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So my best friend is driving to visit me in two weeks, and he plays tyranids. He talks so much stuff all the time about how I can't beat him (to date, with three different armies, I haven't been able to). We always agree before the game begins to disregard all missions and all turn counts past two. The game ends when someone has been tabled. So far, every game i've played against him with orks has been a massacre. I haven't even gotten close to winning. I've tried a battlewagon list and a kan wall list. Looking back at them, I can see how those were both fairly poor options to fight him with.


his army typically consists of 5 flying creatures (two flyrants, and three of the new ones. Harpies, i think they're called.) a unit or two of three carnifexes, a few other monstrous creatures (at least one tervigon) and two nice sized squads of gaunts. I've had trouble dealing with their t6 mostly. I know he also recently bought several of the 'nid drop pods, and those are a PAIN.


My thought for my next match is foot sloggas. a warboss with 'eadwoppas killchoppa seems right at home. I had that guy insta kill a tervigon in the last game. The green tide seems like a great formation for this as well. Basically, i need bodies to soak up those high strength hits, and be able to take a few blasts from psychic shooting as well. In addition to either the green tide or several large 30 boy sized squads, i could use some hard/ fast mobile shooting like small tank busta squads in trukks or larger squads in battle wagons. I'm personally more fond of the smaller groupings, as my battle wagons tended to get blown up super easily due to all the warp lances and high strength attacks. Why pay a premium for protection that doesn't matter? in addition, I think flash gits are also not a bad idea. The kaptain badrukks flash gits formation gives master crafted, and you can sit those squads in two battlewagons 24" away from his creatures. 30 shots per battle wagon hitting on 4's with a reroll for every three shots AND one of them has a guy shooting a three shot plasma rifle? Even if they are wounding on 5's with random AP, I feel like these would be solid units in this case (if you're already full up on tank bustas). Obviously, mek guns (and in particular traktor kannons) would be a good fit, but I haven't built any models as of yet. They won't be done in time for me to use against him, so herp derp, there.


I'm all about the shoota upgrade on the boys. For only one more point, i get double the shots with 6" more range? Even if they only get to shoot then get charged, they're going to do a ton more than sluggas. an extra ranged shot seems much more better than an extra close combat attack. 'eavy armor is out the window IMO. At least in this case, i don't see it as being worth it.
basically, i'm looking for other thoughts, what do you boyz think?

Play to the mission and follow the "Playing a game" rules.
Drink opponent's tears.

could take a stompa.

Take an Aegis with Quad Gun. Take shoota boyz and rolls for objectives, camp shoota boyz on skyfire nexus


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or a Firestorm Redoubt, or a Fortress of Redemption.

You need some high strength skyfire. Your buddy is obviously TFG. Nail him to the wall with some hard counters.

It sounds like he's egging you into playing his strengths. Play a mission without objectives? What is this business? I agree with first reply.

Play a mission with A SOLID TAC CAD LIST attached to a "green tide" detachment, kill his troops, then stare into his eyes to see when he realizes he's powerless to win.

Proceed to enjoy "anotha foine day for da orkz!".










But yeah, some hard-hitting skyfire is cool too. I don't know enough about orks... dakkajets?

Take the table and flip it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
im actually having a similar issue with my dark eldar, Venomthropes giving everything shrouded and humping cover like a mad man, while all his FMC's wreck my boats ...

If he's insisting on stupid missions (I play 5 Tyranid FMCs, that plays ridiculously well to our strengths), the tailor him hard. How? Trackta cannons or whatever they are. The big guns that make grounding checks at -3. Run a ton of boyz on the ground, making sure he can never put his Flyers close to the guns, and shoot him til he drops, then assault and kill. Tons of Lootas would help too, not sure if those are the same slot s Big Gunz

 BladeTX wrote:
It sounds like he's egging you into playing his strengths. Play a mission without objectives? What is this business? I agree with first reply.

Play a mission with A SOLID TAC CAD LIST attached to a "green tide" detachment, kill his troops, then stare into his eyes to see when he realizes he's powerless to win.

Proceed to enjoy "anotha foine day for da orkz!".










But yeah, some hard-hitting skyfire is cool too. I don't know enough about orks... dakkajets?

except he can score without troops remember?

Not if the OP keeps a Battle Forged army, he will take precedence is he keeps troops on the objectives. And for Flyers to count as scoring they need to hover, and I doubt his FMC will be doing that anywhere near hordes.

So. To have clear terms. These are the rules you're required to follow? :
1. No Rulebook Missions (And by extension, no worrying about objectives)
2. No turn counts after the first reserve roll.
3. The Mission is Table Your Opponent to infinite turns

If I've got that right, maybe we can quit talking about scoring points with objectives. You need Skyfire. Invest in whatever fortifications you fancy that can give you this. I listed 3 above.

Also, in your opening statement, you implied 3 armies. You have 3? or does he. If you, what are the other 2. If him, focus on skyfire and shoota boyz. Trakta Kannons, and High str things with boyz as shields. Get a Big Mek and Kustom Force Field your heavy guns.

I second the stompa, its 13/13/12 so if its got its back to the board then his flyrants cant damage it and it can be stuffed full of repair meks. All you need to worry about is packing some skyfire AV 14/13 fortifications and you have an army that cannot be tabled by the majority of his force.

Focus on taking out the stuff that can damage you then laugh for the next 20 turns it takes to gradually shoot down the flyrants.

Okay..this is what you do...

HQ - mega armor warboss with thinking kap
HQ - mega armor warboss with lucky stik
HQ- mek with kill saw + rokkit
HQ- mek with kill saw + rokkit

TROOPS - 18 ork boyz, nob, power claw
TROOPS - 18 ork boyz, nob, powerclaw

HEAVY SUPPORT - 5 mek gunz (3 kannon + 2 traktor cannon) + 10 grots.
HEAVY SUPPORT - Battle wagon, 4 rokkits, ram
HEAVY SUPPORT - Battle wagon, 4 rokkits, ram

allied detachment Ghazkull thraka (codex supplement)

HQ - biker warboss, power claw, big/mega bosspole (fearless)
TROOPS - 10 grots
FAST ATTACK - 5 deathkopta's with rokkits
HEAVY SUPPORT - 15 loota's

1: roll 2x warlord trait on strategic with your thinking kapp warboss.
2: lucky stikk warboss goes with the loota's and keep the warboss to the front (2+ reroll save).
3: warlord warboss goes with the mek gunz and keep to the front (Toughness 7 majority and a 2+ save with 'look out sire' towards 3point grots).
4: bikerboss goes with the deffkopta's (4+ jinx and fearless). Great anti-assault unit!
5: mek's with killsaw can be added to any (infantry) unit you want!
6: Boyz go in the Battle wagons and just shoot. First move forward and shoot and if the tyranid flyers get to close you just move them backwards. protect the battle wagon's butt!

The whole idea is: be tough and start shooting. If the get to close? You got sum great anti-assault units.

If you got sum points left I would field 10 rokkit boyz in one of the battle wagons. Great shooting and assault (melta bombs) unit against tyranids.

shogun wrote:
Okay..this is what you do...
....

That might be nice advice for a normal game but OP is facing 5 Flyrants and has for some bizzare reason agreed to play 100 turn games where it only ends once one player is tabled (Read the OP).

Skyfire, Skyfire, Skyfire.

Traktor Kannons (you can get loads for feth all points)

Throw in a Fortification with AA, maybe an Aegis Line or a Bastion and add an extra gun emplacement (you can with stronghold assault book). SO maybe an Aegis Defence Line with 2 Quad guns (that'll start putting the hurt on him).

In your fast attack, throw in flyers of your own to duel in the skies? (If you have any).

Use Shoota Boys as troops just so they can add their firepower into the skies (probably won't do much, but every little helps).

If you're able to comply with most if not all of these suggestions, you should be able to wipe the sky with him

Have a fast, powerful combat unit or two clear any ground synapse. Sure, he'll position his flyrants to recover anything that breaks, but having any weak areas on his line where you don't have to worry about Fearless will lighten the pressure whilst letting you pressure him harder.

The other role is of course charging grounded flyers before they can get back up.

shogun wrote:
Okay..this is what you do...

1: roll 2x warlord trait on strategic with your thinking kapp warboss.
2: lucky stikk warboss goes with the loota's and keep the warboss to the front (2+ reroll save).
3: warlord warboss goes with the mek gunz and keep to the front (Toughness 7 majority and a 2+ save with 'look out sire' towards 3point grots).
4: bikerboss goes with the deffkopta's (4+ jinx and fearless). Great anti-assault unit!
5: mek's with killsaw can be added to any (infantry) unit you want!
6: Boyz go in the Battle wagons and just shoot. First move forward and shoot and if the tyranid flyers get to close you just move them backwards. protect the battle wagon's butt!

My mind is blown. A buddy of mine plays Black Templars and uses (dont know what it is called) the artillery piece that can fire lots of small blast ignores cover rounds manned by a tech priest. Pretty much wipes any loota squad ive fielded against him on turn 1. Definitely trying the mega armour boss tactic next time

wtnind wrote:

shogun wrote:
Okay..this is what you do...
....

That might be nice advice for a normal game but OP is facing 5 Flyrants and has for some bizzare reason agreed to play 100 turn games where it only ends once one player is tabled (Read the OP).

Re-read the OP. 2 Flyrants and 3 Harpies.

Lootas destroy Harpies - T5 with a 4+ save. Who cares that you have to snap shoot to hit them?

Trillebaard wrote:

shogun wrote:
Okay..this is what you do...

1: roll 2x warlord trait on strategic with your thinking kapp warboss.
2: lucky stikk warboss goes with the loota's and keep the warboss to the front (2+ reroll save).
3: warlord warboss goes with the mek gunz and keep to the front (Toughness 7 majority and a 2+ save with 'look out sire' towards 3point grots).
4: bikerboss goes with the deffkopta's (4+ jinx and fearless). Great anti-assault unit!
5: mek's with killsaw can be added to any (infantry) unit you want!
6: Boyz go in the Battle wagons and just shoot. First move forward and shoot and if the tyranid flyers get to close you just move them backwards. protect the battle wagon's butt!

My mind is blown. A buddy of mine plays Black Templars and uses (dont know what it is called) the artillery piece that can fire lots of small blast ignores cover rounds manned by a tech priest. Pretty much wipes any loota squad ive fielded against him on turn 1. Definitely trying the mega armour boss tactic next time

That's not gonna work against a barrage weapon like a Thunderfire Cannon as wounds are allocated from the centre of the first blast.

dont take skyfire, with orks it will be too expensive for what it is worth (you hit on 5+ anyway)

But indeed, lootas in ruins, a unit of traktor kanons, tankbustas in truks, buggys with rocket launchers, bikers work well

Ork skyfire is dirty cheap for how good it is. Traktor cannon are great, and hit on 4s (crewed by BS3 grots).

Bring a stompa and a tide of boyz. Make sure you put a big mek with "Fixer upper" then put a squad of lootas you can make one of them a mek boy, then give the stompa grot riggers...

Nothing can kill it you win.

Stompa could work. Traktor cannons definitely. Bunkers could help too, as the flyrants can't hurt them at range, and will only 1 haywire hit a turn up close.

Something that wouldn't normally happen for most armies, but could if using a greentide army, is that you clog up the board so much that the flyrant cannot move (and it will really have to be clogged up a lot) then he will be forced to change flight mode and come down. After that you are free to charge.

Edit: Oh! Another idea, seeing as you are ignoring most of the rules, just play unbound and proxy a Space Marine Fireraptor. Watch as your massive ap 3 gattlingcannon and missiles take down flyrants, and the quad bolters cause grounding tests and shred infantry everywhere else. Actually the quad bolters would be pretty efficient against the T5 4+ save flyers.

the biggest problem is your not actually playing 40k

forgoing turns and mission objectives is not how 40k is designed or balanced.

100% mega nobs will do the trick.

Lootas and dakka jets dont work for you?

blaktoof wrote:
the biggest problem is your not actually playing 40k

forgoing turns and mission objectives is not how 40k is designed or balanced.

Hes right but my bro is the sam way he wants the whole "no one wins unless one side is wiped from the board

You're playing a game pretty much against the same list a friend of mine likes to use. He plays tournaments, I'm just a casual player.

He brings two flying Hive Tyrants, two Crones, and then sprinkle Exocrines, Tervigons, Zoanthropes, Biovores to taste.

The first game of 7th Edition Orks I played against him, he tabled me in 4 turns, and the only unit I'd been able to kill was a single Crone. Most of the rest of his force didn't need to even be on the board. He only needed the two Tyrants and the two Crones.

So I'll just basically say that your buddy is being a bit of a dick. The goal of playing a 40k game is for BOTH players to have fun. Flying Monstrous Creatures are pretty much a very HARD COUNTER to the entire Ork army. So when he loads up on that many flying creatures, he's already stacking the deck against you, no matter WHAT Orks you bring. Add to that formula that you're also ignoring Objectives (so you can't win at objectives) and game turns (so you can't just try to survive long enough) and he's basically defining the rules of the game to make sure that HE WINS. He's being a dick. He's not interested in whether YOU are having fun. He just wants to smash your face.

BUT I have hope for you. I recently played my buddy's Tyranid army with my Orks, and I won against him. Not only did I win, but I tabled him in 4 turns. I did get a little bit lucky, and he only brought 3 fliers instead of 4. But I'll tell you what I did.

Two CADs:

Warboss in Trukk with 10 Boyz, PK Nob
Warboss in Trukk with 10 Boyz, PK Nob
3 Meganobz in a Trukk
1 Unit of Lobbas

Painboy in Battlewagon with 19 Shoota Boyz, PK Nob
Painboy in Battlewagon with 19 Shoota Boyz, PK Nob
1 Unit of Mek Guns (I took Kustom Mega Kannons, I would have done even better if I'd taken Tracktor Cannons)

Your strategy unfortunately lies in grounding him, which you can hopefully do with the Tracktor Cannons, and normal arms fire. Doubling-up on characters in your Boyz squads also lets you avoid Challenge shenanigans from his Hive Tyrants.

Unfortunately, like I said, flying MCs are a hard counter to Orks. If he rolls well on all his grounding tests, you'll probably lose. When I tabled my opponent, I also had a couple advantages you won't have. MY opponent had to land his Hive Tyrant once in order to claim an objective, because he was LOSING. That let me tear into him some. YOUR opponent won't care about objectives, so he doesn't need to do that.

Good luck. I sympathize with you. You won't be able to table him with Orks unless you roll insanely lucky and he fails all his grounding tests. A normal GAME is definitely winnable though.

Painboy on a bike.

take 2 mobs of 30 shoota boyz, with nob with powerklaw

take 2 painboyz on bikes. they give the units jink [only one model in a unit needs jink for whole unit to benefit] and FnP. Your boyz mobs of 30+1 now have a 4+ cover save and a 5+FnP. Thank me later

this will cost you about 490+150pts= 640pts

not sure how many points you play with, but after that take some traktor kannonz, pref 3 units of 3 with 3 extra grots each and 2 ammo runtz. that should be a total of 450pts.

so running total =1090.

you have a hard anvil he will crash on, the the traktor gunz will average 6-7 hits total spread on 3 targets first turn they fire, 4-5 after that, with a high chance to ground them.

and probably a lot of extra points to play with.

blaktoof wrote:
Painboy on a bike.

take 2 mobs of 30 shoota boyz, with nob with powerklaw

take 2 painboyz on bikes. they give the units jink [only one model in a unit needs jink for whole unit to benefit] and FnP. Your boyz mobs of 30+1 now have a 4+ cover save and a 5+FnP. Thank me later

Perhaps he'll thank you after you read the rules for Jink.

So no, that doesn't work.

Your friend sounds like he is just making it harder for you and easier for him... get a few Dakka jets...call waaaaagh! and let the twinlink extra shots fly!