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Played my first game of 7th edition yesterday. My opponent and I really just wanted to try out units from IA:13 and see how they fare against a competitive Eldar list.

This isn't a battle report so much as an account of the differences between Codex CSM and IA:13 armies. We played a friendly game using ~2200 points on each side (yes if you add up the points you will find we both went over).

The Eldar player brought a list that looked like this:

Spiritseer
Farseer with some artefact
3 x 5 Wraithguard, Wave Serpent with Scatterlaser, Holofields
4 x 10 Guardians with Shuriken Cannon, Wave Serpent with Scatterlaser, Holofields
3 x 3 War Walkers
... and some other things I can't remember

I brought a CSM list with 2 CADs that looked like this:

CAD 1 - Black Legion

Sorcerer, lvl 3 Psyker, Sigil, Bike, Eye of Night, Familiar
2 x 10 Chosen, MoS, 5 Flamers
Spartan Assault Tank, Lascannon sponsons
3 x Sicaran Battle Tanks with Lascannon sponsons, Havok launcher

CAD 2 - CSMs

DP of Nurgle, Wings, Black Mace, Lvl 3 psyker
2 x 20 cultists
Fire Raptor
Laspred
2 x Rapier Weapons Batteries, Conversion Beamers

We played a maelstrom of war mission and I ended up losing because I was mostly focused on shooting up Eldar units. I went second and was able to withstand a round of Waveserpent shots with only losing cultists. The bottom of turn one turned into a firefight where I was able to kill 3 Waveserpents through combined shooting from the Sicarans and the Eye of Night. By the time we reached turn 3, there was only one Waveserpent still left on the board.

Something that made it really hard for my Eldar friend and his Wraithguard was the rapier weapon batteries with the conversion beamers. They have different profiles than the ones that come on dreadnoughts and have their max range at 48 inches. This made it very hard for him to make effective use of his Wraithguard and they did not really play a role in the outcome, they were just there to be shot up.

The Fireraptor was pretty magnificent, being able to split fire from the turrets turned it into a real force multiplier. It killed the spiritseer the same turn it blew up an entire unit of War Walkers.

At the end of the game, I had killed about 75% of his army and still had about 60% of mine. I think his list was just not set up to answer what I was bringing, otherwise it would have been very different.

What was so interesting about playing with a list built around the IA:13 units was that this was a long-range firefight from the start, the CSM weapons just did a number on everything the Eldar had. I pushed him into needing to footslog across the board and had heavy artillery pieces that allowed me to whittle down his forces before they could pull anything off. There was one assault all game and that was my DP smashing his last Waveserpent near the end. My Sorcerer did a fair amount of summoning throughout the game, and having extra horrors on the board did give me some advantages.

For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

If you have more points next game throw in Kharne's Butcherhorde. Ouch.

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.

Yes, true. I have fought many battles where my army did not get close enough to launch an assault against similar Eldar lists.

The point of this really was to describe a new way of playing CSMs based around long range firepower that destroys threats from distance. It's the first time I actually tested any of the units spelled out in IA:13 and found it to be completely different from how I used to play CSMs.

 wuestenfux wrote:
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Yes, this is true. I generally found success against Tau and Eldar when I was able to use cover to get in close, or when I was able to drop in using deep strike rules. Frontal assaults never worked because of their efficiency shooting, and affordable long range firepower did not really exist in CSM armies.

One thing that was particularly appealing about the MoS Chosen was the fact they could charge out of a Spartan, shoot something up with bolt pistols, then charge and hit at a high initiative. Admittedly, they were charging Guardians and there's really not a challenge there, but it's important to understand I was getting the chance to charge the weakest units instead of the strongest (since the Sicarans already ate them up beforehand). This made a huge difference in the effectiveness of the troops, you could almost say there's a synergy there.

The Rapier Weapon Batteries were particularly devastating at 48 - 32 inch range. I can't really say enough about them - while my opponent was focused on trying to take out the tanks, the rapiers were mostly being ignored. The Conversion Beamers ate their targets, Str 10 large blasts are no joke and made a huge difference in what could get near my army. I don't remember the Wraithguard actually killing anything on my side, even the Cultists were all killed by Waveserpents.

Like I said before, if the Eldar army was tweaked a little bit and if my opponent did a better job assigning target priority, this would have been a very different game. As it stands, the CSMs tanks + weapons batteries + Fireraptor were able to eat what seems like a fairly tough list. I don't know if I would want to play this specific list again (or if it's really enough to make me want to play 7th edition in the first place), but it was very promising.

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

Just be ready to say D'oh when the plan fails.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

Just be ready to say D'oh when the plan fails.

No plan is perfect. Maybe a squad of Sanguinary Guard with a couple Power Fists paired with a Sanguinary Priest for some +1WS and FNP might be better.

Best Wave Serpent killers are things that can get around the cover save, can put out silly volume of S7+, and/or are fast enough to get up close. With CSM I'd figure on Raptors, loading stuff into an evil Storm Eagle, allying in/summoning Screamers, or Hell Blades (115pts, six autocannon shots on a flyer) off the top of my head.

3x Sicaran. This is what will give any army an edge over serp spam. The sicaran was designed to annihilate serps!
You made some excellent choices with your IA:13 units!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have you thought about taking hades instead of conversion beamers?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

In cc Serpents are very vulnerable.
Even krak grenades are sufficient.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

In cc Serpents are very vulnerable.
Even krak grenades are sufficient.

Trick is getting there. Bikes and Jump Packs are your friend.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
For SM or CSM it is usually an uphill battle against mech Eldar.
What can help against Serpent spam are fast moving units that can hit them in cc.

Wait, does that mean that Death Company would be good for popping WS? Give one of them a Power Fist and charge head-on into it?

In cc Serpents are very vulnerable.
Even krak grenades are sufficient.

Trick is getting there. Bikes and Jump Packs are your friend.

It has been brought to my attention that DC get JPs for dirt cheap now...

As to the topic, the Sicaran is probably the best way to bring down a Wave Serpent using CSM. The main cannon is tailor-made to kill them.

Yeah Sicaran is win.
@OP, you obviously loved the conversion beamer Rapier.
What are your thoughts on the laser destroyer? Cheaper but no large blast.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Best Wave Serpent killers are things that can get around the cover save, can put out silly volume of S7+, and/or are fast enough to get up close. With CSM I'd figure on Raptors, loading stuff into an evil Storm Eagle, allying in/summoning Screamers, or Hell Blades (115pts, six autocannon shots on a flyer) off the top of my head.

I would be okay with renaming IA:13 Eldar Killing Good Times Fun Happy Book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
3x Sicaran. This is what will give any army an edge over serp spam. The sicaran was designed to annihilate serps!
You made some excellent choices with your IA:13 units!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have you thought about taking hades instead of conversion beamers?

Yes, the Sicarans seem to be the perfect serpent killers. They lay out so many S7 shots that you can get past the shields without too much of a problem.

I did think about using other rapier weapons, but I actually have 9 conversion beamer models so that was an easy decision. The thing I liked about them was the S 10 blasts at 48 inches, there's something about that range that suited the rest of the army. Just as the Sicarans were good at wrecking Waveserpents, the Rapiers were good at killing Wraithguard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Yeah Sicaran is win.
@OP, you obviously loved the conversion beamer Rapier.
What are your thoughts on the laser destroyer? Cheaper but no large blast.

My thoughts are exactly that, cheaper but no blast. I see the Conversion Beamer as the thing that kills really tough infantry squads with a couple unlucky saves. The template makes a difference there, what would have made me want Laser Destroyers would have been having to face a Jetbike Seer Council. They would have been able to get past S10 range in a single round.

do you have access to anvillus pattern drop pods?

their heat blast attack is epic!

maybe an admech allied detachment?

MOAR THALLAX!!!

SirDonlad wrote:
do you have access to anvillus pattern drop pods?

their heat blast attack is epic!

maybe an admech allied detachment?

MOAR THALLAX!!!

No. I am stupid about certain things FW but not all.