ALLYING WITH FILTHY XENOS?! I declare this thread a work of heresy!

Sweet, pragmatic heresy

The Imperium is stupid on so many levels. In fact, I would say that stupidity is the Imperium's most abundant resource. If they had any sense they would try to ally with the Eldar so that they could find joint solutions to the galaxy's greatest problems. But no, because they are Xenos and that means they should be destroyed.

I don't think they should ally with the Necrons or Tau, though. The Necrons are killer alien robots who want nothing more than to scour the galaxy of life and reestablish their Empire so they can't be trusted. The Tau are subversive little jerks that'll offer one hand in friendship while the other will turn your border worlds against you. Their idea of Manifest Destiny is one of their core beliefs. Given that they are such a small power the Tau are more trouble than they are worth.

Blood Angels just need to call their best pals, the Necrons.

Eldar - Imperial forces is definitely going to happen in case of a Chaos invasion.

While it is true that most of the Imperials are just downright idiots, many of the Imperials are more than willing to ally when in a tight spot. Blood Angels ally with Necrons when 'Nids are breathing down their necks, Eldar could no doubt manipulate them into an alliance, the Imperial Guard are just soldiers with weak faith; they could easily be convinced to ally with aliens if it meant their survival. Space Marines are the ones who are really difficult to get to ally; mostly because of the rigorous brainwashing that most of them go through during training.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Imperium is stupid on so many levels. In fact, I would say that stupidity is the Imperium's most abundant resource. If they had any sense they would try to ally with the Eldar so that they could find joint solutions to the galaxy's greatest problems. But no, because they are Xenos and that means they should be destroyed.

I don't think they should ally with the Necrons or Tau, though. The Necrons are killer alien robots who want nothing more than to scour the galaxy of life and reestablish their Empire so they can't be trusted. The Tau are subversive little jerks that'll offer one hand in friendship while the other will turn your border worlds against you. Their idea of Manifest Destiny is one of their core beliefs. Given that they are such a small power the Tau are more trouble than they are worth.

Don't forget the Eldar aren't exactly the easiest people to get along with and they will gladly sell out or exterminate any other race if it suits their own needs. Ultimately, from the Eldar's point of view, at this point, the other races likely ARE the galaxy's greatest problems.

 Coldstream wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Imperium is stupid on so many levels. In fact, I would say that stupidity is the Imperium's most abundant resource. If they had any sense they would try to ally with the Eldar so that they could find joint solutions to the galaxy's greatest problems. But no, because they are Xenos and that means they should be destroyed.

I don't think they should ally with the Necrons or Tau, though. The Necrons are killer alien robots who want nothing more than to scour the galaxy of life and reestablish their Empire so they can't be trusted. The Tau are subversive little jerks that'll offer one hand in friendship while the other will turn your border worlds against you. Their idea of Manifest Destiny is one of their core beliefs. Given that they are such a small power the Tau are more trouble than they are worth.

Don't forget the Eldar aren't exactly the easiest people to get along with and they will gladly sell out or exterminate any other race if it suits their own needs. Ultimately, from the Eldar's point of view, at this point, the other races likely ARE the galaxy's greatest problems.

No, the main problem is that the Eldar have their heads so far up their own arses that they never think that maybe informing the Inquisition of the Chaotic threat on a planet before they exterminatus it/genocide the people on it might be a good idea. Frankly the Imperium probably wouldn't mind losing a couple million or billion people if they learned that the Eldar were simply doing them a favor and stopping Chaos taint. Plus Eldar can also hyperbole the story.

Also, both the Imperium and Eldar need to ally with each other if they're going to have a chance in hell of surviving the coming storm with Chaos coming from one side, and the Nids from the other.

It's not always the Imperium's fault in regards to the Eldar. The Eldar have attacked the Imperium FIRST on several occassions, sometimes of which the fluff hasn't even revealed to the reader, leaving the Imperium (and the reader) wondering "What the fk was THAT for?"

Elder also tend to come down hard on humans who colonize abandoned Eldar Maiden worlds even when those worlds were empty when the humans got there.

That said, the Imperium and the Eldar do ally from time to time, anyways. So I'm not really sure where this "They're stupid because they don't ally with the Eldar!" vibe is coming from. Because they DO ally with the Eldar sometimes.

It's notable that the Tau and the Necrons both attacked the Imperium first, too (the Tau via annexation and politique rather than direct physical violence, but still an attack all the same). Hell, there technically isn't a single playable non-Imperial faction that the Imperium attacked first, come to think about it. Admittingly the Imperium probably would have attacked several of them, like the Tau, first if they got the opportunity, but whatever.

There are examples of the Eldar trying to warn the Imperium against doing things that would cause trouble with Chaos. Usually it is when the Imperium is excavating or disturbing artifacts that should not be touched. However the Imperium often ignores these warnings because they are coming from xenos and probably because the Eldar come off as arrogant and do not really explain the reasoning behind their warning. When the warning gets ignored, then the Eldar feel the humans are either corrupted already or dangerously stupid and about to unleash things they know nothing about, resulting in the Eldar attacking. The problem however is that if the Eldar are successful and stop the humans, it gets chalked up by the Imperium as random unprovoked Eldar attack.

Another, very important thing I feel we should remember is that a lot of these factions aren't one and the same. Tau are basically the only faction here that's the same all the way through - The rest are divided and different in many different ways. An Eldar from Beil-Tann wouldn't ally with any other, especially not Imperial forces, in a display of hubris, but Saim-Hann Eldar wouldn't care much, as their ways are less, eh, "civilised" than other Eldar.

People still seem to think that Necrons are insane murderbots who want nothing but conquest and destruction, where that isn't true at all - Sure, some of their leaders are either insane, mindless or a combination of the two, but a good load of them have both ethics and morals, fight with dignity and honour and see that there's bigger things than conquest out there (Chaos and Tyranids, mainly, who both are pretty fricking dangerous to anyone) - For example, Anakyr the Traveller is rather honourable, and is only really ruthless of somebody tries to destroy his Tomb Worlds. In fact, in a shortstory where he captures a colonel for Illuminor Seraz (The torture guy), he simply kills the colonel instead of handing him to the Illuminor, even though the human had been an ass to him, saving him from something worse than death. There's also Zahndrekh of course, who's just insane but quite a nice guy, and others like Trazyn, who's not really into all that fighty stuff. On top of that, the actual leader of the Empire, the Silent King, has set the race up to save the galaxy from the Tyranids in the hope that there'll be something left for them afterwards.

Don't get me wrong, the races are in it for themselves, but who wouldn't be? The thing is that, while you might not want to help someone else, if that action canmake you survive for a bit longer and maybe strengthen you, who cares for the methods? Imperials have shown time and time again that it's only the goal that matters - How you got there and how many people killed doesn't matter

"The Eldar are as likely to fight against the Imperium as it is to ally with its forces. However, in a hostile universe even the keenest of rivals must sometimes make common cause." ~ Codex: Imperial Guard 2nd edition (ally section)

A lot of n00bs tend to discount second edition stuff as totally obsolete but that's not accurate, the 'core' of the setting that GW copy-pastes to this day was already in place back then. And back then the only Imperial army that couldn't ally with the Eldar was the Dark Angels, but they wouldn't ally with abhumans either. When GW removed ally rules with 3rd edition they removed the 'day to day' exposure to the associated fluff, but it's still in there.

The current allies matrix has Eldar set as allies of convenience. That's pretty much expected and fitting for the fluff, really (after all, sure you'd work with the Eldar for the sake of survival, but letting that random fickle xenos elf cast a psychic buff on you would be a bit too much)

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Coldstream wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Imperium is stupid on so many levels. In fact, I would say that stupidity is the Imperium's most abundant resource. If they had any sense they would try to ally with the Eldar so that they could find joint solutions to the galaxy's greatest problems. But no, because they are Xenos and that means they should be destroyed.

I don't think they should ally with the Necrons or Tau, though. The Necrons are killer alien robots who want nothing more than to scour the galaxy of life and reestablish their Empire so they can't be trusted. The Tau are subversive little jerks that'll offer one hand in friendship while the other will turn your border worlds against you. Their idea of Manifest Destiny is one of their core beliefs. Given that they are such a small power the Tau are more trouble than they are worth.

Don't forget the Eldar aren't exactly the easiest people to get along with and they will gladly sell out or exterminate any other race if it suits their own needs. Ultimately, from the Eldar's point of view, at this point, the other races likely ARE the galaxy's greatest problems.

No, the main problem is that the Eldar have their heads so far up their own arses that they never think that maybe informing the Inquisition of the Chaotic threat on a planet before they exterminatus it/genocide the people on it might be a good idea. Frankly the Imperium probably wouldn't mind losing a couple million or billion people if they learned that the Eldar were simply doing them a favor and stopping Chaos taint. Plus Eldar can also hyperbole the story.

Also, both the Imperium and Eldar need to ally with each other if they're going to have a chance in hell of surviving the coming storm with Chaos coming from one side, and the Nids from the other.

Why should the Inquisition believe the Eldar, who are known to be duplicitous and treacherous?

I mean, the Eldar could be like "Watch this, guys.... *ahem* Oh, Mon'Keigh of the Inquisition of Mankind, did you know that your planet there possesses an ancient relic of Chaos, buried in the heart of its greatest city?"

So the Inquisition goes off and expends vast sums of resources and time investigating this supposed relic while Eldar Corsairs ransack the shipping lanes of the sub-sector.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Coldstream wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Imperium is stupid on so many levels. In fact, I would say that stupidity is the Imperium's most abundant resource. If they had any sense they would try to ally with the Eldar so that they could find joint solutions to the galaxy's greatest problems. But no, because they are Xenos and that means they should be destroyed.

I don't think they should ally with the Necrons or Tau, though. The Necrons are killer alien robots who want nothing more than to scour the galaxy of life and reestablish their Empire so they can't be trusted. The Tau are subversive little jerks that'll offer one hand in friendship while the other will turn your border worlds against you. Their idea of Manifest Destiny is one of their core beliefs. Given that they are such a small power the Tau are more trouble than they are worth.

Don't forget the Eldar aren't exactly the easiest people to get along with and they will gladly sell out or exterminate any other race if it suits their own needs. Ultimately, from the Eldar's point of view, at this point, the other races likely ARE the galaxy's greatest problems.

No, the main problem is that the Eldar have their heads so far up their own arses that they never think that maybe informing the Inquisition of the Chaotic threat on a planet before they exterminatus it/genocide the people on it might be a good idea. Frankly the Imperium probably wouldn't mind losing a couple million or billion people if they learned that the Eldar were simply doing them a favor and stopping Chaos taint. Plus Eldar can also hyperbole the story.

Also, both the Imperium and Eldar need to ally with each other if they're going to have a chance in hell of surviving the coming storm with Chaos coming from one side, and the Nids from the other.

Why should the Inquisition believe the Eldar, who are known to be duplicitous and treacherous?

I mean, the Eldar could be like "Watch this, guys.... *ahem* Oh, Mon'Keigh of the Inquisition of Mankind, did you know that your planet there possesses an ancient relic of Chaos, buried in the heart of its greatest city?"

So the Inquisition goes off and expends vast sums of resources and time investigating this supposed relic while Eldar Corsairs ransack the shipping lanes of the sub-sector.

This is more due to the problem of the Imperium believing everyone lives on a planet of hats.

Well... they aren't wrong, though. I mean, certain Craftworlds are known for certain things, to the point that they are, really, Craftworld of Hats.

That's just how GW writes the setting. Shoot, that's the whole Forge World/Hive World/Agri World/Death World divisions and all that... can a world not be *both* a Hive World, with massive cities housing billions, but also using all the land between the massive cities as massive, sealed bio-domes for agricultural production?

Can a Forge World not also be a Death World?

The whole setting is predicated on Planet of Hats.

Needs more jokareos....

But as an actual tempoarity ally grounded in reallity? probably Tau. sure they will probably keep spouting about there greater good at the dinner table but as they are the smallest power for now, they will likely be the first to accept pretty much anything.

Eldar will probably join as well though reluctantly beacuse space racists double mon keighs

Necrons will probably be a no go period. (i dont believe in new crons)

Orks are a wild card. honestly have no clue how that would go.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well... they aren't wrong, though. I mean, certain Craftworlds are known for certain things, to the point that they are, really, Craftworld of Hats.

That's just how GW writes the setting. Shoot, that's the whole Forge World/Hive World/Agri World/Death World divisions and all that... can a world not be *both* a Hive World, with massive cities housing billions, but also using all the land between the massive cities as massive, sealed bio-domes for agricultural production?

Can a Forge World not also be a Death World?

The whole setting is predicated on Planet of Hats.

Except a Craftworld is neither responsible, nor tends to really give a damn about Corsairs mucking about, nor are involved in their business.

Ehm.... we're talking about 2 different things here. The Eldar in my original depiction may or may not be part of a Craftworld... an Ordo Malleus or Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor may not know the difference between the different kinds of Eldar anyway.

Also, the Craftworlds are often protected by fleets of Corsairs. Or simply by their own naval assets, which will engage in acts of piracy and raiding, as suits the needs of the Craftworld, and Eldar come and go from the Craftworlds, the paths of the Corsair, and the paths of the Dark Eldar on a frequent basis. Of course the Craftworlds have truck with the Corsairs.

Another way to look at this is what an Ally really means.

In game terms, it means 2 armies can fight together without shooting each other up. The different levels of allies tell us how closely they are willing to work together.

We have plenty of references in the fluff about SMs working with IG / AM working with SB working with GK working with Inquisitors, etc. It's not like these forces are close, it's just that they can operate jointly without killing one another.

With CSMs, CDs and CSMs used to be part of the same Codex. It makes sense they would work together and sometimes not.

I am sure all of these factions would have various political dramas that would prevent them from being true allies who work together as part of a common agenda. I am equally sure there is no mechanism for representing it in the game.

TiamatRoar wrote:
It's not always the Imperium's fault in regards to the Eldar. The Eldar have attacked the Imperium FIRST on several occassions, sometimes of which the fluff hasn't even revealed to the reader, leaving the Imperium (and the reader) wondering "What the fk was THAT for?"

Elder also tend to come down hard on humans who colonize abandoned Eldar Maiden worlds even when those worlds were empty when the humans got there.

That said, the Imperium and the Eldar do ally from time to time, anyways. So I'm not really sure where this "They're stupid because they don't ally with the Eldar!" vibe is coming from. Because they DO ally with the Eldar sometimes.

It's notable that the Tau and the Necrons both attacked the Imperium first, too (the Tau via annexation and politique rather than direct physical violence, but still an attack all the same). Hell, there technically isn't a single playable non-Imperial faction that the Imperium attacked first, come to think about it. Admittingly the Imperium probably would have attacked several of them, like the Tau, first if they got the opportunity, but whatever.

Well, they were going to exterminatus the Tau homeworld when they first discovered it (when they had only just discovered how to use fire), but then the warpstorm formed around it and when it finally cleared they had their massive empire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldar will ally with many factions when it comes to fighting the powers of Chaos. They will (even if it is begrudgingly) ally with Tau, IG, SM (If they agree, which they may not, Xenos scum).

Also, in lore the craftworld Eldar absolutely despise the Dark Eldar, but they seem to have some sort of pact, or treaty where they do not attack each other (probably because Eldar souls are too valuable to waste that way).