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To give you the background to this topic. I was trying to put together a fun 1500 list to take on a friend's BA and I wanted to try something different from the normal Farseer on a jetbike as a HQ. While I have the Avatar and Eldred models, I was trying to pick between the various Phoenix lords (PLs) to be my HQ. I'm toying with taking Kandaras & small SS squad + Wraithknight to be the core, supported by guardians and probably warp spiders. Maybe a WS to deliver SS & Kandaras to where they are needed. I could throw in an Avatar to really throw a few big unite into the fray but as I said I want fun, not 4x 5man DA + WS. Think about something around 5/10 on the competitive scale.

Anyway while pondering this earlier it got me thinking about how to rank the PLs in terms of TT ability.

Back in 2ed I used to love Maugan Ra but he doesn't seem that great consider he's a ranged option. Maybe it's having to rely on rending to actually kill things... however fluff wise didn't he go charging into the Eye of Terror to save his homeworld. That's pretty badass!

Fuegan seems a great option against anyone tanks lots of armour (I expect my BA opponent to run 1or2 LR)

Kandaras is the most expensive and infiltrate gives him addition options to sneak about and ambush valuable targets but is he worth the points? I can get an Avatar + 2jetbikes for his points.

I don't have Jain-Zar model but does she suffer from similar problems to the normal Banshees have of actually getting CC without being shot in the face?

Baharroth seems like a lot of points but while blind is great against some armies (orks) again maybe I'm missing something here...

Asurmen, the original. The hand of Asuryan seems like a great force multiplier when giving him up to 3 warlord traits

What are your your thoughts in terms of ranking for both TT and fluff wise?

On the TT Baharroth and Maugan Ra seem to struggle from lack of AP2, which I think really hurts them against most other HQs. Maybe this is why they are the joint cheapest PLs?

Fluff-wise, I think Karandras and Maugan Ra are at the top.

Maugan Ra took on a Leviathan Swarm (by himself) and won.

Karandras took on Arhra in front of all of Arhra's disciples and then slipped away while Arhra rage-killed his followers.

You could always have fun (fluff be damned) and run Drazher with some Incubi and have Karandras join in for fun.

That said you did forget Asurmen.

Asurmen gets my vote. Always front-and-center in my Swordwind lists.

 Happyjew wrote:

Maugan Ra took on a Leviathan Swarm (by himself) and won.
Karandras took on Arhra in front of all of Arhra's disciples and then slipped away while Arhra rage-killed his followers.

Sounds like being secretly written by Matt Ward.

 Happyjew wrote:
That said you did forget Asurmen.

Apologies, I was writing this from memory at 1am, while holding a 12day old baby . I'll update the OP after I've finished the baby's next feed.

Asurmen is the only lord with an invulnerable save.

By my working that makes him the only one worth taking.
But that's just me.

Boniface wrote:
Asurmen is the only lord with an invulnerable save.

By my working that makes him the only one worth taking.
But that's just me.

What about Baharroth?

I'd say baroth is good the blind being secondary he gets acurate deep strike, haywire nades, 2+4++, add a squad of hawks and they get a large blast pack and all have haywires his down side(s) are no ap 2 and a near useless warlord trait.

Baha and Maugen can do some fun things, but are not beatsticks their brothers are.

Karrandas is a superb assassin, but will die to a unit if his unit dies.
Jain Zar can slice well, but seems best in a dedicated cc unit.
Asurmen is a leader who will punk most MEQ/TEQ beatsticks, and can have a 2+ rerollable, to tank quite a lot of non-ap2. Only 3 wounds means not too much, though. Remember, Soulcut probably will fail, but ignores EW!
Feugan can pop a tank before killing. And killing some more.

Irillyth, Shadow Spectre Lord. Cool, unusual aspect, and a Phoenix Lord who sacrficed thousands of years to protect their craft world, plus beautiful model and not too shoddy rules.

Maugan Ra. If there is a bigger badass in 40K, it's not by much. Soloing Tyranid swarms, plunging into the Eye of Terror to retrieve his craft world, and cutting a tyrannic bio-worm in defence of a craft world in half just by standing still.

Nobody rocks the ‘80s hair like Jain Zar though.

Nobody

Clearly it's the super secret Warp Spider one that not even the upper echelons of GW know about.

 King Pariah wrote:
Clearly it's the super secret Warp Spider one that not even the upper echelons of GW know about.

They put him out as a digital Apocalypse formation in 4e, he wasn't impressive.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
Clearly it's the super secret Warp Spider one that not even the upper echelons of GW know about.

They put him out as a digital Apocalypse formation in 4e, he wasn't impressive.

I had no idea anything ever came out for him, huh.

Also going to throw Drazhar in for consideration. Fought five Aspects with one and burned the first Aspect Temple before wandering off to do his own thing, even if his cool rules from the 5e DE book have been taken away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 King Pariah wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
Clearly it's the super secret Warp Spider one that not even the upper echelons of GW know about.

They put him out as a digital Apocalypse formation in 4e, he wasn't impressive.

I had no idea anything ever came out for him, huh.

The implication of the formation was that the Warp Spiders are a younger Aspect and their Phoenix Lord is yet to acquire the weight of age and power that backs the others. The formation was 3+ Warp Spider squads with Exarchs (one of which was the Void Weaver), could be removed and redeployed by Deep Strike whenever you wanted, and they could make a combined attack that hit everyone under a 10" template with one S6/AP- hit for every unit in the formation within 12".

I need to read about Maugan-Ra fighting a tyranid bio-worm. Where can I find more on this story?

Against my friends BA I think Kandaras or Asurman will be the most likely to see a fight. So to mix it up even more, how do you match these up against an Avatar?

While the PLs are like specialised tools and need to be used in the correct way, the Avatar by comparison seems more of a sledgehammer

 Happyjew wrote:

Karandras took on Arhra in front of all of Arhra's disciples and then slipped away while Arhra rage-killed his followers.
.

No, Arhra slipped away and Karandras raged and killed all of Arhra's followers.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Karandras took on Arhra in front of all of Arhra's disciples and then slipped away while Arhra rage-killed his followers.
.

No, Arhra slipped away and Karandras raged and killed all of Arhra's followers.

I'd bet on Drazhar over Karandras in a fight involving the two sects. One's got AP2, the other doesn't.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Karandras took on Arhra in front of all of Arhra's disciples and then slipped away while Arhra rage-killed his followers.
.

No, Arhra slipped away and Karandras raged and killed all of Arhra's followers.

I'd bet on Drazhar over Karandras in a fight involving the two sects. One's got AP2, the other doesn't.

What? They both have ap2. Drazhar has Demiklaives - Single blade, Kandaras has Scorpion's claw

Drazah would win if the fight is turn2 onwards he gets feel no pain kandras has no invun or similar. Be a hell of a fight though.

Agreed. Might also depend who gets the charge, plus Kandaras will have his extra attack at I10, although this is AP-, so isn't likely to do much unless the DE player is rolling lots of 1's