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This has happened twice to me and I wanted to know an actual rule for it.

Twice someone assaulted my Orks and because of my daisy chain defense against Flamers (sisters of battle brought about 10 of them) he assaulted me, killed all models within range and then the combat ended because I was not able to get any models in base to base.

My question.

1: In an assault can casualties exceed those who are actually in the close combat? for instance my ork squad had 20 models but only 5 were close enough to do the combat, once they all died did the rest of the attacks go on the squad or were they just lost.

2: at the end of the combat if my squad lost and failed its morale check and runs away can the opposing player catch me on an initiative test and destroy the squad? or because they are to far away and technically not in combat anymore do they just run away?

If I recall correctly, you can only lose models as far as 2" away from those in base contact. The rest of the wounds vanish. So if you had 8 Orks in combat (combat being 2" to the enemy models) and they deal 12 unsaved wounds, you lose 8 orks, the rest vanish. You then pile in 3", since Ork initiative should be lower than your opponent, then all Orks within 2" get to swing.

I believe they can catch you, because the game doesn't check to see if you're still 'in combat' until after the moral check/sweep takes place. If you pass your moral, you do a 3'' pile in. If at that point you are not in combat, you are no longer stuck in. Can be good or bad, depending on whos turn this happens on.

Small Rulebook, Page 52, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties Section - "Note that all models in the target unit may be hit, wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those that are not engaged."

Wounds never "vanish". There are all allocated and resolved until you either run out of wounds or the Unit is completed destroyed. Sorry to say, but if you use a "chain defense", it is very likely that a higher Initiative opponent will wipe out enough models to keep you more than 3" away when your turns rolls around. If that happens, you're out of luck and combat ends with you most likely losing.

I believe what Melelvolence is thinking about is attacking. Only models who are in base to base with an opponent or within 2" of another model who is get to roll To Hit. Anyone too far out is not able to attack that Initiative step.

 Kriswall wrote:
Small Rulebook, Page 52, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties Section - "Note that all models in the target unit may be hit, wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those that are not engaged."

Wounds never "vanish". There are all allocated and resolved until you either run out of wounds or the Unit is completed destroyed. Sorry to say, but if you use a "chain defense", it is very likely that a higher Initiative opponent will wipe out enough models to keep you more than 3" away when your turns rolls around. If that happens, you're out of luck and combat ends with you most likely losing.

I believe what Melelvolence is thinking about is attacking. Only models who are in base to base with an opponent or within 2" of another model who is get to roll To Hit. Anyone too far out is not able to attack that Initiative step.

Ah, very possible I got a few things mixed. I could have sworn that you could only do CC wounds up to a certain distance away, similar to shooting only letting you allocate to what your weapons can reach too. Was an older edition like that? Maybe I'm just on drugs and don't know what I'm talking about.

It very well could be that...there's a gak ton of floating ducks in the room right now...where's my fly swatter...

Ghazkuul wrote:

1: In an assault can casualties exceed those who are actually in the close combat? for instance my ork squad had 20 models but only 5 were close enough to do the combat, once they all died did the rest of the attacks go on the squad or were they just lost.

Yes, as Kriswall wrote:

Small Rulebook, Page 52, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties Section - "Note that all models in the target unit may be hit, wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those that are not engaged."

so the whole unit, no matter how far away it is, can be hit, wounded and removed as a casualty. even if your furthest model is 40 inches away it can still be killed if the attacking unit does enough wounds.

2: at the end of the combat if my squad lost and failed its morale check and runs away can the opposing player catch me on an initiative test and destroy the squad? or because they are to far away and technically not in combat anymore do they just run away?

See sweeping advance in the rule book, this is what happens at the end of a combat when a morale check is failed.

P.S. you do not roll the fall back distance until you check for Sweeping Advance.

Away from my book atm, do we still have the 2nd pile in move if after both sides do the 3 inch pile in?

 Kriswall wrote:
Small Rulebook, Page 52, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties Section - "Note that all models in the target unit may be hit, wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those that are not engaged."

Wounds never "vanish". There are all allocated and resolved until you either run out of wounds or the Unit is completed destroyed. Sorry to say, but if you use a "chain defense", it is very likely that a higher Initiative opponent will wipe out enough models to keep you more than 3" away when your turns rolls around. If that happens, you're out of luck and combat ends with you most likely losing.

I believe what Melelvolence is thinking about is attacking. Only models who are in base to base with an opponent or within 2" of another model who is get to roll To Hit. Anyone too far out is not able to attack that Initiative step.

Yep, everything carries over.

Learned that under unpleasant circumstances: I rolled seven rends. A Carnifex with one wound left died. I now have a gap as wide as a Carnifex's dreadnought base and a large block of my removed terminator based models from a destroyed unit between me and a walking tyrant. A solid five or six inch gap.

Why was this bad? I was playing against some young kid pretty new to the game. So, I rend through all the Hive Tyrant's wounds instantly... And spend five minutes looking through the rule book for a reason it wouldn't carry over the huge gap so as not to be mean to the kid and evaporate his far away warlord as a mere side effect of hitting the Carnifex so hard.

In your case it is two different units.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Away from my book atm, do we still have the 2nd pile in move if after both sides do the 3 inch pile in?

Havent got the book infront of me atm but I am almost certain they changed it in 7th so that all pile-ins were made at the start of combat rather than at initiative step?

sm3g wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Away from my book atm, do we still have the 2nd pile in move if after both sides do the 3 inch pile in?

Havent got the book infront of me atm but I am almost certain they changed it in 7th so that all pile-ins were made at the start of combat rather than at initiative step?

Rather than guessing - I have got the book in front of me:
Models Pile In at the start of their Initiative Step (p48) and also at the end of combat if neither side was wiped out or fled (p53).

changemod wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Small Rulebook, Page 52, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties Section - "Note that all models in the target unit may be hit, wounded and removed as casualties during an Initiative step, including those that are not engaged."

Wounds never "vanish". There are all allocated and resolved until you either run out of wounds or the Unit is completed destroyed. Sorry to say, but if you use a "chain defense", it is very likely that a higher Initiative opponent will wipe out enough models to keep you more than 3" away when your turns rolls around. If that happens, you're out of luck and combat ends with you most likely losing.

I believe what Melelvolence is thinking about is attacking. Only models who are in base to base with an opponent or within 2" of another model who is get to roll To Hit. Anyone too far out is not able to attack that Initiative step.

Yep, everything carries over.

Learned that under unpleasant circumstances: I rolled seven rends. A Carnifex with one wound left died. I now have a gap as wide as a Carnifex's dreadnought base and a large block of my removed terminator based models from a destroyed unit between me and a walking tyrant. A solid five or six inch gap.

Why was this bad? I was playing against some young kid pretty new to the game. So, I rend through all the Hive Tyrant's wounds instantly... And spend five minutes looking through the rule book for a reason it wouldn't carry over the huge gap so as not to be mean to the kid and evaporate his far away warlord as a mere side effect of hitting the Carnifex so hard.

Wounds don't carry over between units in a Multiple Assault, so as soon as the unit you were attacking was wiped out (the Carnifex) all the remaining Wounds are lost. Your unit would have had to split their attacks between the two units to be able to wound both (ie models in base contact with the Carnifex strike the Carnifex, models in base with the Tyrant strike the Tyrant and models in base contact with both the Carnifex and Tyrant can attack either).