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Hi All!

Can Transports carry Artillery Weapons? I've seen some battle reports on Frontline Gaming where it appears you can (something Astrum Milliterium seemed to do) but I'm not 100% sure.

With regards to Orks Battlewagon. It has a Transport Capacity of 20 models. As Artillery Weapons don't count as bulky units then they shouldn't take up the 2 spaces that models with Mega Armor would.

So, in theory, would I be able to load up a Battlewagon with 5 KMKs, 10 Gunners, 5 ammo runts and a Big Mek with a KFF (or Mega KFF) in Mega Armor (or Super Cyborg Armor) to give the entire unit relentless? It comes to 17 models and would allow the KMKs to move a lot more effective around the field, removing their hindering 36'' range.

It seems like a fantastic plan which, in all sense, should work. Perhaps it's only my Ork imagination which is thinking this though...? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Under Transports : Transport Capacity in the BRB ;

"Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise"

Is artillery classed as infantry? Does the Battlewagon specify it can carry anything other than infantry?

... poop.

Realistically the models don't fit anyway so it does make sense. Thanks for the fast reply!

There are (a very small number) of cases where you can kind of transport artillery.
There are various Imperial Guard Forgeworld artillery pieces with the "artillery carriage" rule. It means the artillery can be towed by their tractor models (c.f. 2nd edition rules). They are not truly "transported", though - they remain on the table, as they are being towed rather than fitting inside the vehicle.
The Rapier Laser Destroyer was (is?) an artillery unit with the "Extremely Bulky" special rule, implying that it can be transported despite its status as artillery (the special "Extremely Bulky" rule overriding the general only-infantry-in-vehicles rules).
The previous version of the Ork codex (I've not read the latest one) could mount various types of big gunz on big vehicle, at the cost of points and some transport capacity. However, the big gunz and crew weren't another unit, they were just another weapon for the vehicle (in the same way that the Imperial Guard could pay points to mount a heavy stubber on a vehicle, but with the added effect of reducing transport capacity).

Mallich wrote:
The previous version of the Ork codex (I've not read the latest one) could mount various types of big gunz on big vehicle, at the cost of points and some transport capacity. However, the big gunz and crew weren't another unit, they were just another weapon for the vehicle (in the same way that the Imperial Guard could pay points to mount a heavy stubber on a vehicle, but with the added effect of reducing transport capacity).

The way you've described this isn't 100% clear, but I know where you're coming from.

The Ork Battlewagon of the current Codex and the last Codex (of 4th ed) allowed you to take (as weapon upgrades) a single big gun. So you could have either a Zzap Kannon, regular Kannon or Lobba. Unfortunately these all fired at BS2 and had no ways of re-rolling any misses (in contast to the true Big Guns/Mek Guns). If the new Battlewagons allowed us to take any of the new Mek Guns as a single upgrade, then even that would be good. That would also justify why the Battlewagons got a points increase for no reason. Alas this is forward thinking, sensible thinking. Something neither Orks or GW seem capable of doing...

Mallich wrote:

The Rapier Laser Destroyer was (is?) an artillery unit with the "Extremely Bulky" special rule, implying that it can be transported despite its status as artillery (the special "Extremely Bulky" rule overriding the general only-infantry-in-vehicles rules).

No, extremely bulky/very bulky/bulky does not in any way override Infantry only. It restricts the Infantry Only even further by making bulky/very/extremely take up more transport space, but it does not remove the restriction of Infantry only in any way.

Only infantry and attached IC's may embark upon a transport, unless the transport specifies otherwise (see C:SM Drop Pods for example). It's as simple as that.

Is that RAW, or HIWPI?

Mallich wrote:
Is that RAW, or HIWPI?

RAW, of course (as well as how we play it here).

Transport rules state exactly what is quoted above;
"Only infantry models can embark upon transports (this does not include jump or jet pack infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise".

Bulky/Very Bulky/Extremely Bulky does not state otherwise, it merely changes how many spots a model takes (those models still remain whatever unit type they were prior).
You still have no permission to embark non-infantry models unless otherwise stated (for example, as the Drop Pod rules provide for embarking infantry, 1 TFC or 1 Dreadnought).

So what is the point of giving an artillery unit the "Extremely Bulky" rule if they are forbidden from using said rule?

Mallich wrote:
So what is the point of giving an artillery unit the "Extremely Bulky" rule if they are forbidden from using said rule?

Because its an appropriate rule for the model.

Mallich wrote:
So what is the point of giving an artillery unit the "Extremely Bulky" rule if they are forbidden from using said rule?

There's potentially Superheavies that could carry it.
Also, it's appropriate.

 Ghaz wrote:
Because its an appropriate rule for the model.

How is it appropriate to give a unit that cannot fit into a transport a rule that specifies how much space it would occupy inside a transport?

EDIT: Ah, I've not thought of superheavies at all. The Crassus and Gorgon do have rules to allow the Extremely Bulky Cyclops (Goliath) demolition vehicles to fit inside (counting as 5 models, as would be expected of Extremely Bulky models), but no mention of rapiers. It could be a case of Forgeworld future-proofing it. That does weaken my argument.

Because the model is Bulky/Very Bulky/ Extremely Bulky. Whether or not a model is capable of embarking doesn't change that.

There is also a Tau Unit which generates a number of Hits based on the 'bulkiness' of the Target.

It also impacts certain other things.

The ForgeWorld Riptide Variant "R'Varna" has a weapon with Cluster Fire...

"Cluster Fire: Very Bulky models, as well as those with the Bike/Jetbike/Beasts/Cavalry type, suffer two hits each from this weapon at an increased Strength of 7. Extremely Bulky and Artillery/Monstrous Creature/Flying Monstrous Creature/Vehicle (any type) models and specifically targeted buildings and fortifications suffer 3 hits each if they are hit by the weapon at an increased Strength of 8."

Granted, Artillery is also covered, but this is an example of why (Very) (Extremely) Bulky is important in non-Transport situations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dangit. Jinx ninja'd me!

Kriswall,
Yours was better... I didn't even name the Unit, let alone post the Rule.

Mallich wrote:
So what is the point of giving an artillery unit the "Extremely Bulky" rule if they are forbidden from using said rule?

As well as the examples given above, maybe in the future some sort of data sheet will pop up for a vehicle that can transport things like artillery, and instead of having to retroactively apply it to different non-infantry units, the size classification will already be in place.

Jinx... I would have posted first if I hadn't been looking up the rule

On a semi-related/unrelated note, I just noticed that the Tau Cluster Fire rule has an internal conflict if you ever had something like a Very Bulky Artillery piece. You'd have to follow instructions for both the Very Bulky bit and the Artillery bit. RaI evidence that all Artillery would be classed as Extremely Bulky were they to give it a Bulky rule?

Understood. I withdraw my earlier objections.

Mallich wrote:
So what is the point of giving an artillery unit the "Extremely Bulky" rule if they are forbidden from using said rule?

Just to nitpick, they're not 'forbidden' from using the rule. There is simply no current application for it.

Artillery can ride in any transport that specifically allows artillery to ride.