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Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
pismakron wrote:
What is our best tool for Turn 1 charges? Trukkboyz have amazing threatrange, but they are a bit on the expensive side. Do we have other options with a decent threatrange?


In my opinion, T1 charges are nothing you should including in your primary game plan. Orks aren't drukhari and many things we could potential charge in turn 1 match or outmatch us in melee, and you opponent has a great amount of control over what you can charge, how many units you can get in engagement range, etc. Worst case, they are protected by fight last abilities. And even if you take a chunk out of your opponent with an insane bonebreaka, kill rig, buggy, piston dread, beastboss or warboss charge, you have tossed that tool away for the rest of the game.

What you should be looking for is counter-charges.


I mostly agree, but I also feels that it sometimes comes down to the same thing. If I have units with a long threat-range, then I can deploy them back for the counter-charge, or forwards if my opponent deploys very aggressively.It just gives flexibility.

For example, in my last game my opponent had deployd a plagueburst crawler unusually forward, and I realised later that I could have advanced, shot (partially) and charged with my shokkjump dragsta out of my own deployment zone. And I should have. And while charging with the dragsta would never be my primary gameplan, to have that option, and to know the ranges (ungefæhr) involved, I think can really help. Regards


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:

This is where Jidmah and I disagree, I think Alpha strike is how orkz should be built. I listed in another page my competitive 40k list. But the main point is that its an alpha strike army filled with Turn 1 Threat options.

Its 3 Patrol Detachments with a warboss equipped how you like (Infantry only though)
3x10 Trukk Boyz
3x10 Kommandos
3x10 Stormboyz
2x3 DeffKoptas.


So, you deploy the Stormboyz normally,and advance them up the board? Dont you get shot up to the extreme, when you lose first turn? Have you tried adding some of your many warbikes to the mix?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/16 11:26:48


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

pismakron wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
Surely you'd want snakes over goffs for the cav?


1) A popular thing is Evil sunz for a squigboss with rezmekkas redder paint. If you are going to run a squig list, you really want 3 detachments to max out on squig bosses, so you can mix and match kulturs. But the rezmekka relic is definitely good enough that Evil Sunz is taken for that alone.
.

Regards


This is one I am looking at closely, the squig riders are little bit slower than bikers and this makes them a little vulnerable to a charge. Having the movement buff helps a little but the relic on a character (smasha squig) ready to heroically intervene and make the enemy unit fight last is sweeet sweeet music lol

The fact that they can also advance and shoot without penalty with the stikka weapon also tipped me to evil sons

I found that offensive buffs from goffs and snakebites were a bit redundant, they slaughtered everything in my game I played.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 11:57:10


 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Killrigs with Waaagh can alphastrike too. And it could be very intense.

However, I don' t see the point in T1 charging the Kommandos.

You deploy them 9” in front of enemy deploy to block enemy movement and telyports etc to get wide board control.

If you go second, they die but opponent is no more than 9+3” from its deploy.

If go first, you either hold the objectives = win for you.

Or charge, die in CC and clear opponents the way. The best that can happen is, you not die and opponents shoot you down next turn. This could in some cases cause a terrible trafic jam in opponents deploy, but in my eyes, such result is an evidence of opponents stupid list or gameplan.

Or do I miss something?


Goonhammer “Kannonwagon for Kommandos” is pure goonhammer nonsence. KW is great for sitting in the back, screenning your deploy and zooming 12” side to side to see anywhere. That is their great adventage againts Mek Guns. 60” range and 12” move = nowhere to hide. And 3 big shootas to bully small infantry in your half of the table.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/16 13:16:34


9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

About buggies spam, it's a bit sad. There are quite a lot of good units in the codex and I hope we can see more variety in competition list
Pretty sure we can already get a competitive list with dread mob, with a careful list building and strategy.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






XC18 wrote:
About buggies spam, it's a bit sad. There are quite a lot of good units in the codex and I hope we can see more variety in competition list
Pretty sure we can already get a competitive list with dread mob, with a careful list building and strategy.


Unfortunately, I can't see how Dread Mob can compete with Buggies atm. Unless we get something that really boosts them in the next Charadon book, they're simply both outgunned and outpaced by Buggies, not to mention the general lack of synergy from any strats barring the KFF exploding one. At least buggies can get the -1 to hit strat for being speed freeks. We also have a lot less for choice. We're more or less relegated to just the Mega Dread, the Deff Dread, Killa Kanz and maybe a Gorka/Morkanaut. If Killa Kanz were 40 points base, including the rokkit launcha, then I'd say there would be more of a case to make for them, but as it is, they don't have the firepower, efficiency, or speed to do much even if we spam them.
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot




XC18 wrote:
About buggies spam, it's a bit sad. There are quite a lot of good units in the codex and I hope we can see more variety in competition list
Pretty sure we can already get a competitive list with dread mob, with a careful list building and strategy.


There was some discussion a while back about this. I think the current format for dreads is either skorcha, full claw or mega canon. But each come with their disadvantages. I think the best one is skorcha one in evil sunz. since you gain a huge movement increase and you don't care about WS. But others prefer canon with freebootez for +1 or Goff full claw. up to you. their not bad.. we just have better options.

Kans are still a bit overpriced, and morka/gorkanaught going to lords of war also put a nail on that coffin

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 13:51:31


 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

I guess I have to test a list and come back to you about it
Honestly I:m thinking of a combination of tellyported Dreads (Big Krumpaz?) / dread with orkmatic piston / mega dread with shokka hill, Morkanaut (with buzzgob for +1 to hit?), big krumpaz tellyport Gork, some Deffkoptas, some kommandos for distraction, etc...
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






XC18 wrote:
I guess I have to test a list and come back to you about it
Honestly I:m thinking of a combination of tellyported Dreads (Big Krumpaz?) / dread with orkmatic piston / mega dread with shokka hill, Morkanaut (with buzzgob for +1 to hit?), big krumpaz tellyport Gork, some Deffkoptas, some kommandos for distraction, etc...


Hey, who knows, I'd be more than happy to find out that Dread Mob works out in some way. Let me know how your results work out!
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






pismakron wrote:
What is our best tool for Turn 1 charges? Trukkboyz have amazing threatrange, but they are a bit on the expensive side. Do we have other options with a decent threatrange?


For starters, it should probably not be your only battle plan but it's good to have this option. There are a number of situations when you do want t1 charges - either to lock the enemy in deployment t1 for better scoring, performing secondaries, preventing the enemy from shooting for a turn, exploiting positioning - especially when you can hide behind blos somewhere on a flank near the opponent's objective markers, etc.
Personally, I often utilise t1 charges - especially in smaller games.

If you're starting with 18" Deployment - most things will be able to perform t1 charges in case you take regular waagh for advance + charge or pack speedy units. And regular waagh is in many situations better than shooty waagh even for buggy lists (that are supposed to be shooty) in small games. Or you could be running ghaz.

When you start with 24" Deployment, your options are more limited but are still pretty vast:
Trukk boyz, All speedy characters in case of regular waagh or fast-ish vehicles with ramming speed: Trike, 14" Move buggies, koptas, etc. Kommandoes and dajumoing units are also an option but they're even more risky.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




pismakron wrote:


So, you deploy the Stormboyz normally,and advance them up the board? Dont you get shot up to the extreme, when you lose first turn? Have you tried adding some of your many warbikes to the mix?


And that is the beauty of the unit itself, it deploys INSIDE your deployment zone, preferably on the line. While they are a juicy target if you lose 1st turn thanks to 6+ armor, you can easily deploy them on a piece of terrain to make them a bit more durable, but more importantly, if you do go second your opponent will be forced to focus fire down the Kommandos who are 9' from his deployment line. And 10 models with T5 and a 3+ armor save aren't easy to just delete, not to mention that at 10ppm they aren't exactly appealing to the enemy to direct heavy weapons at. A Melta Gun for instance only has a 44% chance to kill 1 Kommando, Even less if the terrain feature they are in also gives -1 to hit. A Heavy bolter on average kills 0.5 Kommandos a turn if they are in cover, translates to it taking 20 Heavy bolters to kill 1 10 man unit of Kommandos in cover.

But, if you are really hesitant you can always hide them in obscuring terrain and just try for an opponent to advance towards you in hopes you can get a strong assault against their forward units.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Just had a thought, a beast boss with super cybork and half chewed feels like a fairly good tank. Get them in range of any beatstick and you get a 4++, half damage then a 4+++ against anything that does get through. Feels like it'd be useful for simply outlasting the enemy as you chip away at them.
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





But do you really want to use one HQ slot of your 2-3 warbosses you gonna take for the Beast Boss on foot if he is competing with the Trike, Warboss on Bike and Squigbosses?
A Squigboss with 'Ard as nails & Beasthide mantle gives you similar defensive capabilities against characters (have not fully done the math, but against most stuff the squigboss with 3+ wounds, +1 toughness and -1 Dmg should at least be on par, if not even better) and will be better against anything not a character / monster for sure.

Personally I'd rather take Cybork Body on the MA Big Mek if you don't want da ded shiny shoota or on another secondary character if you have free relics left for some reason and want to make your characters tanky.
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




And 10 models with T5 and a 3+ armor save aren't easy to just delete, not to mention that at 10ppm they aren't exactly appealing to the enemy to direct heavy weapons at.


A single compet. Edge/ triptych whip succubus will slay 6-7, in combination with moral, you will lose 7-9 Models... This stratagey seems only viable if the enemy does not have good CC, else you are losing 100+ points to a single character that usually can be screened sufficiently thanks to the agressive deployment the kommandos need if they are set up for a T1 charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 09:08:32


 
   
Made in us
Grovelin' Grot




Bossdoc wrote:
And 10 models with T5 and a 3+ armor save aren't easy to just delete, not to mention that at 10ppm they aren't exactly appealing to the enemy to direct heavy weapons at.


A single compet. Edge/ triptych whip succubus will slay 6-7, in combination with moral, you will lose 7-9 Models... This stratagey seems only viable if the enemy does not have good CC, else you are loosing 100+ points to a single character that usually can be screened sufficiently thanks to the agressive deployment the kommandos need if they are set up for a T1 charge.


I would use MSU of 5 kommandos with snakebites kulture to screen, sure the succubus will wipe them, likely, but that's a tied up unit cleaning 55cp only and setting itself for a bullet salvo next turn. But that's how I use mine and if they ignore the kommandos I put them on VP so they get to score.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






cody.d. wrote:
Just had a thought, a beast boss with super cybork and half chewed feels like a fairly good tank. Get them in range of any beatstick and you get a 4++, half damage then a 4+++ against anything that does get through. Feels like it'd be useful for simply outlasting the enemy as you chip away at them.


I'm pretty sure the super cybork body is infantry only, so you can't take it on a beastboss sadly. You're better off just taking the beasthide mantle and ard as nails if you want a tanky beastboss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 17:22:50


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think he’s talking about the beastboss on foot that no one uses not the beast boss on squig.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Philadelphia

I know people think the Stompa sucks, but what about throwing Da Badskull Banna on it, tossing it into the middle, using its shooting/combat to kick off the Freebootaz buff for other units? I know it can’t benefit from the buff but it’s a giant model for the banna and should be able to pick up chaff for the shooting buff, absolutely deletes things in combat.

Rule #1 is Look Cool.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 The Shrike wrote:
I know people think the Stompa sucks, but what about throwing Da Badskull Banna on it, tossing it into the middle, using its shooting/combat to kick off the Freebootaz buff for other units? I know it can’t benefit from the buff but it’s a giant model for the banna and should be able to pick up chaff for the shooting buff, absolutely deletes things in combat.


Compare its durability and dmg output to Knights. If its less than those but costs more than there is your answer. The biggest issue with a large model like that is that its a bullet sponge. So it either has to have a lot of durability or it dies without doing any dmg to your opponent. And something to keep in mind, they actually reduced its dmg output recently. Yes they dropped its price significantly, but they also took away the Psycho Dakka rule so its main gun shoots about 1/2 as much.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in nl
Grovelin' Grot




Not aware of how you can give kultures to the stompa so maybe I missing something.. so if you can't give culture it can't take neither the bandana or give or receive the freebooterz buff.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Philadelphia

Forceride wrote:
Not aware of how you can give kultures to the stompa so maybe I missing something.. so if you can't give culture it can't take neither the bandana or give or receive the freebooterz buff.


This is a common misconception, not helped by Battlescribe being currently incorrect. You can give a Stompa in an auxiliary detachment a culture, it simply can’t use the detachment benefits. But it is of that culture and thus can kick off the Freebootaz buff and take relics like the banna.

Rule #1 is Look Cool.  
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

There is a difference between being a particular clan and not benefitting from it.
Superheavy Aux doesnt benefit from it, but it does not lose the tags.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






In any case, the stompa is not a character and therefore cannot have relics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes they dropped its price significantly, but they also took away the Psycho Dakka rule so its main gun shoots about 1/2 as much.


I'm super curious what narrative you will spin this time to explain how going from 3d6 + (3d6 * 0.8444) with a 16.66% chance of breaking the gun to dakka 24/16 is shooting 50% less.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/18 20:01:37


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in nl
Grovelin' Grot




 The Shrike wrote:
Forceride wrote:
Not aware of how you can give kultures to the stompa so maybe I missing something.. so if you can't give culture it can't take neither the bandana or give or receive the freebooterz buff.


This is a common misconception, not helped by Battlescribe being currently incorrect. You can give a Stompa in an auxiliary detachment a culture, it simply can’t use the detachment benefits. But it is of that culture and thus can kick off the Freebootaz buff and take relics like the banna.


Ah thx for correcting me, that is very good to know, and values a bit more a few models.
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




take relics like the banna


A stompa is no character, thus no relics....
   
Made in gb
Audacious Atalan Jackal



UK

At least! Tomorrow afternoon will be my first time since over 20 years of dust Ork!

Spoiler:

Goff
Orks - Combat Patrol - Eternal War ( 3CP - 485PT - 15PT )

Orks Patrol Detachment ( 2CP - 485PT )
HQ
WARLORD: Big Mek in Mega Armour (90) Grot Oiler
SPECIALIST MOBS UPGRADE: Big Krumpaz
TRAITS: 'Ard As Nails
RELICS: Supa-Cybork Body

TROOPS
Boyz (100)
1x Boss Nob 1x Kombi-skorcha
9x Ork Boy
SPECIALIST MOBS UPGRADE: Sneaky Gitz

ELITES
Burna Boyz (55)
5x Burna Boy
Burna Boyz (55)
5x Burna Boy

FAST ATTACK
Deffkoptas (200)
4x Deffkopta
SPECIALIST MOBS UPGRADE: Boom Boyz



Total Command Points: 2/5
Reinforcement Points: 0
Total Points: 500/500



I hope this list will be good against Tyranids. Yeah it’s small size (combat patrol size )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/19 16:44:55




 
   
Made in cy
Tunneling Trygon






Forceride wrote:
 The Shrike wrote:


This is a common misconception, not helped by Battlescribe being currently incorrect. You can give a Stompa in an auxiliary detachment a culture, it simply can’t use the detachment benefits. But it is of that culture and thus can kick off the Freebootaz buff and take relics like the banna.


Ah thx for correcting me, that is very good to know, and values a bit more a few models.

To expand on this, you can have Stompas benefit fully from clan cultures, but it means taking a super heavy detachment with two other LOWs for 1200pts+ and 6CP. That's a lot of investment for three models that don't fare great in the current meta.

 The Shrike wrote:
I know people think the Stompa sucks, but what about throwing Da Badskull Banna on it, tossing it into the middle, using its shooting/combat to kick off the Freebootaz buff for other units? I know it can’t benefit from the buff but it’s a giant model for the banna and should be able to pick up chaff for the shooting buff, absolutely deletes things in combat.


See I don't think that the Stompa is a bad unit anymore when you look at the points / datasheet alone. In fact it looks fairly decent on paper. However the wider 9E game does stack the deck against large LOW units in several ways to the point where even a 'decent' unit will struggle to benefit you in any competitive setting:

  • As said above, it's a real big target that's easy to draw LOS to from pretty much anything else on the board.
  • There's an up-front CP penalty for most LOW units, and recent codexes have put in restrictions to stop Titanic units benefitting from many special rules just like clan cultures
  • In an edition where objectives and actions win games, having many cheap and/or mobile units will always have an advantage over one large unit

  • GW have already walked back on the CP cost a little in the last GT pack, so I'm hoping that trend continues and we can see iconic units like the Stompa on tables more often

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/18 21:14:30


     
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




     Jidmah wrote:
    In any case, the stompa is not a character and therefore cannot have relics.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    SemperMortis wrote:
    Yes they dropped its price significantly, but they also took away the Psycho Dakka rule so its main gun shoots about 1/2 as much.


    I'm super curious what narrative you will spin this time to explain how going from 3d6 + (3d6 * 0.8444) with a 16.66% chance of breaking the gun to dakka 24/16 is shooting 50% less.


    I was just pointing out that they took away the Psycho Dakka rule, the 50% was misleading, so my mistake I was just pointing out that it doesn't shoot 2 or 3 times anymore.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    On a fun note, got 3 games in this weekend at a local tournament and went 3 and 0. Played against Thousand sons, a Speed Freakz ork list and an Imperial Guard list. Was a bit of a weird setup, At the end of the game against the Ork player, I only had 2 units and 4 total models left. But the closest game was against the Thousand sons player. Turn 1 my alpha strike destroyed 2/3rds of his army with relative ease. On his turn his remaining squads were able to fully gut 1/3rd of my army. Honestly, had I not gone first...he would have won with ease. The sheer amount of Mortal wounds they can push out in the Psychic phase is disturbing to say the least. The IG player got steam rolled, he couldn't even use his vehicles the entire game because I had them all locked in CC the whole game. Absolute funniest moment, I was able to Kamikazi a wounded Trukk into the IG players Tank Commander/Warlord and in doing so inflicted 3 mortal wounds which brought it down to 2 wounds remaining, in CC the Trukk somehow plinked a wound off and on my opponents turn he killed it with his sponson weapons...where it promptly exploded....killing his Warlord

    So far my Goff Alpha Strike list is currently sitting at 8 and 0

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/18 22:19:35


     Xenomancers wrote:
    It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

    Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
     
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    SemperMortis wrote:
    So far my Goff Alpha Strike list is currently sitting at 8 and 0


    Very impressive, seeing it I was thinking it would suffer heavily if it didn't get the first turn. How do you manage it in case you go second?
       
    Made in us
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Maybe strange to ask here but it I am asking for tactics involving orks so...
    Doing a 2v2 tournament (1k each) and bringing speed freeks. wartrike, 2 scraps, squig buggie, dakkajet, wazboom and 6 warbikes. Whos a good partner for that? Custodes, sisters, marines, nids?

    I didn't realize how different ork styles are from other armies until we tried out a game with custodes and one army ran in while one chilled in the back lol
       
    Made in us
    Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





    Philadelphia

    Bossdoc wrote:
    take relics like the banna


    A stompa is no character, thus no relics....


    This specific relic states it can be taken on vehicles. You could take it on a Trukk if you wanted to.

    Rule #1 is Look Cool.  
       
     
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