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Hello all, this is Cothonian, forgive me if I placed this topic in the wrong spot.

Recently for Warhammer 40k I have been wishing to expand my Imperial Guard forces however I literally cannot afford it at the moment. For Imperial Guard I am willing to eventually make the investments to pay for the vehicles as they are complex and detailed things, however for the standard Guardsmen models I have been considering the use of far cheaper proxies.

For the guardsmen I was considering the use of 28mm, mostly WWII themed plastic army men (priced at $4.99 for 70 assorted troops.) These would be primarily used as the bulk, unmodified Lasgun wielding troops, and I would set them up with proper 25mm round bases. The cost of this would be about $6 dollars for 20 stock guardsmen if it were to work out- I already have paints, brushes, and other materials to detail them up in the same manner as my existing guard forces (which are composed of official GW models.)

Now my question is; how acceptable would the use of these models be? I would be painting them up well in the same theme as the rest of existing forces, basing them, and would probably use leftovers from official guard kits to pretty them up. Do you guys think people would be fine with that or is using such models pushing what is reasonable?

Thoughts?

Depends on the person. Some people would be happy to play against it, some won't. You're probably not helping your case by using such low-quality proxies and openly doing it just because it's cheap, not because you have awesome alternate models that you really want to use.

Depends on who and where you're playing them.

In a shop run tourney? Probably not going to fly.

But for casual games with people you know? In my area, when I first started, I only had 30 some odd boys and a trukk and battlewagon. So my first few games, on top of the models I did have; I even had metal washers I had in my pocket from work to fill in the gaps. Works well for Orks because a good chunk of your army is just troops. It was mostly a learning sessions anyways.

Now that I have a decent sized model base, I still proxy a few things now and then just to test them out. I'm not going to blow $250 on Warbikers just to see how they would do. And my friends are fine with that, because a buddy I had a recent game with was proxying models with little green army men and I by no means complained.

Seeing full sized armies on the table with complete bases and awesome paint is great. But sometimes just not doable. Considering the amount of time away from home I have, still a good 1/2 of my army is unpainted. If someone wants to proxy his guard with little green army men, have at er'.

Like I said though, the only place I could see this not flying is at a tournament not run by friends. I can't speak on GW stores because there is none where I am.

Yeah I was definitely not intending on throwing such things into a tournament, that would quite simply be bad form.

In response to Peregrin these would definitely be for cost saving as opposed to really cool alternate models. I would do my best to make sure the cheaper models looked good, primarily though a good paintjob. I'm not going to throw half-painted/bare/inconsistent miniatures down the board, as I would attempt to theme them to the army, and the army to them. Ultimately in the end however the use of these figures in lower costs. So yeah, perhaps if I'm going to do something like this I should exceptional effort into making them look good? (I was planning to anyways, but perhaps I should put more focus into the area.)

Frankly I have an interest in using Imperial Guard Conscripts, however I'm going to have a hard time putting down the money for standard Guard squads when I would literally not use any of the upgrades included in the kit. Essentially I just need more bodies, and a lot of them.





Also upon further inspection I have realized that this topic has in fact been placed in the wrong area of the forums If it could be moved to the right place that would be appreciated.

Play against the folks who don't care. Minis games don't have to be so expensive that the average guy can't play.

Generally, as long as you can tell what it's meant to be and on a suitable base, people don't have a problem with proxies

I don't know what you do for a job but in the time it took to paint/convert up/base these "cheap" models (let's be generous call it 30 mins each)
In the 35 hours to do 70 models could you not just do some overtime or get a paper round/dog walking/car washing?
Even at $5 per hour that's a significant chunk of cash to throw into an army.
Generally I feel that saving money on bad sculpts is a false economy, they take just as long and often longer to paint/prep and just as much in materials to complete as as good models.

Any proxy or heavily converted model can be vetoed by your opponent or tournament organiser/official. If you're gaming at a GW store they can also veto your models as well.

In general its down to individual situations, some people don't mind and others will. In general terms so long as you can tell what everything is and that its different to other things in the army and that your conversions are not looking to use the models shape to gain advantage in the game then you should be ok in most casual games.

Store games they might not fly - and tournaments are half and half depending on how major/local it is.

Alex - even if he can pull overtime to earn more there's also justification to consider. Even if the person has more money that doesn't mean it can just go to hobby purchases.



OP have you considered lurking ebay - you might be able to pick up vintage models for cheap. Chances are you'd just have to paint strip them and might have to clean them up a bit, but its one way to get hold of cheaper models. Imperial Guard are pretty popular so ebay shouldn't be too hard to get models off.

They're all place holders anyway, but yeah, if it's something easily identifiable as a las gun trooper I wouldn't have a problem with it. Can't speak for everyone though, might want to prepare for people to refuse to play and/or be rude to you.

I had an IG force which was entirely converted, probably about 25-50% of each mini was either 3rd-party parts or sculpted, then in terms of 'non-GW' miniatures probably about 25% of the total overall.

In dozens of games played, including in GW store and even Warhammer World, I never once had a complaint about it or anyone refuse to play. In fact, people were normally massively complimentary as they could see the effort that had gone into it.

But, the key here is the effort you put in, and how well it fits into the force. It will either look '40k' or not, and I think that's what people respond to and find acceptable or not, rather than the source of your minis. Historical minis can work well - after all, stuff like Death Korps of Krieg are basically WW1 troopers, and there is a lot of pseudo-historical crossover between reality and fantasy. I think that's a discussion that carries across wargaming, you will see similar comments on historical forums about people using miniatures from the wrong era/colour schemes that are incorrect etc.

If it looks like you have just got a bag of toy army men, thrown them on the table, and said 'Guardsmen - done!' don't be surprised if occassionally people might not be happy to play. As for friendly/local games, well I guess it all depends on your friends and what they expect!

Speaking from outside in, I'd allow it if you wanted to try some stuff before you bought real figures, but not if you want to use cheap stuff because it's cheap. It depends on what you're using though. Little green army men is pushing it for anything other than "I'm thinking of starting a Guard army, want to try them out before I place an order", but some of those nicely detailed WW2 figures I'd have no issue with as long as it's clear what weapons are what. For instance if you wanted to use a Bolt Action WW2 army as Guardsmen proxies I'd have little issue with that, they're a bit smaller but look close enough as long as it was clear what weapons were what and they were easy to identify.

Not in 40k but in Warmachine I frequently proxy other armies or models with models I have or, once, with cardboard cutouts of the bases with names written on them (I was proxying a lot and didn't have enough figures). It wasn't a "I want to play but don't want to spend money" situation but more I wanted to try out a few different units and combinations to determine if I wanted to purchase them.

Doing it all the time though is going to probably get really old and tiresome to most groups in my experience.

If you've spent time painting them to fit a theme, stick with it.
You can fluff it out saying the supply ship with the uniforms and lasguns got lost in the warp, and the army just had to make do.
If the models are the right size, and if all special and heavy weapons are made obvious, there's no reason to worry about it. Stick some GW parts on there, and you've made more effort than a lot of people. There are a lot of knives, belt pouches, grenades, etc in the kits, and you can standardise your filler-models with them.

But, as mentioned, there's always someone who'll object.

Or, only use Vets squads. Pad the army out as you go, but upgrade every model you have to cost more, and you don't need as many.

OP have you considered lurking ebay - you might be able to pick up vintage models for cheap.

Yeah I have for a little while, and it's weird. Maybe it's just bad luck on my part, but every time I go to Ebay for models the used squads cost the same as brand new models, but without all the additional bits. Regardless I'll keep my eyes open there though, I really do enjoy fielding 'proper' troops.

Well in regards to my quest for less expensive proxy troops, I found another option which might fare a little better when it comes to the judgements of other players. Online I have found WWII Russian infantry, 30 for $15. If I used these they would be consistent with the Imperial Guard theme, while being better detailed and cheaper. I could also use leftovers from other Guardsmen kits to arm them properly.

I would have no problem with it. I would lke a few things...
1. decent painting/converting
2. an effort to work in models that at least look right (appropriately armed and the correct size) as you can).

I would also look at a few other things...Do you smoke 2 packs of ciggarettes a day? A weeks worth could buy you a unit plus a little extra. Of course, gaming is also considered a vice by many lol, its a matter of picking which is more important to you. I also see people who say they dont have money to buy models but go out and blow their entire paychecks at the bar on saturday night. Again, the choice of vice is being made. My point is, these people CAN afford the game as that is not $ being put towards needs such as food or rent or electricy and so forth, they just choose to spend it on something else they dont need instead (yes, I lump models into the "dont need" catagory) and feel that going way overboard cheap on models in such a way saying they cant afford it is a cop out. I will play against them regardless, just be honest and say that those other things are more important to you. I would understand and have far more respect for you.

I'm not saying the OP falls into that catagory, I'm just pointing out that often, it is a matter of how $ is spent that could allow you to be able to "afford" more models. I often use less expensive models, usually because they look cool such as the stormtrooper models from another thread or models from other game systems I've used for characters or such warjack converted into a nurgle dread for example.

To me a proxy is something you use on a temporary basis until you get the "correct" model often for trying out units before buying them to see how effective you are with them. To me, a counts as is something you use long term/permenantly that fits your particular fluff or because you just think it looks cooler. My own exampleof this is using the dice holder servo skulls as jokero . My jokero are actually spider monkey size and they build little hovering servo skull warcraft. I it them into my fluff/model theme, it makes sense and cost less $.

if you can make it look right, remain consistant (all the guns matching and so forth so there is no confusion "this bazooka guy is a missile launcher and THAT bazooka guy is a heavy bolter while this flame thrower guy is a flamer and that one is a plasma gun and never mind that they are a foot shorter than the other guards and have different......" go for it.

lol, no smoking or drinking here. Lack of money is due to fuel costs and difficulty getting working hours (college) above anything else. Majority of other frivolous expenses have been cut.

Also I was hoping to use these "proxies" as long term units, primarily to take the place of bulk troops such as Conscripts, units that have no use for the many upgrades that one has to pay for in the normal guard kits. So yeah, some good conversion work on some Russian figurines could work out. I got tons of extra lasguns laying around to equip them with.

When I wanted to fill-out my conscripts I found my local store carried these WAY cheaper than buying the 10-man box:
See if you find these in the area, these are 3 part models including base.