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I want to build a Chaos Space Marine armylist from the Dark Vengeance box and expand it. I dont want to go down the competetive Nurgle netlist route, just want to collect a CSM army and cherrypick some of its unique units and also end up with an army that has sufficient anti-infantry, anti-tank etc. firepower.

So what I have so far are:

1 Chaos HQ with sword (I think this can either be played as a Chaos Lord or even as a Chaos Sorceror)

6 Chaos Chosen with WYSIWYG weapon loadout (thus not very effective and quite expensive, but in cc they are quite decent I think).

1 Vrosh Tattersoul (can also use him as Chosen with power axe)

10 Cultists with autopistol, cc-weapons & flamer

10 Cultists with autoguns, 1 shotgun & heavy stubber

1 Helbrute w. Multi-melta

So I've totaled up all the points and from all of the above I can theoretically make a 500 points list and also squeeze in a Rhino.

Expanding my CSM force with a Chaos Rhino is IMO the first thing I need to do because the Chosen are only effective in their current configuration if taken to the enemy inside a Rhino or LR, the latter IMO I'm not going to be buying.

Next my idea is to expand to a 1000 point force and the following three units come to my mind:

Defiler (for a solid 4HP IWND 5++ firing platform that delivers 72" big blast S8 AP3 ordnance, and I'll give it a heavy flamer so it can hold its own if assaulted by infiltrating/deep-striking enemies as well)

and then:

a Maulerfiend

and

Heldrake with Baleflamer


This way at 1000 points my army would have a flyer that can roast anything but tanks or the heaviest infantry, AP3 pie plate ordnance, a sorceror and chosen aboard a rhino to wipe out stragglers, a walker with multi-melta and maulerfiend projecting zones of vehicle area denial around them as they walk up the board; and a total of 4 vehicles, 3 of which are pretty tough due to daemonic possession.

Thoughts?

If you want one Maulerfiend you need two of them. One is just going to die and since it is likely going to be charging tanks, the thing it wants to kill is the thing that's going to kill it. Two reduces that possibility. Not sure if there's a Maulerfiend formation but look into it because they do take up valuable slots..

Every source says that Defilers aren't good enough for their points. Low armor, no guarantee they'll survive a single Lascannon shot. All it takes is one and so on, but on paper they're fairly fun.

I would drop the Chosen altogether just because they're modelled with those bad weapons. If you like the idea of Chosen, look at Cypher as well. He gives Infiltrate to them so they MIGHT actually make it in combat and he is a good unit himself.

The Crimson Slaughter supplement gives some good Warlord Traits and the Relics on the DV Lord. I'm not sure about all the rules involved but I think that if he joins the Chosen squad with Cypher you have a pretty good beat stick unit. Even better if you can manage to get them in a Land Raider upfield.

In order of importance for what I'm thinking your level of fun is, I'd say go for 2 Maulerfiends, the Heldrake and then maybe the Defiler. Even if it means sacrificing the Chosen. A different Marine troop, the Noise Marines with their big sonic gun midfield, might be a better investment in lower point games.

I'd take a black mace mace Nurgle DP along with a maulerfiend and a baledrake, if you want an assault army. Otherwise, a buffed out lord and Spawn.

If you want a shooty army, I'd add in a vindicator, a forgefiend and obliterators.

Chosen are a pretty bad point sink. Sure they're flexible and extremely powerful, but for their points you can bring a lot more bodies to the table. Bring Huron if you are going to even try chosen these days, and make sure you keep the cultists running as screens. Honestly, I think you're better off buying a box or two of chaos marines and using the chosen as aspiring champions for them. This will let you bring heavier ranged weapons which are pretty important if you intend on running an assault list. Also, you'll see a lot of flak on here about hellbrutes and dreadnoughts, but for a newer player they are really flexible. You can easily run the DV helbrute as having a heavy flame coming from the mouth in that power claw as well. You really need to just play a few games and feel out how you want to play. Chaos spawn are great distraction units that can tie up and murder enemy ranged units in assault for reasonable point costs. As far as HQ go I say throw a sorceror in there for warp fun,.

Most CSM players have had similar thoughts about what they would do to expand the forces that come with DV. The armies are so paltry, it's hard not to think about how to build them out.

Defilers are expensive for their points and don't have the AV to justify calling them 'solid.' You might want to think about getting them something to improve their saving throws, like a Sorcerer or a Skyshield landing pad.

Sorry, but I don't see Maulerfiends as being very valuable. I have seen too many games where they get blowed up just before they can charge. You might want to rethink this one, a popular alternative is Obliterators.

Heldrakes are never a bad choice.

Have you heard about IA:13 and all the wonderful things it does for CSM armies? The DV lord looks really good next to a Sicaran Battle Tank, and a Fire Raptor is not much more expensive than a Heldrake.

Consider the reinforcement box - there's a black library dataslate (Kranon's Helguard) released today that represents that plus the Dark Vengeance chaos models in a formation, and gives them two awesome rules (plus one mediocre one)

a - all units gain fear. Meh - but occasionally useful
b - all unit gain stubborn. Very nice, as being killed after losing combat is an achilles heel of chaos marines, and stubborn cultis are a much better meat shield.
c - all units gain the unique rule swarm of phantasms. This gives any enemy within 12" of one unit -1 ld, and any enemy within 12" of two or more units -1 bs to boot...

locarno24 wrote:
Consider the reinforcement box - there's a black library dataslate (Kranon's Helguard) released today that represents that plus the Dark Vengeance chaos models in a formation, and gives them two awesome rules (plus one mediocre one)

a - all units gain fear. Meh - but occasionally useful
b - all unit gain stubborn. Very nice, as being killed after losing combat is an achilles heel of chaos marines, and stubborn cultis are a much better meat shield.
c - all units gain the unique rule swarm of phantasms. This gives any enemy within 12" of one unit -1 ld, and any enemy within 12" of two or more units -1 bs to boot...

That's very interesting. I assume this formation requires you to bring the Land Raider, the Terminators, the Warp Talons, etc?

Yep Kranon's Hellguard dataslate formation requires all the Chaos Marine units sold with the DV set and the DV expansion set. The best part is while it has "unit requirements", like a unit of raptors, and two units of cultists, it doesn't specify wargear or # of models in any of the above. So it gives you some variability, including the option to swap the kit on your Chosen.

To be fair, the models in the DV Crimson Slaughter Chaos expansion box are all pretty good ones as far as the CSM codex is concerned too. We've got sweet terminators because of their load-out and low price point, more (stubborn!) cultists is basically just a good thing, raptors are good and a Land Raider is a Land Raider, not to mention an assault vehicle.

PLUS the models in the Crimson Slaughter expansion come at a serious discount, which is hard to find from GW.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Crimson-Slaughter-DV#

I'm going to throw something out there for you to consider.

Sorcerer lvl 2 w/spell familiar, force sword (Krannon model): 100
Sorcerer lvl 1 w/ force staff (power maul model): 60

Cultists x 10 w/pistols: 50
Cultists x 10 w/autoguns: 60
Chaos Marines x 10 w/2x Flamer, ccw+pistol, champ w/power fist (power fist chosen): 175
Chaos Marines x 10 w/2x Melta, ccw+pistol, champ w/power axe (power axe chosen): 175

Chaos Raptors x5 w/2x Melta, champ w/2x lightning claws (dual claw chosen): 145

Chaos Havoks x5 w/3x Plasma, (bolter chosen): 120
Chaos Havoks x5 w/3x Heavy Bolters, (bolter chosen): 105

Just food for thought. I'm not pushing that list, but just as an example, there's 1000 points that uses all the DV models, just as centerpiece champions and HQ's instead of as a mismatched chosen squad. Again, it's only food for thought, but It only requires 3 boxes of Marines and one box of Raptors.

I ended up buying something like 6 sets of DV chosen off the swap shop for cheap and I convert them to my needs as Champions and any of the HQ choices.

Does this formation count as a combined arms detachment or do you have to buy two troops and a HQ to make this formation legal for CAD games?

DV chaos part screams for helcult. Helbrute and cultists. Fearless cultists are nice line-holders and can even push the mid board a bit. However, you'll need something to fill troops than. And it'd better be marines than extra cultists that ain't fearless imo. Helbrutes are just plain underwhelming if taken out of formation. But every one of them - helcult, mayhem and deepstriking one are really not bad. You'll need more helbrutes for the last 2 however.

Mellee chosen don't work in a rhino. They're fine in a landraider as a retinue but once again, they're better off with just a hidden power fist and probably a melta or two and nothing more.
However, if you ain't looking for a landraider, you can make them a plasma-wielding squad in a rhino. Especially effective with a preferred enemy upgrade for a champ if taken within crimson slaughter detachment.