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Hey There,

I'm curious if anyone has an artist's brand paint brush that is of similar or better quality then the GW brushes that they use to paint their miniatures? I'm talking high quality, Golden Daemon Painter worthy brushes, not cheap alternatives.

Thoughts?

The one that the apathetic fish uses is good. I can't remember the name.

Winsor & Newton series 7, particularly sizes 00, 0, and 1. I don't find W&N 3/0 very useful, and rarely use my size 2.

Raphael 8404, particularly 6/0 (awesome super detail brush)

Windsor & Newton brush cleaner & restorer for after session cleaning, and Master's brush soap for weekly/biweekly cleaning.

Some natural hair flat and filbert brushes for basecoating -- they don't have to be super duper.

Talys closed the thread for you. Series 7. I've used it to the point I can't tell if it's a 1 or a 2, but I use the brush all the time, with the zero for most details. For eyeballs and such, I use an old kolinsky sable brush (basically the same thing) that's had half of it's hairs fall out over the years (like going on 10+ now). The 0 would do it, but i've got the smaller brush so I use it.

Brush soap is great for getting them to stop misbehaving (happens eventually). I still haven't used the cleaner/restorer stuff, just water, though I probably should get some.

Raphael 8404 6/0 huh? If you have such good taste with series 7, I may have to take your word on this and order one

Winsor & Newton Series 7. I've been using them since the 1980s. I can still remember how astounded I was by the quality the first time I used one.

Scharff 3000
Raphael 8404
Winsor & Newton Series 7
There are also a couple other brands that make fine brushes but aren't as well known as the big brands

With high quality bushes, buying multiple sizes usually isn't necessary as a size 2 with a perfect tip can paint something like an eye ball on a 28mm miniature (like a Guardsman) just the same as a size 10/0. Granted, this means you have to take care of them using some of the products others have mentioned (specifically Master's Brush Soap), but it is certainly doable. I have three primary brushes (size 1, 0, and 2/0) and the size 1 gets about 99% of the use.

The ones from Games & Gears are also pretty dandy.
http://www.gamesandgears.co.uk/

I use Rosemary & Co. - either the Series 99 red sable or the Series 33 Kolinsky. Not quite as nice as a S7 or 8404 (I'm told. at least - I'm so happy with them that I've not felt the need to splash out the cash for one of the 'big two'), but significantly less expensive and still a big step up in quality from your usual GW/AP fare.

Talys wrote:
Winsor & Newton series 7, particularly sizes 00, 0, and 1. I don't find W&N 3/0 very useful, and rarely use my size 2.

Raphael 8404, particularly 6/0 (awesome super detail brush)

Windsor & Newton brush cleaner & restorer for after session cleaning, and Master's brush soap for weekly/biweekly cleaning.

Some natural hair flat and filbert brushes for basecoating -- they don't have to be super duper.

As usual I agree with Talys. I'd add that the W&N s7 "miniature" series, despite the name are not better for most miniature painting but they are good for edge highlight because of the short and fat tip.

 GrimDork wrote:

Raphael 8404 6/0 huh? If you have such good taste with series 7, I may have to take your word on this and order one

The 8404 6/0 is like the insane detail brush from army painter, but much better quality. Right away, you notice it holds more paint.

Basically, I use it for doing eyes, and a separate one if I need really thin metallic lines. I'll try to take a picture of one tonight after tv with the missus

Edit: ok, here you go, picture =) Up to size 0, they are about 6 months old; size 1, 2, 3 are a year or more, because I don't use them so much. You can see how even after quite a bit of use, the bristles still look great. The size 00 and 0 are 500+ hours of use, cleaned daily with the W&N Brush Cleaner, and every 1-2 weeks with Masters. I keep a second set to do metallics.



By the way, don't discount flat and filbert brushes for basecoat. It's much faster, and getting brushstroke free coats is a lot easier with a flat brush than a round one. You can also get a really crisp line with a flat that has a sharp edge (a newer brush), and a filbert is perfect for doing things like cutting corners and wet blending. Filbert brushes have rounded tips instead of square ones, so if you have to paint vertically, then switch to horizontally (like the corner of a SM shoulder pad, this prevents the actual corner from getting twice as much paint. If you're not going for opaque (ie you're layering), this keeps the corners from looking slightly darker than the rest. Another big plus on flat/filbert brushes is that midrange brushes work just fine, because you're not worrying about keeping a point. And you can jam them into the crevices with impunity!

This is actually the reason I don't get much use out of my size 2 & 3 brushes -- I usually switch to a size 0, 1, 2 flat/filbert. It's also good practice for terrain, where those flat brushes are really useful (but in the half, 3/4, 1 inch, and larger sizes).

http://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-kolinsky-sable/pure-kolinsky-pointed

These .... I just love them.

Would rate them 80-90% as good as the Windsor and Newton Series 7's that I have (Im not sure theres much difference in the actual quality, but my W&N size 0 is a bit fatter and a bit shorter in hairs than my R&C.... preferences I guess, barely anything in it though) , but you can have 2 R&C for the cost of the single W&N equivalent. Theyre hand made in Yorkshire by a small family owned business specialising in just awesome brushes, nothing on the scale of Windsor and Newton a big industry supplier making more than just brushes.
Always worth getting a pot of some nice brush soap from the art supply shop. Makes these things hold a point ten times as long when cleaned properly.

Thanks everyone. This has been a big help!!!

I often find that Tamiya's brushes are realy handy.

Reinokarite wrote:
I often find that Tamiya's brushes are realy handy.

I have a full set of the Tamiya Pro Kolinsky sable brushes, and the handles are wonderful. They are contoured, curved and just a joy to use. Two negatives though: the bristles are very short, and the belly does not flange out, meaning the brush doesn't hold that much paint (but you get more control); a side effect is that it's impossibly hard not to get paint in the ferrule. And, where I am, they are ridiculously expensive. For example, MSRP on a W&N size 0 is about $20, and MSRP on a Tamiya 0 is something like $35.

Another minor criticism of mine is that the brush handle cracks with moderate contact to brush cleaners that seem safe for short contact to other brush handles.

I've bought myself 11 brushes from rosemary and co on back of this

James811 wrote:
I've bought myself 11 brushes from rosemary and co on back of this

I'm sure you wont regret it I've recently been in contact with R&C requesting some custom made brushes ; I want Kollinsky hair on the handles for their series 101 Red Sable, got told to try in January as theyve been busy for Christmas. But the good news was that this is totally possible.

(psst; Oadie, people are listening to us? weird eh? )

Another +1 for Windsor and Newton here!

Some of the P3 brushes are also pretty good (the larger regiment/base-sized ones).

I avoid Army Painter brushes, with the exception of their drybrushes. Yes they are very cheap, but I get through so many of them it's a false economy. You're better off spending a bit more on a sable brush and then taking care of it.

I've been using Creative Models Kolinsky brushes for the past year. I pretty much exclusively use a size 1 brush and have been using it for the past year and it's still got an almost perfect tip on it. It's more expensive than your cheapo non-Kolinsky brushes like Citadel or Army Painter but not as expensive as Windsor and Newton stuff and it's been doing well by me. Having a brush with a good tip and good body that doesn't get damaged easily makes painting a lot easier.

I just found this old photo on my photbucket showing the tips of rosemary and co vs windsor and newton with an eavy metal detail brush along side them all;

Scharff 3000 are good and available. If you go with series 7 make you sure you don't get the miniature versions.

I've just spent about a month using games and gears ichiban studio line and they are very good. Not quite as good as scharff, but if you travel with your paints they are the way to go.

Higher quality brushes hold a point much, much better than cheap brushes. This means you can use a larger size than you may be used to using. I seldom use anything below a 1.

Don't use the same brush for metallics as normal paints.

Buy master's brush cleaner. If you are spending $15 per brush the soap adds life.

Let us know which brushes you choose.

Thanks and take care

Taking the opportunity to ask about the master brush cleaner, becuase i find it in two presentations, one thats looks like paste in a bottel and the other thats come in the form of soap, there is any difference betwen both? thanks in adavance

My brush soap isnt master brand, but its basically the same thing; its a pot of the soap form.

I wet my bush, dab it to the soap, and work it through the bristles onto a paper towel. Add some more water, it foams up. and keep rinsing it out thoroughly. I do this after every colour, and when painting one colour for a long time, in the middle of painting too to stop paint drying in the bristles.

It can loosen well dried on paint, but you have to be careful to not be too rough working it through.
Working the bristles in a circle seems to do the trick without being too harsh.

Soap can be left in the brush to go hard ; this is basically what is on the bristles of a brand new brush keeping them stiff for storage.

The gel, I've never used but expect its just similar in use.

Edit; liquid hand soap works very well, as does liquid shower gel soap, once in a while its realyl good practise to use some hair conditioner on the bristles. Particularly when the brush wont be used for a while.
Anything thats good for your human hair, is good for these too. (and vice versa, things that damage your head of hair, will damage your brush too)

I've just been using a bar of cheap hand soap, the variety that has minimal other stuff in it.

Another +1 to W&N S7

I will however get me some Rosemary & Co to try. If nothing else to support a smaller manufacturer.

Got a few Games and Gears Ichiban brushes but have had a few issues with them. I am planning to give them a few more hours and then contact G&G and see what they say. Since it was from the kickstarter batch I might just have been unlucky.

 granander wrote:
Another +1 to W&N S7

I will however get me some Rosemary & Co to try. If nothing else to support a smaller manufacturer.

Got a few Games and Gears Ichiban brushes but have had a few issues with them. I am planning to give them a few more hours and then contact G&G and see what they say. Since it was from the kickstarter batch I might just have been unlucky.

The spoiler in my prior post hides a photo that compares series 7's sizes 0 through 3 to a bunch of rosemary and co ranging from well used to brand new - look at the ferrules to see which ones are old)
The tips are equaly awesome, main differences is in the how fat the belly is and how long the bristles are. Both have that amazing high quality of tip and the spring of kollinsky hairs.

HairySticks wrote:

 granander wrote:
Another +1 to W&N S7

I will however get me some Rosemary & Co to try. If nothing else to support a smaller manufacturer.

Got a few Games and Gears Ichiban brushes but have had a few issues with them. I am planning to give them a few more hours and then contact G&G and see what they say. Since it was from the kickstarter batch I might just have been unlucky.

The spoiler in my prior post hides a photo that compares series 7's sizes 0 through 3 to a bunch of rosemary and co ranging from well used to brand new - look at the ferrules to see which ones are old)
The tips are equaly awesome, main differences is in the how fat the belly is and how long the bristles are. Both have that amazing high quality of tip and the spring of kollinsky hairs.

Nice pic!! I had one a long time ago with Raphael 8404's. I've mostly stopped 8404's now (only using 6/0), mostly because I prefer the stiffness of the W&N's.

I really like those 'Eavy Metal detail brushes, by the way. I've gotten a couple in GW kits. They feel like W&N 00's with larger handles.

Yeah I saw the spoiler

I like to buy new ones now and then to try out. (Resulting in quite a big collection, and growing )

Now that it was mentioned, I do like a bigger handle. The W&N S7 is pretty good but I was thinking that one might use a shrink tube (preferably if I can find a transparent one) to get a larger rubberised grip.

 granander wrote:
Yeah I saw the spoiler

I like to buy new ones now and then to try out. (Resulting in quite a big collection, and growing )

Now that it was mentioned, I do like a bigger handle. The W&N S7 is pretty good but I was thinking that one might use a shrink tube (preferably if I can find a transparent one) to get a larger rubberised grip.

I had once thought of a pencil grip.. .the triangle-shaped rubbery things that we used to use in elementary school. I far prefer fatter grips (like Tamiya Kolinsky brushes, or Army Painter), but I've since gotten used to little paintbrush handles.

I know what you mean about paintbrushes. I own a massive collection of paintbrushes, but a lot of them I hardly use. Two types of brushes that are underrated, by the way, are the Citadel drybrushes, and flat/filbert brushes. The Citadel drybrushes are so awesome for drybrush work, because they are much stiffer/coarser, than old paintbrushes with the tips cut off. Plus, because they are very rugged brushes, if you clean them properly, they last a really really long time.

Flat/Filbert brushes (filbert are a flat brush with rounded corners) are really useful because they can cover larger areas more quickly, and result in far, far fewer brushstrokes. I mean, imagine the difference of painting your kitchen with a flat versus a round brush There are so many painters that I have seen who never use either, though.

Incidentally, Filbert brushes are nice for cutting hard corners (because you don't get twice as much paint on the corner from the vertical plus the horizontal stroke), and also for wet blending flat surfaces (like cloaks), because the edges can be a little more diffused with no work.

For sure

I mentioned up there somewhere ^^ that I've contacted R&C about an alternate handle for the Series 33
These ones; from the 101 red sables


In 2-3 weeks I'l be chasing up that request and finding out what itle cost me for a set of 00 through to 2, twice over, and some thing suited for drybrushing on a matching handle at the same time in 2-3 sizes. Theyve got tonnes of bristle types so I bet I can get something, I used to like their mongoose hair but its become endangered an the substitute isnt quite right. So I'm on the look out for a high end dry brush to get in some filberts and angular shapes.

If they can do it reasonably for me, I might suggest they make it a line of brushes or just an option on the series 33.

I love the regular Series 33, just on long paint sessions, particularly with the smaller sizes that have thinner handles, I get some additional strain in my fingers from holding the brush. I know I know take more breaks... But this handle shape is easier on my hands and will allow for longer work time between breaks without causing discomfort. Also the bulbous handle part encourages you to hold it in the right place rather than edging down to the ferrules gradually.

I really like that they are willing to do custom work. But I, personally, don't like the triangular grips since I tend to rotate the brush alot always working to keep as optimum tip.