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I'm in the process of building an iron warriors/nurgle based list. But I'm having problems with the heavy slots. I don't know what combination to run them in. So, assuming points isn't an issue, and I want to fill all three heavy slots, what is the best combination to run them in? What are people's experiences? I'm contemplating two defilers and a hades fiend. But I know the ect cannons are good. It's a tough choice, so what does dakka reckon?

The rest of the lost includes a warpsmith, typhus, 2x 20 zombies and 3 helbrutes in a mayhem pack. Just to give you some idea of what they're supporting. 2 brutes are fist melta combos and one is dual fists with dual heavy flamers.

Load up on mauler fiends with magma cutters. I dont know why everyone doesnt play them, as theyre fast, hard hitting, and decently durable for a relatively low price. If you take 2, go all cutters. With 3, do a 2-1 split between cutters and lasher tendrils.

your list definitely needs a battle cannon so defiler is a go.

the problem with ectoplasma cannons is that they get hot. even with a 5++ inv. its not a good idea to have 3 of them on your vehicle, so its either hades or maulerfiend.

given how your list lacks anti-air, I'd say take 2 hades fiends which will give you 16 S8 shots to play with. That'll bring down anything from the sky even without skyfire.

Maulerfiends get destroyed when alone. They're hunting tanks, so as they charge at the tank, the tank is just going to blast them off the board. Two Maulerfiends is good, less chance of zero return but still, that's the role for your Mayhem Pack.

Defilers aren't durable. They're just not. Best to skip them because of how much they cost.

Twin Forgefiends give you plenty of shots at a very wide range of targets. Can pulp T4 models and can very easily glance things to death, including aircraft. A much better choice. And since you don't have any real ranged anything or anything fast like Spawn, it's the only choice that makes sense.

Take a look at the updated list, see what you think. I've come away from HQ in zombies and given them bodyguards.

I like to run 2 maulerfeinds with lasher tendrils, and run them as a pair.

they will easily destroy vehicles, they can jump from cover to cover like a jump model but without any terrain tests, so can avoid being shot if you accept that you'll take 1 more turn to get there than a flat 12" move straight ahead every turn.

most importantly though, they will wreck any monsters they fight. if both get into combat, that's -4 attacks for the monster. generally winds up with 1 smash attack, and that's got to hit, pen, get past an invuln and then do something damaging. it makes black mace wielding monsters and lords of change etc much less killy. they also excel at fighting dreadnaughts, due to dropping their attacks to 1.

as you've got an army without anti-air, I'd definitely lean towards two forgefiends and one maulerfiend, but I'd probably opt for a vindicator over the maulerfiend, it fills another hole in the list - killing terminator-type deathstars.

A Defiler can sit back 72" on one extreme corner of the board and thud away its battlecannon all game. And at 4 HP, 5++ inv and IWND, the -2 AV difference to a Land Raider is pretty much evened out.

What I also like about it is you can give it a heavy flamer and an additional DCCW so it can take care of Deep Striking stuff as well...anything that gets close to it or wants to charge it will have to eat a heavy flamer + wall of death + 5 AP2 attacks in close combat and as it's a walker they can only target its front with powerfists or grenades.

 some bloke wrote:


most importantly though, they will wreck any monsters they fight. if both get into combat, that's -4 attacks for the monster.

Don't tendrills lower WS?

 koooaei wrote:

 some bloke wrote:


most importantly though, they will wreck any monsters they fight. if both get into combat, that's -4 attacks for the monster.

Don't tendrills lower WS?

No, that's scourges. Lash tendrils are specific to Maulerfiends and reduce 2 attacks for any model in base contact with it.

So it seems dakka is torn. There seems to be a fighting corner for everything....

Maulerfiends are great in a mellee rush list.

Dakkafiend is overpriced for what it does but both hades and s8ap2 cannons are not bad. Though, i'd rather have a pair of oblits for the price for sheer versatility and durability.

Defiler is super-overpriced. It's paying for all the goodies you're never gona use up to 100% and av12 ain't great for a 200 pt vehicle even with 4 hp, 5++, daemonic possession and iwnd. I mean look at it's C: D counterpart and cry.

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Defilers aren't durable. They're just not. Best to skip them because of how much they cost.

Twin Forgefiends give you plenty of shots at a very wide range of targets. Can pulp T4 models and can very easily glance things to death, including aircraft. A much better choice. And since you don't have any real ranged anything or anything fast like Spawn, it's the only choice that makes sense.

You disregard the defiler on the grounds that it costs too much, yet just one of your suggested forgefiends is only 20pts cheaper, and you're advocating 2 of them for a pathetic 8 avg hits at s8 ap4 per turn, for almost 2x the price of a defiler.

Sir Arun wrote:
given how your list lacks anti-air, I'd say take 2 hades fiends which will give you 16 S8 shots to play with. That'll bring down anything from the sky even without skyfire.

You're going to get 3 hits if you're lucky, on your average av12 flier you might get a single glance. You certainly wont be bringing it down.

MarsNZ wrote:

SharkoutofWata wrote:
Defilers aren't durable. They're just not. Best to skip them because of how much they cost.

Twin Forgefiends give you plenty of shots at a very wide range of targets. Can pulp T4 models and can very easily glance things to death, including aircraft. A much better choice. And since you don't have any real ranged anything or anything fast like Spawn, it's the only choice that makes sense.

You disregard the defiler on the grounds that it costs too much, yet just one of your suggested forgefiends is only 20pts cheaper, and you're advocating 2 of them for a pathetic 8 avg hits at s8 ap4 per turn, for almost 2x the price of a defiler.

Sir Arun wrote:
given how your list lacks anti-air, I'd say take 2 hades fiends which will give you 16 S8 shots to play with. That'll bring down anything from the sky even without skyfire.

You're going to get 3 hits if you're lucky, on your average av12 flier you might get a single glance. You certainly wont be bringing it down.

So what would you do?

problem with the defiler is it tries to do too many differnt things. it's a artillery platform that tries to be a close combat walker. it's a bit confused a role. I'd like an option to replace that battle canon with some sort of nasty template weapon(maybe the baleflamer?). that way if I decide I wanna kit for close combat, the main gun is a little batter at synergizing with that role

Perhaps the answer is to go unbound. Since when would a zombie type force be bothered about securing objectives anyway? I've thrown some points together, and I can take two lasher maulers, 2 hades forgefiends, 2 oblits and a souk grinder with phlegm and warpsword....

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 some bloke wrote:


most importantly though, they will wreck any monsters they fight. if both get into combat, that's -4 attacks for the monster.

Don't tendrills lower WS?

No, that's scourges. Lash tendrils are specific to Maulerfiends and reduce 2 attacks for any model in base contact with it.

Lasher Tendrils do not reduce bonus attacks a model gains from charging or having 2 close combat weapons, as the rules say lasher tendrils modify the attacks characteristic, not the attacks, and the attacks characteristic is the number printed on the unit's profile.

So yes, they suck.

What about decimator engines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lashers surely affect the total attacks characteristic at that time? The example in the codex is being in Base contact with two maulers drop attacks by 4.... There's not millions out there with more than 4 attacks without bonuses such as charging or 2 ccw's. I think we all know the intent there.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
What about decimator engines?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lashers surely affect the total attacks characteristic at that time? The example in the codex is being in Base contact with two maulers drop attacks by 4.... There's not millions out there with more than 4 attacks without bonuses such as charging or 2 ccw's. I think we all know the intent there.

I agree. It does reduce the number of attacks by 2 for each maulerfiend with the lash. I wonder if 2 mauler fiends would be good at taking out a knight. The only thing the knight can really do is stomp.

The defiler is a 195 point battle cannon that will never die and tears most things apart that try to get close to it...

Part of me doesn't like the idea of a 195 point battle cannon, but it will be firing all turns of the game for the most part. Really hard to judge it. Forgefiend I'm a little more positive I don't like. At only BS3, their 8 shots quickly become 4 hits.

Maulerfiends really seem like the best of the three options you presented to me. Super cheap, fast, reliable anti-tank. Take 2, for sure. For ranged firepower, I really feel Obliterators, Havocs with MoN, and Las-Preds are your best options.

So, does no one have an opinion on decimators? What about the other options open to us in imperial. Armour 13?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So, does no one have an opinion on decimators? What about the other options open to us in imperial. Armour 13?

I have run decimators twice with my chaos daemons. First off, they are WAY too expensive. They have the ability to get up after being taken out of the game, which is nice, but they are really really expensive. Up in the daemon prince territory expensive. I have run mine as all CC and all shooty. Two of the auto cannons was OK, but not worth the cost. The CC was nice, for the one combat I got to. I went with nurgle for IWND both times, but it didn't make a bit of difference when I died to an explodes result.

With Chaos Daemons, Soul grinders still outshine the decimator, simply because of point cost. The decimator has some cool rules, but IIRC it is only S8, which hurts against vehicles and T5 stuff. I feel like point for point, you could get a lot more out of a different unit. I got it to make a daemon engine army, but I am thinking about replacing it with a maulerfiend.

Blight drones are another mechanical awesome from IA series. These dudes took a bit of a hit with 7th though, as Jink now forces snap shots. When it didn't, you had a +3 cover thanks to shrouded, now its a +2, but no blasts.
On the upside:
A flyer with a non ordinance battle cannon and an auto cannon.
Jink for when you want to hover for that objective/linebreaker
Looks cool
Small

On the downside:
BS2
Kind of expensive
fragile
It also has a rule where it always explodes, which now only does something when its in hover mode. In the olden days the explosion was poison.

Khorne bloodslaughterers are in there I think. Quick little dreadnoughts (ok, they are surprisingly big) that have to move towards whatever they can see, but probably can jack them in up CC) I've never seen them run, and I feel like they are not that useful.

If you want to go big, there is the greater brass scorpion, which is REALLY fun to use. I would suggest busting it out ASAP if you have the opportunity. First turn charge thanks to a 30" threat range and more stomps than you can shake a stick at!