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1850 Competitive - Pentyrant Tyranids vs AV13 Necrons - ETC Missions (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Have Tyranids finally met their match in Necrons?
No. It's still too many flyrants for Necrons to handle.
Draw. The strengths of each army cancel out.
Yes. Having their devourers nullified will hurt the Tyranid's chances. Necron resiliency takes it.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

So I am running a gauntlet of tests against my Pentyrant Tyranid list to see if there is a matchup that may be problematic for them. So far, I have had 2 games with them. The first was against Grant and his Eldar:

1850 Competitive - Jy2's Pentyrant Tyranids vs Eldar w/Tyrannic War Veterans

The second game was against an army much more suited to give my Tyranids a much tougher fight - Spam Adam and his Skyfiring Tau:

1850 Competitive - Jy2's Pentyrant Tyranids vs Spam Adam's Skyfire Tau

Now this battle is what I feel is another problem matchup for my Tyranids....my very own AV13-spam Tournament Necrons. Yes, this is going to be a self-test game as no one else in my area runs Necrons like I do. So why will Necrons potentially give Tyranids problems?

  • Tyranids are not terribly efficient against AV13, at least not when it is spammed. Their main weapons, the S6 brainleech devourers, are mostly invalidated against such an army. The only weapon that they can really rely on are their electroshock grubs.

  • My Necrons have enough tesla to deal with massed flyers, even if they are FMC's.

  • My Necrons have the firepower and mobility to efficiently take out the MSU elements of most other armies.

  • A few people in my other 2 reports brought up the subject of how my Pentyrant Tyranids do so well because the BAO format favors them. I, on the other hand, am confident that Pentyrant bugs can do well in almost any format so for this game, I will be using the ETC missions to see how they will do under other mission formats. Now keep in mind that I am not going with the complete ETC format. I am still using BAO lists, but I am just running them with the ETC missions instead of the BAO missions.

    So for this experiment, I will be testing 2 things - how my Pentyrants will fare against another potentially tough matchup, AV13 Necrons, and how my Pentyrant will do in another tournament format, the ETC.

    Report will be coming out this weekend.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    1850 Pentyrant Tyranids vs AV13 Necrons


    1850 Hive Fleet Pandora

    Primary detachment:

    Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs, Fighter Ace (Warlord)
    Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

    Lictor
    Lictor
    Lictor

    3x Rippers - Deepstrike
    3x Rippers - Deepstrike

    Mawloc

    Void Shield Generator - 3x Void Shields

    Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment:

    Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
    Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
    Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

    Malanthrope

    1x Mucolid
    1x Mucolid
    1x Mucolid



    1850 Necrons with Necron Allies

    Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge w/Tesla Cannon
    Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge w/Tesla Cannon
    2x Storm-teks (Haywire Cryptek)

    5x Warriors - Gauss, Night Scythe
    5x Warriors - Gauss, Night Scythe

    1x Tomb Blade
    1x Tomb Blade
    1x Tomb Blade

    Annihilation Barge - Tesla Cannon
    Annihilation Barge - Tesla Cannon
    Annihilation Barge - Tesla Cannon


    Necron Allies: (Note - self-allies legal with BAO list building)

    Overlord - 2+/3++, MSS, ResOrb, Warscythe, Catacomb Command Barge w/Tesla Cannon
    1x Storm-tek

    5x Warriors - Gauss, Night Scythe

    Annihilation Barge - Tesla Cannon


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Missions: ETC Mission 1


    Objective #1: Big Guns Never Tire - 5 Objectives (3-pts each)


    Objective #2: Maelstrom of War


    Objective #3: Victory Points


    Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord


    Basically, the win conditions for the ETC missions is whoever has the highest Total Victory Points. Total VP's = Objective #1 + Objective #2 + Objective #3 (the difference only) + Tertiary Objectives. After you get the totals for both parties, compare the totals on a chart and you will get your overall score.

    For more info on the ETC missions, you can find them here: European Team Championships – 2014 Mission Packet


    Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


    1st Turn: Tyranids


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

    Spoiler:
    For my Pre-game, I am going to go with the good, old Top 10 Reasons.


    Top 10 Reasons Why Necrons Will Win.

    1. AV13 renders S6 Brainleech Devourers practically useless. Tyranids need to go for rear shots or they lose half of their offense.

    2. Tesla Destructors do very bad things to flyers. Even snap-shooting, they average just about as many hits as if shooting normally.

    3. Bargelords are bad news. If he gets into combat with a flyrant (or any of the Tyranid units here for that matter), that will be 1 dead bug.

    4. Bargelords are nigh unkillable. Event if you kill one, he gets back up 50% of the time.

    5. Necrons are super-mobile, arguably even more mobile than FMC Tyranids. They have the ability to get to Tyranid ground units no matter where they come in.

    6. Necrons have a much stronger ground presence than Tyranids. They should be able to outlast Tyranid ground units.

    7. Necrons are going 2nd. They have the final say on objectives.

    8. Tomb blades are much under-rated. They may give up kill points, but in the ETC format, they can very much help crons to get those 2-VP Maelstrom objectives.

    9. Necrons are a more balanced army. While the main focus of Tyranids offensively are in 6 units (flyrants + mawloc) out of 15 units, Necrons will have offense coming from 10 of its 16 units. Offensively, they are a much more balanced army. They are also the more resilient army.

    10. I've never seen a finer general than the guy who is running Necrons here.


    Top 10 Reasons Why Tyranids Will Win.

    1. Electroshock grubs are the best weapons to deal with AV13. Tyranids will reliably take down 1 vehicle - whether annihilation barge or bargelord - a turn with it. And that's not including any devourer shots to the rear.

    2. Necron flyers will be history against that many flyrants.

    3. Flyrant Overwatch can potentially be very deadly to bargelords.

    4. Tyranids have 1st turn and the alpha-strike. They are almost guaranteed to get First Blood.

    5. Void Shield Generator will give flyrants some protection against tesla shooting. It'll probably take 2 tesla units to eat through the void shields.

    6. Malanthrope bubble will help a lot against Necron shooting. Necrons will have problems against FMC's with 2+ cover.

    7. While Tyranid support units won't outlast Necrons, they are very good at getting Maelstrom objectives on the turn when you need them.

    8. This is Big Guns. Necrons have 4 Heavy Supports. Tyranids, only 1.

    9. Tyranids can cast their psychic powers almost at will. Necrons can generally do nothing about it.

    10. The general of Tyranids may arguably be one of the best generals I have ever faced.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    DEPLOYMENT:

    Spoiler:
    Warlord Traits:

    Necrons - Stealth + Move Through Cover in Ruins

    Tyranids - +1 Seize, Re-roll Reserves


    Psychic Powers:

    Flyrant #1 - Onslaught, Catalyst, +1 Wound (Warlord)
    Flyrant #2 - Onslaught, Paroxysm
    Flyrant #3 - Onslaught, Horror
    Flyrant #4 - Onslaught, Warp Blast
    Flyrant #5 - Horrot, Psychic Scream



    Necron deployment . Skimmers spread out.


    2 of the tomb blades deploy as well, hiding all the way in the back.


    Tyranid deployment. All 5 flyrants deploy within range of both the malanthrope and the Void Shield Generator (VSG).


    Overview of the Deployment phase.

    Necrons do not attempt to seize the initiative.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Tyranids 1

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    With regards to the Maelstrom Objectives, I played it somewhat differently from the actual ETC rules. I did use their Tactical Objectives. However, I did not see that this mission was Tactical Escalation. So the way I played it was just 2 Maelstrom Objectives a turn.

    Tyranids:

    1. Secure Objective #6.
    2. Kill 2 enemy units in the Assault phase for 2-VP's.



    Tyranids go full speed ahead.


    Warlord casts Catalyst. Both flyrants also Onslaught forwards to get into template range. The left flyrant takes 1W from Perils.

    They take off 2 Hull Points from the annihilation barge and force it to jink.


    The 3 right flyrants take out 1 AB with egrubs, getting First Blood in the process.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 0, Tyranids: 2 (Each annihilation barge = 2-VP's)

    Tyranids fail to get either of their Maelstrom objectives this turn. They do, however, get 1-VP for First Blood.

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 0, Tyranids: 1

    Tyranids then drop their Maelstorm Objective #2.




    Necrons 1

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Necrons:

    1. Secure Objective #2.
    2. Kill 1 enemy character.


    Now let me show you how to play against flyrants.


    I move all the Necron units behind the flyrants.


    The idea is this. Force them to land if they want to deal with the barges. If they land, then they are susceptible to assault by the bargelords. This way, you are forcing them to make a very tough choice. Either sacrifice on the offense to get into a better position to strike next turn, or go on the offensive now and prepare to get assaulted.


    Tomb blade turbo-boosts to the other side of my deployment zone.


    Focus-fire by the 3 annihilation barges (AB's) along with below-average saves kills off the Warp Blast flyrant.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 1, Tyranids: 2


    2 of the bargelords (to the right in the photo above) then move flat-out into Tyranid territory.

    Necrons get both of their Maelstrom objectives this turn. They have Objective #2 (maybe a bargelord) and they kill an enemy character (flyrant).

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 1




    Tyranids 2

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Tyranids:

    1. Secure Objective #6.
    2. Secure Objective #2.



    1 unit of rippers come in onto Objective #2.


    The other unit of rippers come in onto Objective #6.


    1 lictor and mucolid deepstrike into the ruins where Objective #1 is located (I don't need that objective currently).


    Another mucolid try to deepstrike in near Objective #3 but scatters.


    I'm a gambler at heart. I put all of the flyrants into gliding mode, making sure to keep them in Egrubs range of the AB's but as far away from the bargelords as possible.


    Warlord casts Catalyst but perils. The middle flyrant casts Paroxysm on the closest bargelord, reducing his WS and BS by 3, but perils as well. However, he would instead go into Super-Saiyan Level 3 God mode (rolls a 6 on the Perils table).


    Left flyrant finishes off another AB, but then one of the other flyrants rolls a for his egrubs haywire attack. The right AB manages to survive with 1HP remaining.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 1, Tyranids: 4

    Tyranids get both of their Maelstrom objectives this turn (rippers on Objectives #2 and #6).

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 3




    Necrons 2

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Necrons:

    1. Secure Objective #2.
    2. Need 1 scoring unit within 12" of opponent's table edge.



    2 Necron flyers come in.


    Bargelord goes after the rippers on Objective #2.

    That is why I don't hang back with my units. I need to push them forwards so that I can threaten enemy units in their deployment zones.


    Bargelord goes after flyrant.


    Both of them do.



    Both of the tomb blades turbo-boost towards the middle of the deployment zone on opposite flanks.


    The last tomb blade comes in from reserves and turbo-boost up the middle.

    I make a mistake here. I was thinking that I would take out the rippers on Objective #6 so that the tomb blade should be relatively safe....


    Necrons then focus all of their firepower on the Warlord flyrant. That is 2 night scythes and 2 AB's. They manage to drop him down to just 1W left (he started off with 5W due to Fighter Ace). Arcing also does 1W to the middle flyrant.


    Bargelord makes the assault against the right flyrant. However, he would take 2HP's of damage from the egrubs Wall of Death Overwatch.


    The other bargelord also makes the long charge against another flyrant (needed about 8" and rolled 10"). Egrubs overwatch takes off 1HP.


    Last but not least, the bargelord makes the charge against the rippers.


    Mindshackles go off and the flyrant inflicts 2W on himself. However, the bargelord whiffs his attacks due to being WS1 from Paroxysm.


    The other flyrant is slain from both Mindshackles and the bargelord's attacks.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 4


    Finally, the bargelord easily wipes out the rippers and take Objective #2. He is also within 12" of the Tyranid's deployment edge, giving Necrons both of their Maelstrom objectives.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 3, Tyranids: 4

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Tyranids: 3




    Tyranids 3

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Tyranids:

    1. Secure Objective #4.
    2. Secure Objective #5.



    Overview of the top of Turn 3.

    Things are not looking very rosy for Tyranids. They've already lost 2 flyrants. The Warlord is down to just 1W remaining, and a 4th flyrant is locked in combat with the bargelord. Now if he can pass his Mindshackle tests, he can potentially kill the bargelord. If not, then that's most likely going to be another dead flyrant.

    Tyranid have also got a decision to make. Should they join into combat with the bargelord in order to try to save the flyrant in combat, or should they go after the Necron flyers?

    I decide to leave the flyrant to the wolves and instead, go after the flyers.


    Last mucolid comes in.

    I use my Warlord trait to keep the lictors out.


    Mawloc pops up and lands directly on target, killing the tomb blade. He's also within range of Objective #4 (or will be after running).

    Kill Points - Necrons: 3, Tyranids: 5

    Ok, Tyranids are off to a good start already.


    Flyrants go back into Swooping mode.


    Lictor and mucolid moves.


    Rippers go after the middle tomb blade.


    Malanthrope moves to take Objective #5.


    Warlord flyrant casts Catalyst on the flyrant in combat. The lead flyrant perils while casting Paroxysm onto the bargelord in combat.


    Flyrants shoot at the flyers. One flyrant destroys the weapon and causes 2HP of damage on one. The other flyrant causes 2HP of damage to the other flyer as well as to force it to jink.

    Doh! I needed at least 1 flyer to go down. Instead, neither does.


    Rippers then assault. They take 1W from Overwatch....


    ....and then kill the lone tomb blade.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 3, Tyranids: 6


    Unfortunately, mindshackles go off again and the bargelord is able to finish off the flyrant.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 4, Tyranids: 6

    Tyranids get both Maelstrom objectives this turn - Objective #4 (mawloc after running) and #5 (malanthrope).

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Tyranids: 5




    Necrons 3

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Necrons:

    1. Destroy 2+ units in Assault for 2-VP's.
    2. Kill 1 enemy MC or vehicle.



    Bargelord heads towards the lictor on Objective #1.


    Both of the night scythes fly off.


    Bargelords go after the malanthrope and rippers.


    Warlord flyrant goes down to enemy shooting (the AB's).

    Kill Points - Necrons: 5, Tyranids: 6


    Bargelord moves flat-out.


    We then go to assault. Bargelord assaults and wipes out the rippers.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 6, Tyranids: 6


    The other bargelord charges the malanthrope. He only manages to inflict 1W against it.

    Necrons only get 1-VP this turn for killing a Tyranid flying MC. However, they also get 1-VP for killing the Tyranid Warlord.

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 6, Tyranids: 5 (+1VP to Necrons for Slay the Warlord)




    Tyranids 4

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Tyranids:

    1. Destroying 3+ enemy units for 2-VP's.
    2. Destroying 3+ enemy units in the Shooting phase for 2-VP's.


    Wow, those objectives are going to be hard to achieve now that there is only 1 flyrant remaining.


    Lictor comes in onto Objective #2.


    The other lictor goes after the AB with only 1HP remaining....


    ....as does the flyrant.

    While tricky to pull off, theoretically, Tyranids can achieve Maelstrom Tactical Objective #1 (for 2-VP's). What they need to do is to shoot down 1 AB with the flyrant + lictor, assault the other AB with the mawloc and finally, finish off his bargelord in assault with lictor + mucolid. It's a long shot but stranger things have happened.


    Mawloc goes for the last AB.


    Lictor and mucolid prepare for assault.


    One down (and for 2-VP's!).

    Kill Points - Necrons: 6, Tyranids: 8

    I then go straight into assault.


    Lictor and mucolid charges in. Mindshackles either goes off on the mucolid or it didn't go off at all.


    Mawloc fails its charge, getting only 5" while needing about 7".


    Well, at least the exploding mucolid manages to take down the bargelord....


    ....or does it?


    Malanthrope continues to pass Mindshackles and takes 1W in combat.

    Unfortunately, Tyranids achieve neither of their Maelstrom Objectives. They then drop Tactical Objectives #2 (killing 3 units in their Shooting phase).




    Necrons 4

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Necrons:

    1. Destroying 3+ enemy units for 2-VP's.
    2. Kill 1 FMC or flyer.



    All 3 night scythes come in. The 2 that can shoot go after the flyrant.


    Bargelord goes after the mawloc. AB aims for the flyrant as well.


    Bargelord sweeps the lictor for 1W of damage. He then prepares to assault.


    Shooting by the bargelord does 1W of damage to the mawloc.


    Unfortunately, the wounded flyrant just could not withstand the firepower of 3 tesla destructors. The very last flyrant then goes down.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 7, Tyranids: 8


    Assault! It least the lictor would get to strike first...assuming he passes Mindshackles and survives the D6 S6 impact hits!


    Charge!


    When it rains....

    Kill Points - Necrons: 8, Tyranids: 8


    ....it pours.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 9, Tyranids: 8


    At least the mawloc is able to hit-&run out of combat after taking another 2W of damage.

    When all is said and done, Necrons get 3-VP's this turn, 1 for killing the flyrant and 2 for killing 3 units (flyrant, malanthrope and lictor).

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 9, Tyranids: 5




    Tyranids 5

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Tyranids:

    1. Destroying 3+ enemy units for 2-VP's.
    2. Score 1-VP is you have a scoring unit within 12" of the opponent's deployment edge.


    From hereon out, it's a mad dash for objectives and just trying to stay alive.


    Lictor goes after the objective.


    Mawloc will try to take out the AB.


    Lictor runs. Mawloc assaults.


    AB is immobilized but still very much alive.


    Mucolid actually assaults a flyer!...


    ....and takes it out!

    Kill Points - Necrons: 9, Tyranids: 9

    No Maelstrom objectives successfully achieved by bugs this turn.




    Necrons 5

    Spoiler:
    Maelstrom Objectives:

    Necrons:

    1. Secure Objective #3.
    2. Destroy 2+ units in the Assault phase for 2-VP's.



    Warriors from the downed night scythe walks in and onto an Objective.


    Night scythe drops off troops onto Objective #6.


    Bargelord sweeps the mucolid and kills it.


    2 bargelords get ready for a little double-team action against the mawloc.


    The last unit of Necron troops disembark onto Objective #1.


    Finally, the lone surviving tomb blade turbo-boosts onto Objective #5.


    Lictor goes down.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 10, Tyranids: 9


    The other lictor is assaulted....


    ....but survives with 1W remaining.


    Finally, there is the mawloc....


    Wait....no....there was the mawloc.

    Kill Points - Necrons: 12, Tyranids: 9 (Mawloc = 2-VP's)

    Necrons get Objective #3.

    Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 10, Tyranids: 5


    I then roll to see whether the game continues. It does, but there is no need to go on. With only 1 lictor left, Tyranids will be tabled next turn.

    Scoring-wise, assuming the game ended this turn, Necrons grab 4 Big Gun objectives for 12-VP's. They also have 10 Maelstrom VP's, 12-VP's from Kill Points and Linebreaker for a total of 35-VP's.

    Tyranids get 9-VP's for Kill Points and 5-VP's for Maelstrom objectives for a total of 14-pts. The difference is 35 - 14 = 21-VP's, which is a 20-0 win for Necrons.




    Total Domination by the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!





    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

    Spoiler:
    That was quite unexpected. I knew that Necrons were a potential problem matchup against Pentyrant Tyranids, but I didn't quite expect domination like what happened in this game. Flyrants have 1 particular weakness in this game, and that is they have to get in very close in order to do any damage to Necron vehicles. Necrons were then able to take advantage of that fact by going into their "sixes" (airforce lingo for getting behind them). This then forced the flyrants to either land or to waste 1 turn in order to reposition themselves. But once they land, Necrons had the perfect anti-flyrant weapon - bargelords with Mindshackle scarabs.

    But probably the biggest advantage of Necrons in this game was the fact that they went 2nd. Not only did they have the final say in terms of objectives, but for the sacrificial cost of 1 AB, they were able to ignore the 2 strongest defensive advantages of the Tyranids - the Void Shield Generator and the Malanthrope's shrouded bubble.

    IMO, AV13 Necrons just may be one of the toughest matchups for Pentyrant Tyranids (and for most armies as well!). They almost completely ignore half of the firepower of the flyrants, can match and actually even exceed them in terms of mobility, have the perfect anti-flyer weaponry in tesla-destructors and have the perfect counter-assault deterrent in mindshackle scarabs. But one thing I will say, Necrons better enjoy it now while it lasts. Come January, their army is going to get updated and when it does, you can be sure they will most likely be nerfed.




    This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2014/12/21 16:38:39



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    purging philadelphia

    I've been debating this but for 5 more pts per flyrant you can get heavy venom cannons, which would net you some decent damage potential vs this kind of list from range. I'm not trolling btw...I think 5 heavy venom cannons could be a big deal vs things like this, skyrays, etc. Thoughts?

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    Boston, MA

    I'm excited to see how this goes. If the Necrons can efficiently clean up the Tyranid support units, the flyrants will have to drop out of the sky to prevent a runaway on Maelstrom points and that makes them a little more vulnerable. It should be a very good test though.
       
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    Eye of Terror

    Can't wait to learn more about the etc mission format !


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    San Jose, CA

    thanatos67 wrote:
    I've been debating this but for 5 more pts per flyrant you can get heavy venom cannons, which would net you some decent damage potential vs this kind of list from range. I'm not trolling btw...I think 5 heavy venom cannons could be a big deal vs things like this, skyrays, etc. Thoughts?

    It's a fair question.

    I play the odds. What tournament army builds run heavy armor? There are mainly 2 builds that I can think of.

    1. Adlance Knights

    2. AV13 Necrons.

    The rest of the meta, massed S6 can usually deal with.

    LR-spam isn't a viable competitive tournament build. I'd have no problems tabling such an army. Skyrays, I'd go with dakka's to the rear over HVC. 6 S6 shots to AV10 > 1 S9 shot to AV13....all with 3+ cover saves.

    2x dakkas is better against perhaps 80% of the field out there. The HVC, maybe 20%. To me, it's a no-brainer. I'd take my chances with 2x devourers as my TAC weapon of choice and let egrubs handle the heavy armor (along with Warp Blast).


    PanzerLeader wrote:
    I'm excited to see how this goes. If the Necrons can efficiently clean up the Tyranid support units, the flyrants will have to drop out of the sky to prevent a runaway on Maelstrom points and that makes them a little more vulnerable. It should be a very good test though.

    It appears the majority of the Maelstrom objectives aren't really objective-based, but rather, do-this-task or do-that-task. Looks like maybe only 33% are strictly objective, though how they label their Maelstrom objectives is kind of confusing. Anyways, I'm very interested in how this test would turn out as well.


     Dozer Blades wrote:
    Can't wait to learn more about the etc mission format !


    I'll probably make some mistakes as some of the ETC rules are a little confusing, but at least I can get the feel for how this type of list would do in a format other than the BAO.




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    This will certainly be an interesting battle. From what I've found in ETC missions, the necrons have the better match up.

    ETC favors more on the ground presence. Yes, only objectives 11-16 are the actual objectives, but objectives such as 21-23 (line breaker, ascendancy, supremacy) also require you to be grounded. Not to mention the final category, 31-36 have missions that are assault based (challenge) or impossible for you to obtain (demolitions / witch hunter) versus the necrons.

    Coupled with the fact that you can only "cash in" up to two maelstrom objectives each turn, the necrons could easily run away with maelstrom.

    Secondly, while you have pentyrant to deal damage, you also bleed easy kill points to the necrons. The lictors and rippers are easy kills for sweep attacks as they ignore cover due to being CC attacks. The necron list also is a bit tougher with the msu blades...that happen to resurrect and not give up KPs seemingly when the dice turn against you (or with you, haha).

    Good luck fighting your own army!

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    I think between egrubs and possible warp lance it won't be to big an issue. Honestly, I think pentyrant's big nemesis will be the odd horde army.
       
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    Tyranids win this one big I think. If an ABarge is in range, it'll be killed the next turn. Same with Scythes. Unfortunately I don't think jy2s ground forces will match up well with the Crons, but he hopefully gets some points from them while the Flyrants clean up.


     
       
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    StarHunter25 wrote:
    I think between egrubs and possible warp lance it won't be to big an issue. Honestly, I think pentyrant's big nemesis will be the odd horde army.


    Between 60 TL BS4 Str 6 shots, possible psychic scream and a Mawloc I don't think hordes will be that a big of a problem.

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     jifel wrote:
    If an ABarge is in range, it'll be killed the next turn.

    Hyperbole. AV13 ignores S6, and keeping at 24", an Abarge wont ever have to expose it's rear to Flyrants. Three Flyrants could gank a single Abarge with Egrubs, but then you're hunting 90pts with 720pts, and still risk rolling a pesky '1' on the haywire chart.

    Necrons will have trouble with forward objective claiming though, the Tomb Blades are dead in the water and the Surf lords will hurt from the Egrubs if they come forward. Necrons can't be hurt at range, but they can't threaten Nids outside Egrub range. Kind of an interesting standoff-ish matchup. A charging surflord will eat D3 Haywire shots. Better to have them pick up the Tyranid support units and let Abarges stupid Tesla rules tend to the Flyrants.

    Once penned, Quantum shields should go down in a hail of Devourers. Necrons best chance would probably be to stay at maximum range in the early game but move forward with everything in a line, and focus down the Flyrants. always protect the rears of their vehicles.

    I'm not familiar with the mission objectives, so can't say who I think has the upper hand.
       
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    The Flyrants' mobility gives them every opportunity to

    A.) Keep the Annihilation barges penned up in a corner, where they don't impact the tyranid ground forces, and
    B.) Get within Warp lance range, and/or Rear armor arcs for 12 devourer shots.

    The s7 tesla that the necrons bring will put wounds on the tyrants, but their 3+ armor save will likely mitigate the damage quite a bit. Grounding a tyrant and then charging it with a barge lord is probably the Necrons' best bet at killing the flyrants outright, the question will be do the dice allow that to happen.

    I'm still giving the edge to the tyranids in this one, It will be interesting to see how Jy2 plays it out.

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    It is not easy for flyrant to get rear arc shots versus an annibarge unless the Necron player goofs up. The annibarges should put a hurting on the flyrants though.

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    That's it though - if he's keeping his barges back from the flyrants, they're not shooting his lictors etc that'll be earning maelstrom VPs. It's a trade off for the necron side either way.

    After all, flyrants move 24" with a 360 arc of fire. Barges move at most 12" with a 45 degree arc of fire.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/17 16:56:39


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    Effective range of barge is 36" plus it can swivel on base.

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    Probably my two least favorite builds against each other. On paper I'd say the Crons have the edge.

    But JY2 seems to have the luck of the Irish when it comes to the dice, so we'll just see what happens.

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    Pre-Game Analysis up.


     Rypher wrote:
    This will certainly be an interesting battle. From what I've found in ETC missions, the necrons have the better match up.

    ETC favors more on the ground presence. Yes, only objectives 11-16 are the actual objectives, but objectives such as 21-23 (line breaker, ascendancy, supremacy) also require you to be grounded. Not to mention the final category, 31-36 have missions that are assault based (challenge) or impossible for you to obtain (demolitions / witch hunter) versus the necrons.

    Coupled with the fact that you can only "cash in" up to two maelstrom objectives each turn, the necrons could easily run away with maelstrom.

    Secondly, while you have pentyrant to deal damage, you also bleed easy kill points to the necrons. The lictors and rippers are easy kills for sweep attacks as they ignore cover due to being CC attacks. The necron list also is a bit tougher with the msu blades...that happen to resurrect and not give up KPs seemingly when the dice turn against you (or with you, haha).

    Good luck fighting your own army!

    Thanks. Great analysis.

    Just 1 small correction. When a tomb blade goes down, it cannot get back up because the entire unit is down. However, if you were referring to the Necron list in general with regards to resurrecting, then carry on.


    StarHunter25 wrote:
    I think between egrubs and possible warp lance it won't be to big an issue. Honestly, I think pentyrant's big nemesis will be the odd horde army.

    Horde armies could be problematic as long as the hordes are split up. However, if it is 1 giant super-blob of a horde, then that won't be as tough IMO. I am fairly confident that this army can take on deathstar builds like blob-squads and the green tide.


     jifel wrote:
    Tyranids win this one big I think. If an ABarge is in range, it'll be killed the next turn. Same with Scythes. Unfortunately I don't think jy2s ground forces will match up well with the Crons, but he hopefully gets some points from them while the Flyrants clean up.

    I wish I had your confidence. Tyranids can reliably kill Necron vehicles (about 3 in every 2 turns). However, those bargelords can keep on getting back up. They're just so annoying.

    Here is my true yardstick in regards to how this game will fare. If bargelords get back up at least 2 or more times in this matchup, I think Necrons will take it. If not, then Tyranids will probably take it.


     Zande4 wrote:
    StarHunter25 wrote:
    I think between egrubs and possible warp lance it won't be to big an issue. Honestly, I think pentyrant's big nemesis will be the odd horde army.


    Between 60 TL BS4 Str 6 shots, possible psychic scream and a Mawloc I don't think hordes will be that a big of a problem.

    Tyranids definitely have the firepower to deal with hordes, especially if they are out of cover.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/17 18:21:55



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     N.I.B. wrote:
     jifel wrote:
    If an ABarge is in range, it'll be killed the next turn.

    Hyperbole. AV13 ignores S6, and keeping at 24", an Abarge wont ever have to expose it's rear to Flyrants. Three Flyrants could gank a single Abarge with Egrubs, but then you're hunting 90pts with 720pts, and still risk rolling a pesky '1' on the haywire chart.

    Necrons will have trouble with forward objective claiming though, the Tomb Blades are dead in the water and the Surf lords will hurt from the Egrubs if they come forward. Necrons can't be hurt at range, but they can't threaten Nids outside Egrub range. Kind of an interesting standoff-ish matchup. A charging surflord will eat D3 Haywire shots. Better to have them pick up the Tyranid support units and let Abarges stupid Tesla rules tend to the Flyrants.

    Once penned, Quantum shields should go down in a hail of Devourers. Necrons best chance would probably be to stay at maximum range in the early game but move forward with everything in a line, and focus down the Flyrants. always protect the rears of their vehicles.

    I'm not familiar with the mission objectives, so can't say who I think has the upper hand.

    Here's a strategy tip for players going up against flyers.

    You know that flyrants want to take rear shots at your transports (especially if you are AV13 front and sides). What you could do is to use that transport to lead the flyrant wherever you want it. Sure you're moving away from where you want, but your transport is going to be dead anyways so it doesn't matter. But since you're going to lose that vehicle, use it to take the flyrant out of position. Force it to either go into glide mode (so you can potentially assault it) or fly off the table (and lose 1 turn of shooting). Just make sure you use a vehicle that is already damaged for this tactic.


     tetrisphreak wrote:
    The Flyrants' mobility gives them every opportunity to

    A.) Keep the Annihilation barges penned up in a corner, where they don't impact the tyranid ground forces, and
    B.) Get within Warp lance range, and/or Rear armor arcs for 12 devourer shots.

    The s7 tesla that the necrons bring will put wounds on the tyrants, but their 3+ armor save will likely mitigate the damage quite a bit. Grounding a tyrant and then charging it with a barge lord is probably the Necrons' best bet at killing the flyrants outright, the question will be do the dice allow that to happen.

    I'm still giving the edge to the tyranids in this one, It will be interesting to see how Jy2 plays it out.

    Tyranid tactics would be, of course, to focus on 1 unit until it is dead. Go after the barges first because 1) they can shoot my flyrants out of the sky and 2) they are worth 2-VP's due to Big Guns. When Necron flyers come in, go after them as priority targets. MSU bug ground units will take Maelstrom objectives but I will hold back some of them. I do need some to survive until the end of the game to take Big Guns objectives.

    Necron tactics will be to try to get the flyrants into Glide mode by overshooting them in the Movement phase (no, I won't park them near the deployment edges to protect their rear). Have the bargelords nearby to assault a flyrant who lands. 1 or 2 bargelords should be hunting MSU Tyranid units. Shooting needs to focus on 1 flyrant until it is dead. Most important thing to do in this game is to SPREAD OUT.


     Dozer Blades wrote:
    It is not easy for flyrant to get rear arc shots versus an annibarge unless the Necron player goofs up. The annibarges should put a hurting on the flyrants though.

    It's a double-edged sword. To deny the flyrants rear shots means to move your vehicles more and more out of position relative to your objectives. Sometimes, you really can't avoid it, especially if you want to grab an objective.

    However, in this case, AB's will be giving up 2-VP's due to Big Guns.


     tetrisphreak wrote:
    That's it though - if he's keeping his barges back from the flyrants, they're not shooting his lictors etc that'll be earning maelstrom VPs. It's a trade off for the necron side either way.

    After all, flyrants move 24" with a 360 arc of fire. Barges move at most 12" with a 45 degree arc of fire.

    Yeah, it's going to be a tradeoff. In this scenario, my Necrons will go after the flyrants first. If I can take them down early, then I can easily deal with the Tyranid MSU units. However, if I go after Tyranid MSU units instead, then my ability to take out the flyrants gets worse and worse as they take out my firepower. Flyrants can reliably take down 3 barges in 2 turns. I need to deal with them while my firepower is still near full strength rather than wait until later, when I won't have enough firepower to be able to deal with them.


     djones520 wrote:
    Probably my two least favorite builds against each other. On paper I'd say the Crons have the edge.

    But JY2 seems to have the luck of the Irish when it comes to the dice, so we'll just see what happens.

    Lol. Yeah, both lists are really hardcore good.

    Who doesn't want to see the king cobra face off against the eagle. Makes for a more exciting game than seeing the eagle eat a mouse.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/17 18:52:04



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    I'm not sure if playing yourself is entirely a good test of how the armies will compare, since you will know exactly what your "opponent" will do next turn in response to whatever actions you perform...

    That said, should be an interesting match-up. The Necrons actually have my vote in this case. As you said, they have the more balanced army between the two with more redundancy, good mobility, and a far better ground presence.

    thanatos67 wrote:
    I've been debating this but for 5 more pts per flyrant you can get heavy venom cannons, which would net you some decent damage potential vs this kind of list from range. I'm not trolling btw...I think 5 heavy venom cannons could be a big deal vs things like this, skyrays, etc. Thoughts?


    Harpies would be a better platform if you want mass HVCs, since they come twin-linked and are significantly cheaper. The Tyrant is better off with its Devourers since they aren't available on very many platforms and the devourers get more out of the Tyrant's innate BS4 than the HVC's blast does.

       
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     Strat_N8 wrote:
    I'm not sure if playing yourself is entirely a good test of how the armies will compare, since you will know exactly what your "opponent" will do next turn in response to whatever actions you perform...

    That said, should be an interesting match-up. The Necrons actually have my vote in this case. As you said, they have the more balanced army between the two with more redundancy, good mobility, and a far better ground presence.

    I actually feel that, not only is it ok to playtest against yourself, but it may actually be more representative of how high-level games play out.

    Really experienced generals can usually anticipate what his opponent will do. He usually won't fall for "tricks" that less experienced generals will. As a very experienced general, my thought process in most cases isn't "what will my opponent do next?" It's actually "how can I stop my opponent from doing what he is going to do next?" I anticipate what I feel is the best move for him and then prepare for that. In high level play, my personal opinion is that there is no real secret or mystery as to what will happen next. You know what he will do next, because it should be the move that gives him the best chances of winning. The question is more, what can you do about it? In such games, mistakes are very, very few. Every move is a calculated risk. To the inexperienced eye, you may wonder why he is doing what he is doing, but to the experienced player, you know he is setting himself up to try to win the game and that is the best move that he could make. He may be sacrificing a unit in order to do so - and to some, that may look like a mistake - but he is just setting up for the endgame, kind of like chess.

    Now this is assuming you know both armies that you are playing very well. If not, then I'd agree it is better to find a more experienced general to test out the game with.




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    It saddens me to see where this game is heading when the core of the army, the troops, gets the bare minimum treatment.

    I voted Tyranids. Just too mobile and strong.
       
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    Necron player getting to pick where all those s6 shots go is a huge benefit.

    Think the cron player will take this one out.
       
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    With the new Mephrit Dynasty formation in SOB: Exterminatus it is now possible to field six AB and 5 Nightscythe with 5 immortals each. This will stop the Pentyrant list pretty much cold. There is enough tesla shots in this army to eradicate the Flyrants. The only downside is that it is only ok against everything else and wouldn't stand a chance in melee.

    CAD:

    HQ:

    Overlord, Warscythe, Res Orb, Semp Weave 145pt

    Troops:

    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt

    Heavy:

    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt

    Mephrit Dynasty formation:

    HQ

    Overlord, Warscythe, Res Orb, Semp Weave 145pt

    Troops:

    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt

    Heavy:

    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt

    This comes out to 1755 pt which gives 95 pts to spread around as necessary. You could remove the war gear on the Overlords and free up another 110 pts. You could use the points to get a CCB and take gear from the other Overlord to gear it out. A little flexibility there.


    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/18 21:59:04


     
       
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    Naw wrote:
    It saddens me to see where this game is heading when the core of the army, the troops, gets the bare minimum treatment.

    I voted Tyranids. Just too mobile and strong.

    There are always those armies, no matter how much GW tries to steer us away from them.


    barit wrote:
    Necron player getting to pick where all those s6 shots go is a huge benefit.

    Think the cron player will take this one out.

    They have a decent shot IMO.


    Warmonger2757 wrote:
    With the new Mephrit Dynasty formation in SOB: Exterminatus it is now possible to field six AB and 5 Nightscythe with 5 immortals each. This will stop the Pentyrant list pretty much cold. There is enough tesla shots in this army to eradicate the Flyrants. The only downside is that it is only ok against everything else and wouldn't stand a chance in melee.

    CAD:

    HQ:

    Overlord, Warscythe, Res Orb, Semp Weave 145pt

    Troops:

    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt

    Heavy:

    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt

    Mephrit Dynasty formation:

    HQ

    Overlord, Warscythe, Res Orb, Semp Weave 145pt

    Troops:

    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt
    Immortals X5 with Nightscythe 185 pt

    Heavy:

    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt
    Annihilation Barge 90pt

    This comes out to 1755 pt which gives 95 pts to spread around as necessary. You could remove the war gear on the Overlords and free up another 110 pts. You could use the points to get a CCB and take gear from the other Overlord to gear it out. A little flexibility there.



    Spamming just for the sake of spamming doesn't necessarily make it a good list. This list, while it will give some armies a difficult time, isn't necessarily a better list. That's because it is less balanced than my current list and has a weaker ground presence. Despite all the hoopla about flyers and flying units, an army lives or dies by its ground presence. One of the good things about the Pentyrant list is that the flyrants can land to give it a stronger ground presence. That is why I don't run a pure Necron Airforce. While it is strong and can dominate a lot of matchups, it is not as great of a Take-All-Comer's list and can be countered hard by some army builds. The same goes with this army using the new Necron detachments.

    The key here is to create a balanced list.



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    The ground presence is very important for a TAC army.

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    Please put some turns up!!!! I wanna see this one play out!
       
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    I think getting that many onslaughts will be very valuable.



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     herpguy wrote:
    I think getting that many onslaughts will be very valuable.


    Very lucky that 4/5 Flyrants got the one power that would prove most useful against av13/13/11 skimmers.

    Your powers alone here to me suggest the fate of this game! Unless your opponent keeps his skimmers rear on the board edge of course.
       
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    Should we start calling this style of game tabletop masturbation?


    Edit: Sorry, I thought of that one and couldn't resist

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/21 02:54:54


       
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    It is an interesting match none the less... jy2's two favorite armies !!

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/21 03:13:52


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    I don't understand the necron deployment though. I'd have hung back further with the 36" threat range looking for a beta strike. No reason to be up that far.
       
     
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