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Hello All,

I play a fair amount of small point lists either due to a team game or just for the fact my opponents doesn't have many models to play with. With this I struggle again Marines and Tau Crisis suits with there Armor 3+. In these low point games my group doesn't allow flyers and a 14 facing armor in a friendly game meaning I can't bring Leman Russ's. I do not know what to bring to handle the 3+ armor. Last time I tried to bring hell hounds against the Crisis Suits and they barley made it to turn 3. What types of units would you guys recommend?

A few ways to go, appeal to Thor good nature and bring a russ, they die with a crack grande in their arse, lots f lasguns or special weapons squads with plasma. Scions are ok against marines, a command squad with prefered enemy order can spit out 14 s4 ap 3 shots re rolling 1s to wound and hit all for 125 pts

How small of a game are you playing that they wont let you bring Leman Russes? 500 or lower?

 Bubbles wrote:
How small of a game are you playing that they wont let you bring Leman Russes? 500 or lower?

This is for games 750 points or smaller.

Is drowning them in First-Rank-Firing Conscripts an option? After all, if you can't use tanks, the other Guard stereotype is all the bodies. Put a Commissar in there, maybe spring for a Psyker to Prescience (or go biomancy to try and buff your 50 scrubs who washed out of Guardsman Basic!), and unleash lasgun hell.

They have to fail some of those armor saves...

Alternatively, Veterans in a transport of some kind with the Demolitions doctrine and meltaguns can be fun. Crisis Suits are T4, right? If you can get them close, a demo charge works wonders. Might be a big if, though...

Seems a bit silly that they wont allow Leman Russes... I can understand not allowing flyers, but Russes are one of the backbones of the guard codex. If they're not gonna let Russes in, tell them to not allow Crisis Suits either. Jump Shoot Jump is more OP than a Russ imo, especially since they can jump around all day avoiding combat whereas the Russ folds like a tissue with Krak Grenades up its clacker.

Otherwise the easiest way to defeat 3+ armour without AP3 is to just swamp them in dice. Combine some Infantry squads so you have a 40-50man blob and give them First Rank Second Rank order. Maybe give each squad an Autocannon team or something too.

Dont forget Veteran Squads can take 3 plasma guns too.

Santange11 wrote:
I play a fair amount of small point lists either due to a team game or just for the fact my opponents doesn't have many models to play with. With this I struggle again Marines and Tau Crisis suits with there Armor 3+. In these low point games my group doesn't allow flyers and a 14 facing armor in a friendly game meaning I can't bring Leman Russ's. I do not know what to bring to handle the 3+ armor. Last time I tried to bring hell hounds against the Crisis Suits and they barley made it to turn 3. What types of units would you guys recommend?

Guard use their Tanks to battle heavy armor enemies, so I would take a Leman Russ (or two), and simply play them as AV13 on the front.

Yeah, you're paying for AV14, but you're only playing AV13.

Wyverns! Force them to take tons of saves. Basalisks eliminate suits nicely as well, but for more points.

No AV14 is a bit silly. Land Raiders and Leman Russes both have AV14 but the Russ is significantly easier to destroy (especially with crisis suits). Plead a case to your group, perhaps.

I am not too concerned with the no Leman Russ thing since it is only for friendly games against new players or allied matches against newer players. Also I am trying to take this as an opportunity to see what else the Imperial Guard has to offer. For a blob I was of using two identical platoons with autocannons, flamers, and one power ax lead by a CCS with two priest and everyone with vox casters at 500 pts. This give me decent fire power and anyone stupid enough to charge will have a power ax and priest bonus.

My last battle was 1250 pts of Guard as 1 HQ & 2 Troops (CCS & 2 Platoons) for 99 Guardsmen & 4 Chimeras. I didn't win, but I had a blast playing them.

Bring artillery, hide it out of los and bauble wrap it with cheap bodies.

Missile launchers with Fire on my Target to have them ignore cover and backed with a Divination psyker for re-rolls and Str8 Ap3 shots galore.

Bane wolf those bitches.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Missile launchers with Fire on my Target to have them ignore cover and backed with a Divination psyker for re-rolls and Str8 Ap3 shots galore.

Missile launchers are a terrible purchase and should never be taken in a guard army. You either get autocannons for volume of fire and stripping hull points off of transports/trying to tag fliers, or you go for the serious power with a lascannon. Missile launchers are bad against all targets pretty much. `

Majsharan wrote:Bane wolf those bitches.

Are these still good without the torrent and what in the minimum I should run in a squad? I like the idea of them, but the lack of torrent makes them seem too fragile.

HandofMars wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Missile launchers with Fire on my Target to have them ignore cover and backed with a Divination psyker for re-rolls and Str8 Ap3 shots galore.

Missile launchers are a terrible purchase and should never be taken in a guard army. You either get autocannons for volume of fire and stripping hull points off of transports/trying to tag fliers, or you go for the serious power with a lascannon. Missile launchers are bad against all targets pretty much. `

For my heavy weapons teams I almost always go with autocannons because of the multiple shots due to the standard guardsmen low ballistic skill. If I know I am facing heavier armor I will bring lascannons.

Santange11 wrote:
Are these still good without the torrent and what in the minimum I should run in a squad? I like the idea of them, but the lack of torrent makes them seem too fragile.

No. The Bane Wolf is garbage. Don't be fooled by AP 3, the lack of torrent means you're getting a lot fewer hits than the Hellhound and usually inflicting fewer total wounds. Unless your opponent is stupid and puts expensive MEQ units into perfect template formation and then lets you drive an AP 3 template up next to them the Hellhound is almost always the better option.

For my heavy weapons teams I almost always go with autocannons because of the multiple shots due to the standard guardsmen low ballistic skill.

This is a popular myth, but it's wrong. How many shots a weapon has and what BS the firing model has are two entirely independent things, and multi-shot weapons are not better on low-BS models than single-shot weapons. Yes, you're more likely to get at least one hit with the AC, but the LC is more likely to do something when it does hit. In most situations the LC is the clear winner, unless you're really desperate to save points.

Fear not! The guard always have an answer to any situation! No fliers and armour 14 in a small friendly game sounds very reasonable in my opinion and as always you have more than enough options in that beauty of a codex. I can think of three easy solutions that I would employ and are listed below. A few more solutions are popping into my head, but are less reliable to me.

Solution#1: FIRST RANK FIRE! SECOND RANK FIRE! - One of the absolute truths of this game I have learned is that it matters not how well you do so much as how bad your opponent rolls. Shoot a terminator with a lasgun and land a wound? Well then you gotta count on him rolling a 1. Fire SEVENTY TWO LASGUNS at the same terminator and suddenly you laugh handing him the dice. Same rule applies to every-single-thing you can wound with a lasgun. Seriously do not underestimate how much damage these things can do. Armour saves matter little when you hand him buckets of dice to roll. So as others have said - blob squad! My setup is four squads, each with a flamer (for wall of fire) and an autocannon (for light armour) rolled together in one blob with a commissar (priests are better for CC, but no GTG!) and at least one pskyer throwing out Divination love. With orders you got yourself a stew brewing. My advice? 50 man blob with lascannons ally in Azreal from DA codex to give them 4++ and a priest to keep them in line. March them across the battlefield as your vets race around to distract them long enough for death.

So say you face a crisis suit unit. They have three suits with a shield drone and five gun drones. What do you do? Just point and pray! Autocannons force the drones to take the inv save from the shield drone and crisis suits are already rolling +3 saves, so just force them to take as many as possible. That is the secret to guardsmen - no matter what evil in the world it can be brought down by lasguns and lascannons. Side note: I take two heavy weapons teams extra with lascannons. Got a problem? Lascannon.

Solution#2: Veterans are your friends! Take a squad of ten with three plasma guns in a chimera. Pricey, but taking down infantry is easy with these guys. Close the top, face the front forward, and drive to the threat. Plasma guns with rapid fire become amazing. Throw in a pskyer or just barebones is fine. Those lasguns can do work, just hope the opponent rolls bad. Remember -3+ is a 1/3 chance and I like those odds. Now a vet squad can be pricey with camo cloaks, doctrines, weapons, ect. Even just a squad with two plasma in a chimera can do work. Here is a hint though: two of everything is the way of the guard. One squad can be focused, two become a problem.

Solution#3: Where guardsmen can not - the Officio Prefectus can. Hot-shot lasguns roll out the hurt for MEQs so load up a chimera filled with stormtroopers or deep-strike them in and watch a squad be wiped off the map. I face Necrons a ton and love to deep-strike a unit of these guys in close and watch the robots drop. Pricey and can die to a stiff breeze if they fall out of their METAL BAWKS. Remember orders work for these guys so get a command squad near one and watch as the shots fly out. Same vein of the vet squad as you want to hide them and strike when the time is right. Just note that against crisis suits they are not optimal due to shield drones. I would rather have a mass fire of lasguns than fewer shots forcing them to take a 4+ instead of a 3+.

Hope this information helps. Playing guard is a complex endeavor that requires you to forfeit human life and spend hours optimizing the perfect strategy - only to watch a riptide tear it all apart. Know that we have an amazing codex and when mastered you will be the bane of the tabletop. Remember to praise the Emperor. Good luck!