Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After hesitating a long time to get into WHFB my buddies settled the question and bought me the Warhost of Naggaroth as starting point. Now I am looking to expand from the box into something a bit more viable for the usual point value of games and tournaments in my area. Here is a list of roughly where I am going and I would like to hear comments as to what could be ajusted and why given I am starting there is lots I still ignore.

2400 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 320 pts)
. . 1 Supreme Sorceress, (Level 4 Wizard)
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 Ring of Hotek (Magic Resistance (3))
. . . . 1 Ruby Ring of Ruin (Fireball)
. . . . 1 The Lore of Dark Magic

Master (2#, 184 pts)
. . 1 Master, (Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak)
. . . . 1 Cloak of Twilight
. . . . 1 Dark Pegasus

Master (1#, 144 pts)
. . 1 Master, (Battle Standard Bearer;Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak; Shield)
. . . . 1 War Banner

Corsairs (30#, 350 pts)
. . 30 Black Ark Corsairs, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Additional Hand Weapon)

Darkshards (10#, 140 pts)
. . 10 Darkshards, (Musician Mus; Shield)

Darkshards (10#, 140 pts)
. . 10 Darkshards, (Musician Mus; Shield)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
. . 5 Dark Riders, (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Shield)
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
. . 5 Dark Riders, (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Shield)
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Har Ganeth Executioners (20#, 280 pts)
. . 19 Har Ganeth Executioners, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std)
. . . . 1 Draich Master
. . . . 1 Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming Attacks)

Cold One Knights (5#, 160 pts)
. . 5 Cold One Knights, (Musician Mus)
. . . . 5 Cold One

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
. . 5 Doomfire Warlocks
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
. . 5 Doomfire Warlocks
. . . . 5 Dark Steed


Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 320 (0 - 600)
Points of Rare: 250 (0 - 600)
Points of Heroes: 328 (0 - 600)
Points of Core: 850 (600 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 650 (0 - 1200)

Total Roster Cost: 2398

I'd invest in more direct protection (ward saves) for your characters. The Ring of Hotek is nice, but doesn't protect you from sniping shooting, close combat wounds, miscasts, etc.

War banner points are better spent on more troops to inflict more wounds. Those execs are a bit small, I'd start there.

Darkshards don't really need shields unless they are fielded in larger units, 10 want a musician and that's it.

I want to like cold one knights, but I think their job is better done by fast cav (flanking, war machine hunting) or executioners (str 6 smashing).

kooshlord wrote:
I'd invest in more direct protection (ward saves) for your characters. The Ring of Hotek is nice, but doesn't protect you from sniping shooting, close combat wounds, miscasts, etc.

War banner points are better spent on more troops to inflict more wounds. Those execs are a bit small, I'd start there.

Darkshards don't really need shields unless they are fielded in larger units, 10 want a musician and that's it.

I want to like cold one knights, but I think their job is better done by fast cav (flanking, war machine hunting) or executioners (str 6 smashing).

Knights and executioners do two VERY different things. Knights are monster killers. Executioners are monstrous infantry/cavalry killers. They both need different support and fill separate roles.

Knights can only kill blocks if they have character and magic support.

What role do Knights fill these days? All I can come up with are monster hunters/flankers. But horded execs kill monsters just fine in my experience, and units of 10+ knights become a priority target.

kooshlord wrote:
What role do Knights fill these days? All I can come up with are monster hunters/flankers. But horded execs kill monsters just fine in my experience, and units of 10+ knights become a priority target.

Monster hunters. Executioners can do it, but as they get no rerolls, they can fail due to a small frontage/number of attacks. At which point they get thunderstomped off the board.

Whereas Knights have rerolls, and the same strength, and can't be thunderstomped.

So a level 4, 2 level 2's and a bound 3?
Looks a bit over-board on magic to me.
You could trim down some of that and still have an effective magic phase.

My regular opponent is doing 2 blocks of warlocks and a level 1 with scroll.
It frees up 215 points, which can put another whole threat on the table.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
So a level 4, 2 level 2's and a bound 3?
Looks a bit over-board on magic to me.
You could trim down some of that and still have an effective magic phase.

My regular opponent is doing 2 blocks of warlocks and a level 1 with scroll.
It frees up 215 points, which can put another whole threat on the table.

No offense, but how does he get magic off? Assuming average rolls for magic, anyone with a level 4 can deny him all his spells.

Warlocks are good, but they're not a phase carrier. You could have 8 units, and they still wouldn't be.

Peg master should have a lance instead of a great weapon, since you want him getting the most out of those first-round attacks (which means not giving up your rerolls).

Is the warbanner really worth making your BSB so vulnerable? I'd rather give him some protective equipment.

Otherwise list seems alright.

Revised version, here goes:

I have the choice of either raising the Executioners to 27 or the Cold ones to 8. Pros/Cons?

2400 Pts - Dark Elves Roster

Supreme Sorceress (1#, 290 pts)
. . 1 Supreme Sorceress, (Level 4 Wizard)
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 Talisman of Preservation
. . . . 1 The Lore of Dark Magic

Master (2#, 182 pts)
. . 1 Master, (Hand Weapon; Halberd; Heavy Armour; Sea Dragon Cloak)
. . . . 1 Cloak of Twilight
. . . . 1 Dark Pegasus

Master (1#, 106 pts)
. . 1 Master, (Battle Standard Bearer; Sea Dragon Cloak) . . . . 1 Enchanted Shield


Corsairs (30#, 350 pts)
. . 30 Black Ark Corsairs, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Additional Hand Weapon)

Darkshards (10#, 130 pts)
. . 10 Darkshards, (Musician Mus)

Darkshards (10#, 130 pts)
. . 10 Darkshards, (Musician Mus)

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
. . 5 Dark Riders, (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Shield)
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Dark Riders (5#, 110 pts)
. . 5 Dark Riders, (Musician Mus; Repeater Crossbow; Shield)
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Har Ganeth Executioners (27#, 364 pts)
. . 26 Har Ganeth Executioners, (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std)
. . . . 1 Draich Master
. . . . 1 Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming Attacks)

Cold One Knights (5#, 160 pts)
. . 5 Cold One Knights, (Musician Mus)
. . . . 5 Cold One

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Reaper Bolt Thrower (3#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Reaper Bolt Thrower
. . . . 2 Dark Elf Crew

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
. . 5 Doomfire Warlocks
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Doomfire Warlocks (5#, 125 pts)
. . 5 Doomfire Warlocks
. . . . 5 Dark Steed

Consider moving the banner of eternal flame to anything but the executioners.

On Darkshards: it negates regen at range, allowing your other shooting to punish regenerators if you shoot first with the banner unit. This might go well with a single larger unit to up the odds of doing a flaming wound.

On Corsairs/COK: their ASF hits before execs. If you get say execs and knights into a regen unit, and the execs have the banner, then the knights attacks still have regen saves. If you have the banner on the knights, they strip regen, and the execs still reap the benefits for the rest of that phase.

On execs, it allows them to strip regen solo. So its not
bad on them, but I think you might get more mileage elsewhere.

kooshlord wrote:
Consider moving the banner of eternal flame to anything but the executioners.

On Darkshards: it negates regen at range, allowing your other shooting to punish regenerators if you shoot first with the banner unit. This might go well with a single larger unit to up the odds of doing a flaming wound.

On Corsairs/COK: their ASF hits before execs. If you get say execs and knights into a regen unit, and the execs have the banner, then the knights attacks still have regen saves. If you have the banner on the knights, they strip regen, and the execs still reap the benefits for the rest of that phase.

On execs, it allows them to strip regen solo. So its not
bad on them, but I think you might get more mileage elsewhere.

Currently you can put the Nurgle Prince in there and the unit dies. The Banner is never a good choice on Execs. The Banner of Swiftness is the best choice.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

kooshlord wrote:
Consider moving the banner of eternal flame to anything but the executioners.

On Darkshards: it negates regen at range, allowing your other shooting to punish regenerators if you shoot first with the banner unit. This might go well with a single larger unit to up the odds of doing a flaming wound.

On Corsairs/COK: their ASF hits before execs. If you get say execs and knights into a regen unit, and the execs have the banner, then the knights attacks still have regen saves. If you have the banner on the knights, they strip regen, and the execs still reap the benefits for the rest of that phase.

On execs, it allows them to strip regen solo. So its not
bad on them, but I think you might get more mileage elsewhere.

Currently you can put the Nurgle Prince in there and the unit dies. The Banner is never a good choice on Execs. The Banner of Swiftness is the best choice.

Two of the worst debuffs in the game are magic attacks and flaming attacks. It's not just Nurgle Princes that will smash that unit, but also remotely hitty character with a dragonhelm/ DBG (most of them, since metal magic) and worse yet K'daii destroyers.

(For our annual club Christmas tournament our TO put a bunch of new joke generic magic items into the pack. One of them was the "Dead Albatross Banner," which granted the unit with flaming and magic attacks. Because truths.)

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Currently you can put the Nurgle Prince in there and the unit dies. The Banner is never a good choice on Execs. The Banner of Swiftness is the best choice.

I'm toying with the Wailing Banner for protection from Terror-bombing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

(For our annual club Christmas tournament our TO put a bunch of new joke generic magic items into the pack. One of them was the "Dead Albatross Banner," which granted the unit with flaming and magic attacks. Because truths.)

Lolz.