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Imagine this:

You are having a game and your opponent takes that formation with loads of combined Ork squads. He takes 100 boyz, and 5 Nobz with shootas and PK. The rest have sluggas. A Painboy is shoved in there but hiding at the back like a coward. It also includes an 'eavy armour PK Warboss.
The opponent has the detachment that allows EVERYTHING to Waaaagh every turn after the second, so that unit keeps running towards you.
The rest of the army is a Mega armoured boss with (you guessed it) da lucky stikk with 17 boyz, a Painboy and all in a battlewagon with 4x big shootas, 4 lots of 12 shoots boyz in trukks, flash gitz in a trukk and 5 mek guns (kannons) with ammo runts and additional crew.

What do you do?

He bitched so much because I castled up (what else could I have done as Tau? I hate playing gun line but that Ork blob was intimidating.

Also, post which army you are answering for (it applies to any army)

Line up, 2 3 leman russ punishers squads w/3 heavy bolters heavy stubberes oh and tank commander and pask in each squad respectively and blaze away. oh and another normal leman russ squad to deal with other stuff may be a platoon with 2 sniper squads and snipers and h bolters in each squad to get rid of pain boys.

BTW, I had no idea that his list would be like that so I was completely unprepared.

Oh if playing tau sniper drone squads gun down the pain boys. Put an ethereal in gun line extra shot to pulse weapons kroot screen deal with those get to close. Battle suit for tanks and harder units.

You played it right. The Tide isn't something to be taken lightly, and if you don't have the units to tie it up in CC, all you can do is try to either castle up, or spread out and kite the mob.

As an Ork player, I faced the same issue against my brother in law, except he didn't castle as per normal, he instead had nothing but jump shoot jump and just flew around the field, blasting me up.

A game against my BA playing companion, he tied up the tide with two dreadnaughts, a squad of death company, and some TH/SH terminators (Yet lost ALL of those units to the sheer weight of the Tide and the amount of Klaw attacks tearing the armor off everything)

In short, you played right. He can get mad if he wants, but that's one of the problems with the Tide. I don't know what point size you were playing, but it sounds like he didn't bring the right kind of support for the Tide. He should be bringing a lot of bikes or kopters to get up close and fast to wittle down your shooty units until the Tide can get there and murder the survivors, or to tie up anything with Blast templates in CC with those speedy units.

For marines, well what I have form defensive line, lagar my tanks to enhance defences, bring up vindicators, assault termies, tooled up sterguards, chaplains, and such, and blasdt huge holes, whilst mellee specialists hold the line.

Lots of flamers too, basicly troops hold the line, and big guns emptwy shell after shell into them

I'm almost # 2 but with Nidz I have the advantage of 2-4 Flyrants circling the airspace ripping the faces off orks by the dozen and my own swarm of gribbles to blunt his charge wile I prep for my own once his support is done.

I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

SGTPozy wrote:
A Painboy is shoved in there but hiding at the back like a coward.

That isn't cowardice, that's strategic planning.

 total0 wrote:
I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

Tau are in general suited to take out most any opponent, Orks being no exception. They have the tools, especially with their flamer suits that can drop in and really fry some stuff, only to jump away. Orks have a rough time taking on any army in the game in a straight up fire fight. We do best in objective holding games, which is why Maelstrom is so powerful for our army. It's pretty hard to shake us off of any objective, and we can pretty easily overtake an objective someone else might be trying to contest from us.

Green Tide against Tau is pretty bad to be fair. He played it smart, and stayed back out of your choppy reach. What you need to do in the future against Tau is to keep your threats split up, and keep his fire power devided. If your big threat (The tide) is your only real threat, that's all he has to do is point and shoot.

Battle Wagon's tend to do well if you can keep the front armor facing their guns, as they do have a rough time busting Av14 without a riptide. Honestly, my Morkanaught single handedly scared my bro-in-law's army because even his Riptide couldn't do anything to it. Not to mention the 5+ invul bubble kept him focused on trying to kill it the best he could so he could finally bust open my wagons to some degree of effect. (Though he did toast my Trukks, but that's nothing to brag about )

 total0 wrote:
I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

I'm asking how other people would have dealt with it, if you are not going to stay on topic then please do not post.

Any mileage in sacrificing the odd speed bump unit to slow the big mob down? I've never played vs the green tide so I don't know if that would have any effect.

The game was 2500 points and it was Maelstrom so castling left me at a disadvantage and due to The Tide it was almost impossible to get to the other half of the table. I was just lucky with my cards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kapitan Montag wrote:
Any mileage in sacrificing the odd speed bump unit to slow the big mob down? I've never played vs the green tide so I don't know if that would have any effect.

It would depend on whether it is fearless and highly durable, if not then it would just be bad since they could consolidate further towards the rest of your army.

Most effective Green Tide counter I can think of comes from Codex: Chaos Daemons.

Bring Bel'Lakor and a couple Great Unclean Ones. The GUOs roll on Biomancy for Iron Arm. Bel'Lakor takes Telepathy for Invisibility.

Charge something into the Ork lines to tie it up for a turn so the Great Unclean One can get into assault range. The Invisible T10 Monstrous Creature can then tarpit the enemy for the rest of the game. The 3++ from the Book of True Names can also help.

Remember to issue a challenge. If he declines, select the Warboss as the target to remove from combat. If he accepts, you get to allocate your wounds onto something useful.

Melevolence wrote:

 total0 wrote:
I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

Tau are in general suited to take out most any opponent, Orks being no exception. They have the tools, especially with their flamer suits that can drop in and really fry some stuff, only to jump away. Orks have a rough time taking on any army in the game in a straight up fire fight. We do best in objective holding games, which is why Maelstrom is so powerful for our army. It's pretty hard to shake us off of any objective, and we can pretty easily overtake an objective someone else might be trying to contest from us.

Green Tide against Tau is pretty bad to be fair. He played it smart, and stayed back out of your choppy reach. What you need to do in the future against Tau is to keep your threats split up, and keep his fire power devided. If your big threat (The tide) is your only real threat, that's all he has to do is point and shoot.

Battle Wagon's tend to do well if you can keep the front armor facing their guns, as they do have a rough time busting Av14 without a riptide. Honestly, my Morkanaught single handedly scared my bro-in-law's army because even his Riptide couldn't do anything to it. Not to mention the 5+ invul bubble kept him focused on trying to kill it the best he could so he could finally bust open my wagons to some degree of effect. (Though he did toast my Trukks, but that's nothing to brag about )

My original tactic was for the tide to be a distraction for my trukks and battlewaggon to move up the board and make the charge into the lines but there was enough pods on the field to remove them at the half way mark so that didn't go to plan :p. I actually set up a thread probable about 10 mins before this thread was made asking for advice with my orks so i thank you for the advice . Would you advise the battlewaggon formation so i gain scout? Each filled with slugga boyz and backed up by shoota boy trukks?

I don't aim to make a powet build as i mainly play for the fun of the game but the massed ork hordes and scrap trukks are what really brought ne to orks so i just want to find a way to make them work :p

I ran into this 100 boy formation twice. First time was with my Wraith Guard Eldar. I formed a block of guard and lords (no knights in my list) and kept the flamers in the second row. Widdled the orks down about 9 a turn, and then they charge my forward invisible squad. His formation was tide up with invisible guard unable to do anything rest of game. My army was free to roam.

Second time was with my space marines. I had a land raider crusader and zero cares. I cut a swath of orks down with flamers, and supportive fire. Around turn 2 I charge out my company command squad with 5 flamers (no i didnt tailor my list i really run a pure flamer and melta bomb command squad, normally to kill tau cover hugging units) He was down to 30 boys at turn 5. I had an unstoppable LR and my razorbacks were ok.

If your foe complains about you doing a correct positional move with Tau then you are doing it right.

If you have the Wagons for it, the Blitz Brigade formation could be hugely helpful in taking out backfield Tau. Filling the Wagons to the brim with Boyz, some MANz, or even Burna Boyz or Tankbustas is highly threatening. Starting them off the board allows them to come in off reserves using Outflanking rules, meaning the Tide can keep their attention, but turn 2, you'll have Wagons popping up uncomfortably close.

The Tide shouldn't be the distraction. It really should be the giant green fist that finishes them off. The rest of your army needs to be threatening or hard hitting, because if it doesn't help soften their forces up, the Tide will become too weak to finish the job. But on the other hand, if they do focus on the tide, the rest of your forces need to be able to do what the tide couldn't.

It's a tricky formation on a whole. Tau can do well against most Ork trickery.

SGTPozy wrote:

 total0 wrote:
I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

I'm asking how other people would have dealt with it, if you are not going to stay on topic then please do not post.

If you bring up your opponents attitude in the original post, I would say its on topic to clarify and comment on. In fact, I think you put in in there to get peoples reactions on it.

I'd castle up, shoot him (Vindicator, Heldrake) and wait for him to get close before charging with plague marines and cultists.
Tarpit his tarpit

 Fayric wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

 total0 wrote:
I know this post is about me but my comment hasn't been shown accurately. My complaint on the list was the way in which the army is able to completely destroy orks, not the way he castled up. I commented on how (as we were playing length ways) how the army deployed basically within 6-9" of the board edge giving another 12" to move while getting my face blown off in the process. I accepted that a castle was probably the best thimg to do and didnt complain about the tactic but the fact the army has the ability to out perform and run away and shoot (often refered as jsj). I also commented on how i personally believed the ethereal power allowing a 3rd shot should be like guardsmen orders or atleast only models in range as this only requires a lone guy to be near to get the ultra buff.
I also asked advice from pozy as I'm new to orks but all he said was more battle waggons, this would be a waste of points though as my single is always easily killed.

All in all i didnt want bad blood to arise from the game, I'm a new ork player that got annoyed at how well tau can best an opponent, especially when i am developing a way to play them fluidly

I'm asking how other people would have dealt with it, if you are not going to stay on topic then please do not post.

If you bring up your opponents attitude in the original post, I would say its on topic to clarify and comment on. In fact, I think you put in in there to get peoples reactions on it.

It was off topic since I didn't portray my opponent in a bad light and the thread is about what you guys would do in the same situation. This isn't about shaming him or anything and all I said was that he bitched. Does that really need expanding on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I didn't mention my list at all as it is about YOUR lists vs his list, so his complaining about my list and army is off topic.

I thought you only play against gk.

Infantry-IG:

I'd use some of my infantry units to screen the rest of my army. I'd also try to hide my PCSs, so that they can bring their flamers to bear when the enemy closes.

After that, I guess just open fire and use FRFSRF a lot.

Depending on the situation, I might well charge the orks with one or more infantry squads, if I have the opportunity.


Mech IG:

I'd use my Leman Russes and HB Chimeras to whittle the orks from backfield. Meanwhile, my Heavy Flamer Chimeras would cautiously advance and spread out, waiting for an opportunity to bring their Heavy Flamers to bear against the orks. Their contents may or may not disembark at the same time - depending on how confident I am about destroying the remaining orks.


DE:

I'd probably spread out and try to keep my distance - with my Venoms whittling them from about 30" away. My Raiders would likewise keep their distance at first, but may close to 12" later on to try and inflict as much damage as possible. If I have any template weapons, that would probably be a good time to use them.

If I have melee units like Wracks or Grotesques, I'll save them until the orks have been reasonably whittled, and then bring them into the fight (no point throwing them away).

 koooaei wrote:
I thought you only play against gk.

When've I said that? Just because I complain a lot about them (mostly because there are loads of GK players in my area, like I had said before)

Split up and flit around the table, since my units are far more mobile than this green wave. (Dark Eldar)

Bring forward a wall of big Tyranids. Keep the Tyrannocytes close for 5 S6 Blasts from Venom Cannons, let loose the Carnifexen with their 36 shots (twin Dakkafex) and let the Hive Tyrants fire away with templates. Tyranids can gunline too. That sort of opponent is very much the ideal enemy of my bugs. The fleshborers alone would bring them down in droves. Castle up and let them come to you is the ONLY solution to such a headstrong list.

As an ork player, if I knew I was opposing the Green Tide I'd bring all my Big Gunz. Bubblechukkas would be the most effective, anything over a 3 would be happy so 2 out of 3 turns I should be wiping out large circles of his boyz. The kustom mega kannons, lobbas and kannons would be next on my list dropping small templates of doom all over the place. My smasha guns would be good against those wagons but I think I'd only take a couple of those since D6+4 (Avg S 7-8, AP 1) would be stupid overkill on boyz. Zzaps are cheaper and perhaps more reasonable but I really like my smashaz. The rest of the points would go toward boyz for screening (sluggas only, need that extra attack in melee) and as many burnas and skorchas that the remaining points would allow. I'd put my elites in truckks where ever possible so they can move to deal with the specific threats they excel at solving.

Oddly enough that would be what I would take against a Tau force as well. Might swap some boyz for trukks and such to make the force more flexible and I'd go crazy with Meks and Big Meks for fixing vehicles and of course to bring a Shokk Attack Gun but only because they are so fun to shoot. Every time I bring one I get a double six but the Vortex forms off the board or moves off the board on the second turn. I really want one to last for a while moving randomly eating friend and foe alike.

I think I'd try my Weird Boy mixed in with the trukk of Burna Boyz. If I got lucky and rolled Da Jump for a power I'd deploy round one and start trying to deep strike behind them (Ork or Tau) and start burning everything in sight. If they got spammed it wouldn't matter. Against Orks they would tie up part of the tide and against Tau they would cut off an escape route making them easier to catch up to and crush beneath our boots! Either way, what bliss.

Of course some of this depends on what the objectives of the particular battle are. If there are multiple objectives I'd plan my forces to break up making several small units with a chunk of big gunz sitting right on the marker and a ring of boyz around them. I'd use trukks of burnas, tank bustas and boyz to seize objectives and hold them.

If the objective was to obliterate the opponent I'd make a death star with all the artillery in the center with a Mega Armor HQ linked up with them so they can move and shoot. I'd surround them with walls of boyz. They would march forward 6 inches per turn slamming the opposition with wave after wave of blast attacks obliterating foot sloggers. My trukks with specialists would stay to the rear and be ready to react to strong points they are designed to take out. My trukks with specialists would stay to the rear and be ready to react to the strong points they are designed to take out.

Waaaghhh!!!

I'd have a battery of 3 manticores to take them out.

I picked the second opinion over the third simply so you can prevent his furious charge kicking in, keeping the boyz at str3. (Although ive always thought boyz should be str4 base)

Solution:

GUO with nova powers and iron arm. Good luck boyz.

Biovores have always done well against Orks... and Deathspitters, devourers too. I'd enjoy the game!