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I run Grey Knights and abuse the Nemesis Strike Force to put terminators / dreadknights up close and personal.

From my research I feel like I have two real options in this:

Space Marines (either ultra marines for Sicarius or iron hands for FNP and IWND) to run Predators / heavy weapons squad (which will man my bunker w/ comm relay)

OR

Imperial Guard

Cheap / plentiful troops

Leman Russ Main Battle Tank / Vindicator

My thoughts are that Predators are quite a bit cheaper, have BS4.... and yes I have to take some basic assault marines but they aren't exactly bad in a rhino either.

As much as I like predators, they never perform well for me. Their side AV being a big weakness. So with that, go guard, throw in some Valkyrie/Vendettas (can never remember which one is better) and Lemans to put the hurt on high AV targets.

Get BA fast tri-las preds. Tri-las preds rarely expose their sides, because of 48" range weapons. BA also bring an element of speed to your list. You also grab some MM attack bikes, which are still quite good despite the points bump.

I feel like speed isn't really the issue with the whole of the grey knights able to deep strike in first turn.. but yes - tri las is what I was looking at.... Hrmmm.. blood angels.

marinecorpstim wrote:
I feel like speed isn't really the issue with the whole of the grey knights able to deep strike in first turn.. but yes - tri las is what I was looking at.... Hrmmm.. blood angels.

BA can deep strike, too. And can bring cheap flamers and melta.

Imperial Guard have more than enough ways to kill tanks and are some of the best all around allies for any imperial army.

Vendettas, veterans with meltaguns in chimeras, tank commander in a leman russ vanquisher, platoons with krak grenades, and many more choices exist in guard. Besides that they have some of the best slot efficiency in the game, platoons can put at least one hundred models in a slot if given the points. Guard are the best allies to build on as well. They have slot efficiency which grants them the ability to be great allies.

Also most of there stuff is dirt cheap points wise when compared to marines leaving more room for grey knights or whatever the hell else you feel like adding to the list.

Melta spamming Legion of the Damned make an excellent ally to GK NSF themed army. They can DS + re-roll scatter next to enemy tanks and unleash cover ignoring Melta Madness. Pop the toughest targets starting on turn 2!

<this holiday message brought to you by the hidden forces of the Light!>

SJ

I think Sisters are an even better pairing lately. As I increasingly found the Space Wolf allie less synergistic than I hoped (I really don't think the borrowed Drop-Pod Purifiers are as good as I wanted them to be), I realized Sisters of Battle offer good, cheap back-field bodies than can be very hard to shift.

Sisters w/ a Priest reroll saves and essentially hold the backfield so that Knights can double down on their GO GO GO tactics (DeepStrikes and Shunts!!!)

And then you get access to the Exorcist which is just terrific, and helps immensely with Tank-busting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, plus Scouting Dominions which really can do Tank-busting while doubling down on the GK strategy of just blitzing the front-lines in a mass alpha-strike.

Are you running the GKs in a NSF?


If so, take an Iron Hands CAD with a MotF, 5 man scout squads, and a Sicarian.

Yes NSF for sure.

Also I have been putting down an imperial bunker w/ comm relay to ensure my deep strike reserves hit turn 1. (75 pts)

I have been manning it with an inquisitor and plasma cannon servitors to use it as a fire base. but if I went Iron Hands, I would go heavy weapons squad with missile launchers or plasma cannons.

Sicarian?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also looking at an Imperial Knight Paladin or two

Tempestus? Melta scions?

Some of the most effective allies I have found are;

Imperial Guard
*Hunter CCS with 4 plasma in a vendetta or stormraven. This unit drops out of the flyer when it enters and only needs to get within 12" (thus the plasma rather than melta which usually scatters out of range). The unit can then give itself tank hunters and rip apart most AV12 vehicles. If the vehicle is a waveserpent then I recommend using ignore cover instead. The best part of this unit is that it is great against both MC and vehicles. The bad part is it cannot hurt AV14. Elysian Drop Troops do this so much better as they get DS automatically.
*Demolition vets w/ 3 meltaguns in a stormraven. The storm raven drops into hover mode and the demo vets shoot an charge their target. This unit is death to any vehicle including super heavies and imperial knights. It is still moderately useful against MC as well.
*Rapier Destroyer Las Array Battery x3 + Yarrick or CCS This is a pretty tough and hard hitting source of anti tank for relatively cheap. The orders give it access to ignore cover and tank hunters which is great and keeps the unit from getting pinned (yarrick is better so the unit doesn't run from a casualty or two).
*Heavy Artillery Carriage Medusa w/ bastion breacher shells. I recommend taking this with Yarrick as well to give it ignore cover. Placed correctly this unit can and will remove a waveserpent a turn or near kill an imperial knight in a single turn. Absolutely brutal damage and tough to kill at range.
*Heavy Artillery Carriage Earthshaker + Yarrick. This one can fire out of LoS, has incredible range, and will almost never miss targeted vehicles. With tank hunters it is a serious threat to any AV value and it bypasses the knight's shield most of the time with good placement of the blast markers. With ignore cover this unit will almost average a waveserpent dead a turn.

The best part of this is that you can take a Hunter CCS, Demo Vets, Vendetta, and one of the artillery units as an allies choice.

Sisters of Battle
*Dominions w/ 4 meltagunas, combi melta, and repressor or rhino. They scout forward and blow something up with their melta. They also have ignore cover AoF. A fun trick you can pull is to put a GK character with a beacon in the unit so you can land your units around it. The GK character can also tank wounds for it.
*Repentia...I know. If you already are taking a stormraven then putting a minimum size unit of repentia in it is a great way to take care of imperial knights. Even a minimum unit of repentia will give an imperial knight fits or open up a landraider and they are cheap so loosing the unit is negligible.

Imperial Knights
*The paladin is decent against light transports at range and will annihilate most vehicles in melee.
*The errant is better against AV13-14 and 2+ save units at range. You loose a fair amount of flexibility though.
*The Lancer is very good at killing other imperial knights in close combat. It looses a large amount of flexibility though.
*The castigator is good against light vehicles but is not good against vehicles in melee like the other imperial knights.

Hope some of those help you. DA and SM have some decent options but are overall less useful against vehicles than the options I listed, excluding the grav centurion star of course.

I also use Grey Knights with allies and bunker and I can highly recommend C:SM sentinels of terra. I'm currently running centurions because they look and work amazing with GK, allowing me to represent basically every form of TDA in my army.

My other anti tank units are las devs inside a bunker with comms and ammo store, among other things.

I can also highly recommend the sicaran with mars legacy.

marinecorpstim wrote:
I have been manning it with an inquisitor and plasma cannon servitors to use it as a fire base. but if I went Iron Hands, I would go heavy weapons squad with missile launchers or plasma cannons.

Did you want to make this purely anti tank, or more of a general fire base? Lascannons tend to be worth the extra points if your goal is to take down armor, as plasma can't glance 14 and missiles are only AP3. If anything, take 2 plasma/missile and 2 las.

Knight Errant alongside 2 NDK

What's wrong with GK's anti-tank potential?

Psycannons and heavy psycannons have rending and are all able to penetrate AV 14.

Doom hammers on just about anything make you a beast in CC vehicle hunting aswell (which should be possible with turn 1 deepstrikes).

Because they can't do it at range, any veteran Daemonhunter knows that this is their biggest pitfall.

You can run BA's and take predators and take dropods for your purifiers, which is always nice bonus.

If you want to be more fluff friendly however, you can take Inquisitors and take 3 jokaero, 3 melta gun acolytes, 3 multimelta servitors, a psyker to twin link everything with div, and a priest to let you re roll to wound rolls all running around in an inquisitorial chimera for 267 a squad. That doesn't include the 25 point inquisitor, that you can stick on something else as a level I div psyker, or stick it in the chimera and replace the psyker with something else. and you can repeat the unit up to 3 times.

@ 1500 points I can take

1 librarian
2 strike squads
1 imperial knight
(700 points bare bones total)

AND
2 Storm Ravens (400)
2 Dread Knights w tele / sword / flamer (380)

Libby
2 NDK (Pack, Psycannon, Incinerator)
1 Knight Errant

Funny how your "core" can start outside your "core units"

I'd add 10 Termies and then build out from there


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And I'd make it a Nemesis Strike Force.

Among your Battle Brothers:

Imperial Guard. Valkyries loaded with melta-Veterans can get up to tanks quickly and hit them pretty hard. It's pricey (215pts for a Valkyrie and its cargo before any other upgrades), alternately with the same models Elysians give you melta-Veterans with native Deep Strike and D99 gives you Deep Striking melta-Veterans in Valkyries that automatically come in turn one; Chimeras are an option but they're underarmoured and if they're the only threat to your opponent's vehicles they're going to become target #1 very quickly. Militarum Tempestus gets you melta-veterans with five-man squad size caps and native Deep Strike cheaply, this might be the best quick stopgap in Guard without needing to go to Forge World. Pros: Fast, gets your stuff where it needs to be, provides decent AA. Cons: Expensive, if you don't kill stuff your T3 Guardsmen are going to die.

Space Marines. Melta/Grav Bikes or Melta/Grav infantry in Drop Pods. They've got a bigger bodies tax than Guard do (more points and more guys per gun) but they also do more damage than Guard to things other than their initial target. The Storm Talon is a fabulous cheap Flyer that can credibly threaten medium vehicles. Pros: Unparalleled actual killing power, very reliable. Cons: Very expensive.

Sisters of Battle. Not great simply because their anti-vehicle tricks work best when they're Allied with someone that can give them a delivery mechanism. They'd work best alongside you with ground forces, MM Immolators getting cheap dual-Melta Sisters squads into the fray; you're paying about 140pts for one of these, so they've got great melta density pretty cheaply, even in an Allied detachment. Pros: Lots of cheap melta, native Ignores Cover if Eldar are bothering you. Cons: Expensive models, two five-man Battle Sisters squads with transports and an HQ are going to run you under five hundred points and about $150 new from GW.

Inquisition. You can get an insane amount of AT guns in one squad but that squad is going to be comically expensive and incredibly fragile. You do have access to Valkyries if you absolutely need to kill one thing very very dead, but most of what they do you can do cheaper or more effectively with Guard. Pros: No chaff models, you can get three meltaguns and six multi-meltas in one squad at under two hundred points, Valkyries for delivery. Cons: Every single model has to be bought individually (the super-melta squad I mentioned? Easily over $120 depending on what you do for Acolytes), everyone's T3 and BS3 which is not what you want to hear for the amount of cash and points you're sinking into this.

Imperial Knights. ...If you really want to, but then we've got bigger problems.


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Your only Allies of Convenience are Craftworld Eldar, they're best at engaging light vehicles but a minimum Fire Dragon squad in a Wave Serpent and a unit of Bright Lance War Walkers are certainly better at taking out big things than GK are.

Your Desperate Allies are Tau, who contribute Deep Striking melta Crisis suits and Hammerheads at a reasonable price, and Dark Eldar, whose primary advantage in the AT department is that they have more Dark Lances than you do.

I'm not going to go into your Come the Apocalypse Allies because your Desperate Allies and Allies of Convenience are "?" enough on the lore front, but I hope that helps.

Sisters need an anti-tank delivery system? That's news to me. :-p Outflanking Dominions ARE the delivery system, and Exorcists are delivering from across the table, on turn 1. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Sisters need an anti-tank delivery system? That's news to me. :-p Outflanking Dominions ARE the delivery system, and Exorcists are delivering from across the table, on turn 1. :-p

Regular Battle Sisters don't have one in contrast to Deep Strike/Valkyries/Drop Pods available to Troops in other Imperial forces, Outflanking Dominions are definitely good but they're not quite as point-and-click as the faster anti-armour and on average they have to weather a bit more fire before making it to melta range. Exorcists are solid, especially if you've got bigger threats up in the enemy's face from turn one Deep Striking GK.

Comment was from the perspective of an Allied detachment, I'm looking for things to recommend that can come with some redundancy which means squadrons and Troops.