Poll |
 |
|
 |
Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 22:29:46
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Spawn of Chaos
|
The question came about when I read about the Death Company and World Eaters. As for the size of the competitors' armies, we're assuming that they're equal in terms of size and both armies have only Chainswords (but Kharn and Tycho still have their unique wargear). Your answer though can be based on fluff, crunch, or both.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/19 23:05:32
FTW |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/19 22:46:33
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
I'd give it to the bezerkers because of Kharn. During the HH he was lauded as one of the best warriors in the crusade and since then hes had 10000 years to hone even more butchery.
Dont own either units so cant comment on tabletop superiority.
|
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
"Feelin' goods, good enough". |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 03:20:26
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
|
Yeah, both bare bones I would say the Zerkers have it. Add on jump packs, IoW I still give it to Karn's boys. But I don't think anyone takes zerkers with chain axes.
|
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 03:23:19
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Glorious Lord of Chaos
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
|
Yeah, the Berzerkers win this. Kharn is just icing on the cake, he could take out a noticeable part of the Death Company on his own.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 03:23:49
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
The oceans of the world
|
Zerkers, they are crazy killing ninjas of the blood god
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 05:34:17
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch
|
Kharn wins, though how long depends on who gets the charge.
Tycho forgot to bring a melee weapon, so he's toast unless he manages to double kharn out on overwatch/assault with his one shot melta. Feel no pain and a 4++ means he ties kharn up for longer than you'd expect. (~ 3 rounds if Kharn didn't charge).
Mathhammer says that for a 5 man squad per side + HQ;
If neither side got a charge bonus, then Kharn kills Tycho in round 3, then mops up the remaining DC, killing the last 1 or 2 in round 5, also likely taking out the last berserker. Kharn is the last man standing, but has taken a wound.
If the 'Zerkers & Special K get the charge, then Tycho dies in round 2 and then Kharn kills the remaining DC, probably leaving 1, maybe 2, Berserkers still alive at the end of round 4, with Kharn probably taking a wound.
If the DC gets the charge, then Tycho still dies in round 3, but the remaining DC last until round 6 before Kharn kills them, though they probably put a wound on him in addition to the 1 Tycho probably manages. Kharn is still the last man standing.
So yeah, Kharn is the deciding factor, as the DC actually oufight the KB's and if given enough time without Tycho or Kharn, then they would win vs an even number of Berzerkers.
Tycho is a chump for not having a melee weapon, but also allows them to stay alive by tanking Kharn with a 4++/5+++. You'd have more luck with a generic captain with a powerfist/storm shield for cheaper, as there's at least a chance he could survive and double kharn out.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/20 05:40:25
Peregrine wrote:What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 09:13:53
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
|
Is that mathhammer with the bare bones units? If so I would like to know how it would go if both units had their signature gear, ie Icon of Wrath and Chain Axes/ Jump packs and whatever DC uses.
|
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 09:20:37
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Lady of the Lake
|
Kharn should also be a third option alone, it would also be the correct option.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/20 10:16:13
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch
|
Lord Blackscale wrote:Is that mathhammer with the bare bones units? If so I would like to know how it would go if both units had their signature gear, ie Icon of Wrath and Chain Axes/ Jump packs and whatever DC uses.
Then the Berserkers would get their face chopped off even harder, since DC can take power weapons and the zerkers can only take a Str: User AP4 chain axe and the icon of wrath only lets them re-roll their charge distance, since they already have furious charge. The fact that you'd double the amount of berzerkers wouldn't account for the ability of the DC to ignore armour.
Assuming 9 berserkers (181 points) against 5 death company with power swords (175 points), then Kharn still kills Tycho in round 3, but this time the DC polish off the Berserkers in round 3, then khan kills the DC by round 5, they probably manage 1 wound on him. Same deal with power axes.
If you give the DC the charge, they wipe the Zerkers out on the charge, then give Kharn a quality stabbing, while he's distracted with Tycho on round 2. Kharn finishes off Tycho and mulches another 2 DC, but gets taken down by the DC sarge. If they've got power Axes, they could possibly kill Kharn on round 2.
As for Kharn (160) alone Vs 5 Death Company with 4 power axes (160) on the charge?
Kharn kills a bit over 3 before they strike (assuming one was the chainsword wielding guy), then they attack back, managing about 1.5 wounds. Round 2, Kharn is infurated he can't find any worth prey and kills the remaining 2 before they can strike.
If they manage to get I5 (via formation) and have power swords, the DC will kill him on the charge in exchange for 3 or 4 of their own.
|
Peregrine wrote:What, you don't like rolling dice to see how many dice you roll? Why are you such an anti-dice bigot? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/21 16:01:19
Subject: Blood for the (insert army name here)
|
 |
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
|
I guess that just shows how underpowered the CSM codex is nowadays. Our most dedicated close combat unit is totally outclassed by a unit that really should be, at best, it's equal. One group of crazed space marines compared to another, they should be more equal. Karn should be ashamed.
|
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
|