Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey,

7th Edition space wolves codex lists lone wolves as an elite unit, but also states in the unit entry "May take one Lone wolf for every GH/BC/WG unit, this choice does not take up a force organisation slot" (can't remember exact wording, and I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, so somebody may be able to expand on the wording)

So, my question is, if I have one troop choice in my Allied detachment, how many lone wolves can I bring? I've seen conflicting discussions suggesting that the above mentioned sentence means that I can only take one LW as I only have one troop choice (ie I cannot use an elite slot to take an additional lone wolf), or that I can take two lone wolves-one due to the troop choice, and one for the elite slot.

I know that the command squad for C:SM has similar conditions for taking a squad with a HQ unit, but I seem to remember this being specifically worded so that it was clear that you couldn't take the command squad except as an effective addition to a HQ unit (ie 1:1). I'm using my allied SW detachment as a fluffy revenge-seeking addition to an existing IH detachment, so lone wolves fit the bill and I want as many as possible.

Thanks

You can take a Lone Wolf as just an Elite Choice. You also can take advantage of that extra rule to unlock "slotless" Lone Wolfs.

The max you can have in an Allied Detachment would be 3. Two are unlocked by your two Troop choices, and the third can either be taken straight-up as an Elite choice, or unlocked as a slotless choice if you take Wolf Guard. In the specific case you mentioned (where you only bring one allied Troop choice), you could include two Lone Wolfs.

Excellent, thank you-that's the way I thought it should play out.

Somehow I hadn't connected the dots with adding the WG and getting an extra LW that way.....I may have to buy some terminators when I have the cash.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
You can take a Lone Wolf as just an Elite Choice. You also can take advantage of that extra rule to unlock "slotless" Lone Wolfs.

The max you can have in an Allied Detachment would be 3. Two are unlocked by your two Troop choices, and the third can either be taken straight-up as an Elite choice, or unlocked as a slotless choice if you take Wolf Guard. In the specific case you mentioned (where you only bring one allied Troop choice), you could include two Lone Wolfs.

I'm pretty sure this is completely wrong. The wording is pretty clear in the codex. You can take one lone wolf for each unit of GH/BC or WG. They do not take up a force org slot. They may sit in the elites section, but they had to sit somewhere. That little italic statement at the start dictates how many you can take and that they don't take force org slots.

So, in your army you can take 3 but only with two troops choices AND a unit of WG. Without the WG you may only take 2. 1 for each troop choice. In your example, you unlock ONE.
I've played wolves for quite a while now. I genuinely haven't heard of anyone trying to take them as elites choices with no units to unlock them.

Khaine's Wrath,
We are granted permission to select a Unit found in the Elite section of the Army List to fill an Elite Battlefield Role, so do you have a Rule which revokes this permission?

I would also like to bring to your attention there exists a Battlefield Role known as Other, the perfect Role for any Unit that the Authors do not intend to be selectable to fill a default Force Organization Chart. It is perfect because none of the default Detachments utilize this slot, in fact so few Detachments address 'Other Battlefield Roles' that I can only think of one off the top of my head. That one, and any like it I bet, all contain internal Restrictions which force the 'Other' Role to be taken by specificity Named Units, on top of only being accessible by using an Army from a Codex/Supplement that grants access the Detachment to begin with. I, personally, dislike Slotless Units and Dedicated Transports being granted anything bar an 'Other Role' status.

For branding them as anything other then 'Other' allows them to be selected using the default method....

PS:
I have to stop using the word 'selected,' including it's variants, but it is such a useful word for any Unit chosen to fill a Role.
For those curious as to why... 6th Edition outright refereed to Units selected to fill a certain Role as 'Troop selections' or 'Heavy selections' or similar. Even the Rule used to fill any Battlefield Role repetitively called this process 'selecting' or refereed to the Unit selected as 'selections' within itself. That made it very easy to tie the word 'selections' to the process of selecting to fill a Role, and then build a Rule as Written argument based off that common use of Terminology. That would lead to the conclusion that any Rule containing the words 'These Selections...' would trigger automatically on the act of Selecting the Unit, including any Restrictions telling us that X or Y must be present.

As the Authors re-wrote the whole 'Building your Army,' along with the deliberately removal the Terminology of 'These Selections' from such Rules, it is no longer possible for the act of Selecting a Battlefield Role to automatically trigger a Slotless Rule....

First of all, the unit Lone Wolf reads:

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organization slot.

The authors did NOT write "You can *only* take one Lone Wolf for...", which would end the discussion very quickly.

The authors did NOT write, "You can *also* take one Lone Wolf for...", which would also end the discussion very quickly.

In absence of that clarification, if it were my opponent, I'd just let them have their way.

Intuitively, I feel that "only" is implied rather than "also", because the manual generally only tells you what you can do, and implies you can't do other things -- but whatever, I get the alternate perspective, and I don't feel nearly confident enough about it or strongly enough about it to argue the point with anyone at a table.

The SW codex tells you that you can take a slotless Lone Wolf. The BRB tells you that you can take a "slotted" Lone Wolf. You have two non-contradicting permissions. Both options are possible.

The same goes for the Court of the Archon of the DE and the (hq) Meks of the orks. You can use the units with or without the others but the unit's don't use up slots if you already have those other units in your army.

Don't read between the lines, there are no words there.

Aarsigheid wrote:
The same goes for the Court of the Archon of the DE and the (hq) Meks of the orks. You can use the units with or without the others but the unit's don't use up slots if you already have those other units in your army.

Don't read between the lines, there are no words there.

Agreed.