Beloit Police Ask Residents To Volunteer To Have Their Homes Searched For Guns

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**Frazzled**

er....no.
http://www.wpr.org/beloit-police-ask-residents-volunteer-have-their-homes-searched-guns

Beloit Police Ask Residents To Volunteer To Have Their Homes Searched For Guns
Chief Of Police Says He Hopes Initiative Can Help Residents Begin Thinking Differently About Guns
Friday, December 5, 2014, 8:45pm
By Gilman Halsted
Share: ..Police in Beloit are launching a new effort to reduce gun violence in which they're asking city residents to volunteer to have police search their homes for guns.

Police Chief Norm Jacobs said he doesn't expect the phone to be ringing off the hook with requests for police to search their homes. He nevertheless hopes the program will encourage people to think about gun violence as an infectious disease like Ebola, and a home inspection like a vaccine to help build up the city's immune system.

"Gun violence is as serious as the Ebola virus is being represented in the media, and we should fight it using the tools that we've learned from our health providers,” he said.

Jacobs said he hopes some searches will result in the discovery of guns they didn't know were in their own homes. He said that there’s also a chance they’ll find guns linked to crimes.

“That's really what we're looking for,” he said. “Maybe we'll find a toy gun that's been altered by a youngster in the house — and we know the tragedies that can occur there on occasion.”

There have been seven gun homicides in Beloit this year. Four of the victims were teenagers or young men in their 20s — like Melisha Holloway's 20-year-old son Raymond, who was killed in April. Holloway said too many young men have given up on school.

“Pretty much all those kids and young men just need to be is educated,” said Holloway. “You have a lot of them that barely read at a fifth-grade level yet they're 25 year-old-men. But they know how to work a gun. There's something wrong with that picture."

This week, 20-year-old Jajuan Logan was sentenced to 12 years in prison for Holloway's murder.

Editor's Note: This article is part of a Wisconsin Public Radio year-long series tracking all gun-related homicides in Wisconsin.

...© Copyright 2014 by WPR.org and Wisconsin Public Radio. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

..

**VictorVonTzeentch**

That's a real special line of thinking they've got there.

**Kanluwen**

Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

**SilverMK2**

I would also suggest it is to get debate going and get people thinking about their own gun storage rather than with any expectation of finding Jnr's uzi and plans of the school.

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

Civil right of having a brain...
Here's the question. You've stupidly let the cops come in to "search." What if they find little Timmy's pot stash? WHat if they find yours? What if they do find a gun in little Timmy's room?
I hope you have bail money and can reconcile the fact you just gave your kid a rap sheet.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

Civil right of having a brain...
Here's the question. You've stupidly let the cops come in to "search." What if they find little Timmy's pot stash? WHat if they find yours? What if they do find a gun in little Timmy's room?
I hope you have bail money and can reconcile the fact you just gave your kid a rap sheet.

I have to agree, it was one of my first thoughts on the matter.

Also, what happens if there is a murder in the area and they come knocking asking if they can search your house? You say no, congratulations you're now one of the badguys to them and the public.

**Frazzled**

Also, what happens if there is a murder in the area and they come knocking asking if they can search your house? You say no, congratulations you're now one of the badguys to them and the public.

"Get a warrant." Closes door.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Frazzled wrote:

Also, what happens if there is a murder in the area and they come knocking asking if they can search your house? You say no, congratulations you're now one of the badguys to them and the public.

"Get a warrant." Closes door.

That's what I mean though. It's putting you (hypothetically) in a position where you are now looked at as a suspect, just because you want your rights to privacy. Its one of the reasons this concept is dumb in my opinion.

**Frazzled**

BrotherStynier wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

Also, what happens if there is a murder in the area and they come knocking asking if they can search your house? You say no, congratulations you're now one of the badguys to them and the public.

"Get a warrant." Closes door.

That's what I mean though. It's putting you (hypothetically) in a position where you are now looked at as a suspect, just because you want your rights to privacy. Its one of the reasons this concept is dumb in my opinion.

You should always assume the police view you as a suspect in any interaction.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Frazzled wrote:
BrotherStynier wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

Also, what happens if there is a murder in the area and they come knocking asking if they can search your house? You say no, congratulations you're now one of the badguys to them and the public.

"Get a warrant." Closes door.

That's what I mean though. It's putting you (hypothetically) in a position where you are now looked at as a suspect, just because you want your rights to privacy. Its one of the reasons this concept is dumb in my opinion.

You should always assume the police view you as a suspect in any interaction.

This is true.

**Ahtman**

Frazzled wrote:
Civil right of having a brain...

Wouldn't that mean considering the context and sometimes saying yes and sometimes saying no? Just always saying the same thing, either yes or no, doesn't really require much thinking.

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

Civil right of having a brain...
Here's the question. You've stupidly let the cops come in to "search." What if they find little Timmy's pot stash? WHat if they find yours? What if they do find a gun in little Timmy's room?
I hope you have bail money and can reconcile the fact you just gave your kid a rap sheet.

If you're doing your job as a parent, then there's no need for you to have contacted the cops in the first place to do one of these voluntary searches.

But I see you'd rather just get indignant and self-righteous, as per usual.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Kanluwen wrote:

If you're doing your job as a parent, then there's no need for you to have contacted the cops in the first place to do one of these voluntary searches.

But I see you'd rather just get indignant and self-righteous, as per usual.

Why not just insist that people be better parents from the start, rather than endorsing this concept? If anything this will help some of those parents that would rather not be parents weasel out of their responsibilities more.

"Why should I ask them or search their rooms? I can get the police to do it."

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Civil right of having a brain...

Wouldn't that mean considering the context and sometimes saying yes and sometimes saying no? Just always saying the same thing, either yes or no, doesn't really require much thinking.

Your post hurt my head!!!

**squidhills**

Frazzled wrote:

[A guy in an article said]

"Gun violence is as serious as the Ebola virus is being represented in the media, and we should fight it using the tools that we've learned from our health providers,” he said.

I'm confused, Frazzled (not an uncommon state for me to be in, but whatevs). After exactly 0 US citizens died from Ebola, is this Sheriff saying that gun violence *isn't* a problem at all? Since clearly, Ebola isn't a problem at all. Or is this Sheriff totally clueless about guns, violence, ebola, and long division?

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

Civil right of having a brain...
Here's the question. You've stupidly let the cops come in to "search." What if they find little Timmy's pot stash? WHat if they find yours? What if they do find a gun in little Timmy's room?
I hope you have bail money and can reconcile the fact you just gave your kid a rap sheet.

If you're doing your job as a parent, then there's no need for you to have contacted the cops in the first place to do one of these voluntary searches.

But I see you'd rather just get indignant and self-righteous, as per usual.

I see the jackboot defenders have arrived. Excellent.
Answer my questions. What happens when little Timmy goes to jail?
What if, when digging around, they find quantities of drugs sufficient to meet the level of dealer? Even if its from the previous owner? What are you going to do when they seize your house?

There is no way doing this ends well.

**MrDwhitey**

He said it's as serious as Ebola "is being represented in the media."

Considering how the media has represented it, he's basically just said guns are nuclear bombs all set to go off when children cough.

**Frazzled**

squidhills wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

[A guy in an article said]

"Gun violence is as serious as the Ebola virus is being represented in the media, and we should fight it using the tools that we've learned from our health providers,” he said.

I'm confused, Frazzled (not an uncommon state for me to be in, but whatevs). After exactly 0 US citizens died from Ebola, is this Sheriff saying that gun violence *isn't* a problem at all? Since clearly, Ebola isn't a problem at all. Or is this Sheriff totally clueless about guns, violence, ebola, and long division?

He wants to "vaccinate" you and your kids by taking them to jail. If you're stupid enough to do it, you shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

**squidhills**

MrDwhitey wrote:
He said it's as serious as Ebola "is being represented in the media."

Considering how the media has represented it, he's basically just said guns are nuclear bombs all set to go off when children cough.

After re-reading the article, I see that you are correct. I missed that bit originally, which makes my post 76% less clever than I thought it was.

I think I'll go off in a corner and sulk now, or something.

**Ouze**

MrDwhitey wrote:
Considering how the media has represented it, he's basically just said guns are nuclear bombs all set to go off when children cough.

He's not wrong.

**Jihadin**

Good Idea Fairy was overworked that day to come up with that

**Kanluwen**

Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Actually, I can see where they're going with this.

In some instances, you have these kinds of just random violence shootings where the parents or relatives or friends that someone is living with "have no idea how/when/why X got a gun".

The program is entirely voluntary, so you can't claim that civil rights are being violated.

Civil right of having a brain...
Here's the question. You've stupidly let the cops come in to "search." What if they find little Timmy's pot stash? WHat if they find yours? What if they do find a gun in little Timmy's room?
I hope you have bail money and can reconcile the fact you just gave your kid a rap sheet.

If you're doing your job as a parent, then there's no need for you to have contacted the cops in the first place to do one of these voluntary searches.

But I see you'd rather just get indignant and self-righteous, as per usual.

I see the jackboot defenders have arrived. Excellent.

Do you actually have anything productive to say beyond knee-jerk outrage?

No?

Answer my questions. What happens when little Timmy goes to jail?

Well, maybe you should have done a better job parenting.

What if, when digging around, they find quantities of drugs sufficient to meet the level of dealer? Even if its from the previous owner? What are you going to do when they seize your house?

There is no way doing this ends well.

Oh is this like the hypothetical where people get put into FEMA death camps?

**ScootyPuffJunior**

So wait a minute, is this one of those times were the police offer to do a voluntary service to their community to help stop an actual problem it's facing while attempting to reach out to the people they are sworn to serve, so that makes them jackbooted thugs trying to take away everyone's civil rights...?

Yet at the same time, these same police could be shooting twelve-year old kids, choking people to death, and beating the gak out of people in their custody and that's okay, because those people were "breaking the law" and deserved it, and hey- one less "thug" on the streets, right?

**VictorVonTzeentch**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
So wait a minute, is this one of those times were the police offer to do a voluntary service to their community to help stop an actual problem it's facing while attempting to reach out to the people they are sworn to serve, so that makes them jackbooted thugs trying to take away everyone's civil rights...?

Yet at the same time, these same police could be shooting twelve-year old kids, choking people to death, and beating the gak out of people in their custody and that's okay, because those people were "breaking the law" and deserved it, and hey- one less "thug" on the streets, right?

This is one of those times where doing their voluntary service can be misused as a means to find other illegal issues that may be going on in the house and arresting people over that, with out having had a proper reason to suspect the person and then obtaining a warrant to search.

It could theoretically be used as a loop hole to get around Illegal Searches, because they were given the right to search the house.

**Easy E**

Police are really good at getting people to voluntarily give up their rights.

What happens if you volunteer to have your house searched for guns and they find "other" stuff?

**Frazzled**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
So wait a minute, is this one of those times were the police offer to do a voluntary service to their community to help stop an actual problem it's facing while attempting to reach out to the people they are sworn to serve, so that makes them jackbooted thugs trying to take away everyone's civil rights...?

Yet at the same time, these same police could be shooting twelve-year old kids, choking people to death, and beating the gak out of people in their custody and that's okay, because those people were "breaking the law" and deserved it, and hey- one less "thug" on the streets, right?

What actual problem?

When they arrest your kids BECAUSE YOU JUST WAIVED YOUR 4th AMENDMENT RIGHTS how is that helping?

**ScootyPuffJunior**

BrotherStynier wrote:
This is one of those times where doing their voluntary service can be misused as a means to find other illegal issues that may be going on in the house and arresting people over that, with out having had a proper reason to suspect the person and then obtaining a warrant to search.

It could theoretically be used as a loop hole to get around Illegal Searches, because they were given the right to search the house.

And your logical fallacy is...

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

Well, maybe you should have done a better job parenting.

So instead of answering my questions, you sidestep. A better job parenting would be not to let the police int he house in the first place-you know NOT VIOLATING your kid's rights under the 4th Amendment.

You do know the police will in fact seize houses under the property forfeiture laws related to drugs don't you? I mean I know you're not a fan of that Bill fo Rights thing, but you should at least be slightly versed in the relavant law and practices before advising someone on the efficacy of doing something so monumentally stupid as this.

I'm not faulting the cops. To them they are seizing illegal items and putting bad guys in jail. You just happen to be the bad guy.

**Peregrine**

I believe this is relevant:

**Laemos**

How does law abiding people need to volunteer to be searched make us safer?