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So in preparation for my next 40k army I figured I'd throw up a list, try to avoid buying ineffective units, all that sort of stuff.

Anyways, this will be the first Chaos Marine list I've ever tried to really put together on my own, so expect some issues

HQ
Warpsmith - combi melta, VotLW (125)

Elites
Chaos Terminators - extra terminator, dual LC, LC/combi-melta, CF/combi melta, CF/HF, landraider dedicated transport (410)

Troops
Chaos Space Marines - 5 additional marines, 2 plasmaguns, rhino w. havoc launcher (217)
Chaos Space Marines - 5 additional marines, 2 plasmaguns, rhino w. havoc launcher (217)
Chaos Space Marines - meltagun, rhino w. havoc launcher (132)
Chaos Space Marines - meltagun, rhino w. havoc launcher (132)

Heavy Support
Chaos Vindicator - havoc launcher (132)
Chaos Vindicator - havoc launcher (132)

Total 1497pts

Any thoughts would be appreciated as I don't want to dump money into things I won't need

Nearly all CSM units are ineffective.

Is there any way you can shave points off the csm squads to get a 3rd vindicator?

Why not replace the 2 plasma gun squads with more of the same 5 man 1 melta gun squads?

 Filch wrote:
Nearly all CSM units are ineffective.

Please don't say things like that... just untrue.

I realize the desire to have some sort of death star, but I feel CSM just doesn't deliver with that sort of thing. Chaos terminators certainly have their uses, but death stars is not one of them. The closest we can get to SS/TH Termies is by taking the MoT and the 7 point Power Fist upgrade, for a 43 point model.

Havoc launchers are good, but require your tank to stand still to fire both cannons.
On your vindicators, read this as well: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607867.page

I recommend limiting your Troops.

Very few armies are rewarded for taking extra basic troops.

So cut troops and take what to replace them? I can understand the lack of deathstar though. Ideally I'd like to keep gribbly things to a limit as I've always seen the Iron Warriors as more of a 'mechanical replacement' type of group as opposed to an army like nurgle which I picture as loaded with demons and what not

 changerofways wrote:

 Filch wrote:
Nearly all CSM units are ineffective.

Please don't say things like that... just untrue.

I realize the desire to have some sort of death star, but I feel CSM just doesn't deliver with that sort of thing. Chaos terminators certainly have their uses, but death stars is not one of them. The closest we can get to SS/TH Termies is by taking the MoT and the 7 point Power Fist upgrade, for a 43 point model.

Havoc launchers are good, but require your tank to stand still to fire both cannons.
On your vindicators, read this as well: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/607867.page

Please tell him which CSM units are worth their points. This will help him decide when he buys CSM and make a better list.

I predict triple drakes. I really hate those units and the people who say they are grossly overpowered. Oh but it kills my marines...Welcome to the club! so many things kill marines! Oh and if you use anything from IA13 you are cheating, because I read most of it and it has some over powered stuff and the statement I made was directed towards the main CSM codex specifically.

To make an effective iron warriors list is difficult. I'm trying it myself, but finding I'm having to fuse it with nurgle to make them even remotely playable. Even then I'm not sure.

So, units that I think are effective in the codex....

Plague marines. More expensive than regular marines, but don't require 10 for two specials. Also gain fearless, T5 and feel no pain. The only downside is they drop an initiative... But if you're shooting with them then who cares? Why regular CSM aren't fearless I don't know. But that's another topic.

Nurgle bikers. Exceptionally good being T6. I like them with melta guns and a Lord with a fist.

An Axe of Blind Fury Juggerlord is a very good unit.

I'm a big fan of maulerfiends. Mine always perform well. Very survivable and very quick. Fit the theme of Iron warriors too.

I can't seem to make forgefiends work for their price, but I've heard good things about double hades fiends...

A helldrake is always good. I think three is stupid personally.

MoN oblits are OK too.... They struggle without an invulnerable though so you have to play them carefully.

Look at the helbrute formations. The mayhem pack can fit this list. IWND on all three and the ability to deep strike them.

Lastly....and I say this with fear that filch will call me a cheat.... I'm a big fan of the chaos decimator engine. They are very expensive pointwise. Arguably not worth it. But in 7th they are significantly more survivable. And fit an iron warriors theme. Especially when dedicated to nurgle.

Don't forget, just because you take MoN, or any other mark doesn't need to be painted or modelled that way. They can still be painted iron warriors. You're just making use of the rules available to you to make them more playable.

Could always just go for a heavily cybernetic to explain the increased toughness. I mean, I don't know about your average marine, chaos or otherwise, but I'd prefer having my innards on the inside.

I'll remake the list as soon as I get home tonight. Going to wind up going with 4 5 man nurgle marine units in rhino's, the warpsmith, and the vindicators. I'll look into a maulerfiend as well. Bikes will also be a consideration. As far as why a besieging army would have bikes is a whole other question but I can always figure that out later.

Honestly you really need to read Imperial Armor 13 to make a great Iron Warrior list. The Renegades and Heretics army has access to all the great long range weaponry that CSM doesn't have.

CSM is just overpriced and not that powerful.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:


MoN oblits are OK too.... They struggle without an invulnerable though so you have to play them carefully.

Oblits have the Daemon rule giving them a 5++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I recomend using black legion. You are able to take choosen as troop chioces now without having to take Abbadon. This is a much better Iron Warrior troop choice as you can pick up 4 weapons in a 5 man squad. You can also take bringer of despair Termies making them WS 5 BS 5 for 6 points.

I like the duel forgefiend but they work with my army, and they have failed me before. Bikes work great with MoN and are very effective with MoS as well expecially vs other space marines who also carry the standard I4.

i do have to agree with filch on this IA:13 is amazing not to run a renegade army just to run alongside yours, black legion is very pointy as any unit that can take VOTLW has to take it. the best troop choice for chaos is plague marines in rhinos as you have access to 2 special weapons in one squad with a 3+/5+

lose the havoc launchers on everything. you won't be able to fire them on the vindicators because of the ordinance rule and you want to keep the rhinos mobile and you can't really do that if you are stuck only moving 6" per turn to make sure you can still fire the havoc launchers on them. i think the only place where a havoc launcher works is strapped to a predator.

deano134679 wrote:
i do have to agree with filch on this IA:13 is amazing not to run a renegade army just to run alongside yours, black legion is very pointy as any unit that can take VOTLW has to take it. the best troop choice for chaos is plague marines in rhinos as you have access to 2 special weapons in one squad with a 3+/5+

That is a very good point, but if you are playing SM which is 40% of tournaments it is worth it.

I'm assuming these are all supplements to the main book. I've just started getting back into everything since the middle of 6th edition so I'm still a little lost

I love how people will still cry cheese over the Heldrake when they spam grav weapons, TH/SS terminators, Landraiders, Wyverns, Guard Blobs and AV14 Tanks, broken Psychic powers, and twin linked Flying Monstrous Creatures.

The Heldrake is a necessary evil to balance the gakky fire output available to us. Every army has a reliable way to poof a unit. I feel no pity when I scorch a unit off the board. Just bolters, or obliterators, or a Forgefiend certainly cant.

Alright. Attempt number 2.

HQ
Chaos Lord - MoN, Sigil of Corruption, Bike, Power Fist, VotLW (155)

Troops
Plague Marines - 2xmeltaguns, rhino (175)
Plague Marines - 2xmeltaguns, rhino (175)
Plague Marines - 2xplasmaguns, rhino (185)
Plague Marines - 1xplasmagun, rhino (170)

Fast Attack
Chaos Bikers - 2 additional bikers, MoN, VotLW, 2xmeltaguns, Champion w. powerfist (190)
Heldrake (170)

Heavy Support
Chaos Vindicator - Daemonic Possesion, combi bolter (140)
Chaos Vindicator - Daemonic Possesion, combi bolter (140)

Total 1500pts

Any better than the first list?

That is a substantial improvement.

I like it a lot.

Personally I would try and get a lightning claw on the lord, for the extra attack.
I also rate the daemonheart and slaughterers horns from the crimson slaughter supplliment.

6 str 9 attacks on the charge should give most opponents cause for concern.

But would not drop a unit to get that but there are some unnecessary upgrades dotted around.

Great second iteration of your list... but for sure try and squeeze the lightning claw and Crimson Slaughter goodies Bob mentioned in.

the only maine army ive played at at a tournament was an iron hands atm all im playing is necrons tau and eldar

I love IW and I've faced some very effective csm lists built as iron warriors. The second list is much better btw. That said I do have some suggestions:

You don't need a bunch of plague marines to represent, I'd say 2 would suffice. What I would suggest is multiple single oblits MoN. These are pretty much the essence of IW and very good as pseudo lone wolves.

Consider typhus for your hq. He's pretty underrated as a CM equivalent with a ID and ap2 daemon weapon. But best of all he brings zombie hordes which are totally in theme as fodder troops thi advance in front of your warriors or bubble wrap your big guns and artillary.

Speaking of which I highly, highly recommend ia13. Here is where your army will truly draw it's identity from, and you can access an even better zombies unit with fnp 4+ at 3 pts a model as a compulsory troops selection.
Then the meat and gravy.. Rapiers, relic sicarans, chaos fellblade, renegade wyverns, renegade baneblade, earthshakers and more. Awesome book and not broken but damn close to a home run by FW.

Anyway just some friendly ideas.

IA13 would be awesome. I just have no money for it at present. As it sits I'll probably stick with the list as is to try it out, mostly because I'm not a fan of finecast anything and want to avoid it, and I'm not paying the GW price for them. I will pick up IA13 when I get some free cash though